Suggestions on countering 4-2N-3W-1

Hello friends,

First of all, I know there are many threads upon this formation. But whenever I faced with a stronger or an equal opponent playing this I lost the matches, even against weaker teams I could hardly win. I usually use 4-5-1 V against it. Today I used 3W-1-4-2 against it and won the match even though one of my player saw a red but the opponent was an inactive manager. I am thinking of the success possibility of 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2 since they are successful against hexagon.

The formation is this;

DR-DC-DC-DL
MC-MC
AMR-AMC-AML
ST

Tested formations are preferable. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance..

4-4-2*, 4-1-4-1*, 3W-1-5-1*


i prefer 4-1-4-1 to block his am

orders i use: def/through flanks/mixed pass/'low press/ counter and red on ml/mr

3Dw- 2DMC (unless his ST is much better than your DC)
The 2nd DMC can help more vs his AMs instead of the 2nd DC.

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Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos

The 2nd DMC can help more vs his AMs instead of the 2nd DC.

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I don't agree with you here. Of course, you are way more experienced than I am, but for me, on the contrary, second DC helps more than second DMC. I mean, formations with three defenders (3w especially) are weaker in defence than formations with 4 defenders, but they give more posession.

I think the number of defenders by itself has a big influence on the game between simulations. 3w-2n-() may be a deep and nice looking defence formation, but for the game mechanics it is still 3 defenders and 2 midfielders, and it's not that good for your defending efforts than four defenders and DMC. Well, at least it's from my experience.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos

3Dw- 2DMC (unless his ST is much better than your DC)
The 2nd DMC can help more vs his AMs instead of the 2nd DC.

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You mean 3W-2-2W-1, right? No, they are at similar qualities, mine is 124% and his is 125%. Till the match he could be improved, my opponent seems to be a heavy token buyer. Most players of him are lack of SA, this could be the advantage of me by the way. This formation could really work like in the past. Anyway, I will post the result after the match is over. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Buster Keaton

4-4-2*, 4-1-4-1*, 3W-1-5-1*


i prefer 4-1-4-1 to block his am

orders i use: def/through flanks/mixed pass/'low press/ counter and red on ml/mr

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Thank you for your suggestions Buster but instead of 4-4-2, rarely I used these formations with these orders and they have not been worked for me. Maybe I was not lucky, who knows. I will also try 4-4-2 before the match in a friendly.

i ve noticed the def mentality works great with the attackbonus during the match

you can try it in your friendly and see the result

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Originally Posted by Toxcatl

I don't agree with you here. Of course, you are way more experienced than I am, but for me, on the contrary, second DC helps more than second DMC. I mean, formations with three defenders (3w especially) are weaker in defence than formations with 4 defenders, but they give more posession.

I think the number of defenders by itself has a big influence on the game between simulations. 3w-2n-() may be a deep and nice looking defence formation, but for the game mechanics it is still 3 defenders and 2 midfielders, and it's not that good for your defending efforts than four defenders and DMC. Well, at least it's from my experience.

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You might be right in terms of defending Toxcatl, but this formation sometimes against some specific formations works a treat by means of results.

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Originally Posted by Buster Keaton

i ve noticed the def mentality works great with the attackbonus during the match

you can try it in your friendly and see the result

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Self-deception, mate.
Activated attack bonus gives you additional 5%, nothing more, nothing less. Mentality and bonuses have no synergy, and to notice such a tiny bonus you need to gather statistics from a lot of matches, a few dozens at least. You couldn't possibly noticed that from 2 or 3 games.

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Originally Posted by Toxcatl

Self-deception, mate.
Activated attack bonus gives you additional 5%, nothing more, nothing less. Mentality and bonuses have no synergy, and to notice such a tiny bonus you need to gather statistics from a lot of matches, a few dozens at least. You couldn't possibly noticed that from 2 or 3 games.

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when i use the 5% attck i get more scoring opportunity (bonus)

when is use 5% def they hanging more around in the midfield

when i use 5% bal possesion the fitness of players drops faster

This is my experience after the update when i play defensively with counter attack

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buster Keaton

when i use the 5% attck i get more scoring opportunity (bonus)

when is use 5% def they hanging more around in the midfield

when i use 5% bal possesion the fitness of players drops faster

This is my experience after the update when i play defensively with counter attack

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I tried it with an another formation Buster, seems work but not much changes in terms of the results and ratings. I suppose condition is the most important thing in this game unless the qualities are drastically different. So I use condition bonus till 60s or 70s then I go for possession bonus. Generally scores come themselves and it works unless the game decides to troll me but of course formations and tactics are also important factors.

well Toxcatl as I said before in other threads, formation is the 4th important factor for me (luck, quality of the players and presence of the manager are the 3 major).
If you add maybe 7-8, the minors, it's not easy to have a solid conclusion

Two games in the cup vs an opponent from +1 lv.
The quality of the players was about the same.
He has 4-4-1-1 which is very similar with 4-2-3-1 (it's the difference of ML-AML & MR-AMR)
In 1st leg I played with 4-5-1 V and won rather easy.
Oppo manager wasn't there
Attachment 77605

In 2nd leg, oppo man. was there.
I used 2 DMC instead 2 DC.
Still had the control, more shots, bad rates from oppo players, he scored last min. with a penalty (the Luck factor :o )
Attachment 77606

so

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second DC helps more than second DMC. I mean, formations with three defenders (3w especially) are weaker in defence than formations with 4 defenders, but they give more posession.

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I didn't see that

and here is todays asso game
Teams with about the same q (105-110, I got a 7* loan player)
I started with def/counters/flanks/zonal/low/normal
Used two times the defense bonus and in the 2nd half , twice the condition bonus
Attachment 77798

Attachment 77799


* ok, Barcelona isn't in the best form lately :o

**
@Toxcatl was witness as we are in the same group
lol

*** as.man. comments : Giggs scored a very nice goal from penalty
The rest 4 goals came from Beckham.
big lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos

and here is todays asso game
Teams with about the same q (105-110, I got a 7* loan player)
I started with def/counters/flanks/zonal/low/normal
Used two times the defense bonus and in the 2nd half , twice the condition bonus
Attachment 77798

Attachment 77799


* ok, Barcelona isn't in the best form lately :o

**
@Toxcatl was witness as we are in the same group
lol

*** as.man. comments : Giggs scored a very nice goal from penalty
big lol

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Did oppo manager watch the game? I wonder how the engine calculates the bonuses of both managers when both of them watch the game and use the different bonuses.

Nik's formations seems a pretty good counter. Killed my oppo same quality +1 level in cup today 4:0. He wasnt present and had 4 friends watching thou. Had 60 possesion and opo had 9 shot and 0 on target

oppo manager wasn't present.
We have the 2nd leg in half an hour.
I 'll add the new game info

played the 2nd leg and won again.
Oppo was present this time but the game was different.
After the break I think (because there he made subs), switched to 4-4-2 ND.
I noticed that too late as had also two more asso games at that that (with RINO and NIK) but finally it was ok.

another game today in asso
same orders and bonus
Attachment 77884

Attachment 77885


oppo didn't watch (but you can see that his team is well built )
Attachment 77886

Very nice Niko, congrats.
Very helpful.
Just one question, any use of arrows in this tactics?

BTW what was wrong with Ronaldo as he got only 5.0 note? ;-)

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Just one question, any use of arrows in this tactics?

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I leave for later the arrows, as adjustment if needed (down for def., up for wingers)

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BTW what was wrong with Ronaldo as he got only 5.0 note? ;-)

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it's a tanking season for me so Ronaldo is between the bench or as defender.
and he got angry - lol

It worked today Nik, against whom I played 2 days ago and was trolled by the system, which gave simultaneous 2 penalties to oppo. Oppo's DMC missed today's game because of the red card he had seen in the first leg, then today he changed his formation to this. My tactics and formation was exact same with your suggestions. Yet, I am still not fully satisfied as away side by 0-2 since although my 2 key players missed the game I was the 23% stronger side. But I am also happy because the game did not troll me again ( I really felt until 2-0 it was going to make something :) ), and I found my future star who I bought yesterday ( a recommended striker, probably will play 2,3 seasons or even 4,5) who scored 5 goals in last three matches in all three competitions. Today also, he scored 1 by FK. After Way, I think the best I found for 6 seasons. By the way, probably I will face with the opponent in the final of CL for whom I took advice from you. However, he plays mostly with 4-5-1 V and 4-4-2 in these days, and he is no way a token buyer as I realized but a tanker :)

Thank you for your suggestions :)