JULY FOURTH or ANYONE???

I have discussed this formation earlier on July Fourth -Table of Counter Formations - What to use?

I appreciate July Fourth effort to try to put in all available formation BUT unfortunately this formation was neither in his original thread nor this one.

SO FAR NO ONE HAS REPLY!!!

I mention in my posting earlier -

"Help!!!
Can someone help me to counter this 4-1-3-1-1 formation please?

DL-DC-DC-DR
DMC
ML- MC - MR
AMC
ST

I have group with him for past 3 seasons and I cannot seems to get the better of him. Our quality has been about the same. This season, my quality is 46.2 and his is 45.8. He tops the league with 16 wins , 1 draw and 0 lose, scoring 69 goals, conceding 6.

Someone tried 4-1-4-1 formation. I had tried the famous 4-5-1V, or 4-2-2-2, 3W-4-3, 3-2-2-2-1 butterfly, 4-1-3W-2, 3-5-2 and none could beat this formation. The best result I ever achieved is to struggle for a draw despite my quality slightly better than him. This formation has practically cover all areas. It is more offensive than the balanced 4-4-2.
With 2 DC, 1 DMC, 1MC, 1 AMC, 1 ST all forming a straight line, the middle proves very difficult to overcome. With DL,DR, ML,MR, it is easy to defend the flank from AML,AMR in a 4-5-1V formation, while at the same time launching attack with his ML and MR with 1 AMC.

Till NOW, NO ONE HAS THE ANSWER.

Is there anyone who can help? JULY FOURTH?

Home i would go 3-5-2 offside .Away 3142 norm but this is how i would as i play two M PM.

sound tricky formation, did you tried motivated 4141 or mix of it with 451V? don't underestimate the power of arrows

Someone posted in another thread that he tried 4-1-4-1 unsuccessfully. Another team in my league also try 4-1-4-1, losing both matches by 1 and 3 goals. I had tried 4-5-1V with arrow up on my AML and AMR to support my attack, losing once and draw once and it exposed me to more counter-attacks. My mentality is attack, down both flank, mixed passing, no counter, no offside. If I try normal mentality, I will tick forced counter, the rest is the same. The three of us are about the same quality.
He tops the league now with 19 wins, 1 draw, 0 lose, scoring 88 goals and conceding 6.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thon

Home i would go 3-5-2 offside .Away 3142 norm but this is how i would as i play two M PM.

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I have try 3-5-2 before. His flank seems to get the better of this formation. Playing with offside is dangerous especially his ST and AMC matches my defenders quality. This 4-1-3-1-1 formation already seems easier to break clear from counter attacks, so I do not think playing offside is feasible.

Unusual formation but i believe the butterfly could counter it, but NO offside trap

Since your opponent uses an "irregular" formation, I think you should try an irregular one to counter his weakness. My suggestion is modified 4-3-2-1 X-mas Tree, the 3N-1-3W-2AMC-1 formation which looks like this:

--------ST-------
---AMC---AMC---
ML-----MC-----MR
-------DMC-------
---DC--DC--DC---

Firstly, let's see your opponent's formation:

He has a straight line of DMC -MC - AMC - ST, this line seems to be his strength, but it is also his weakness. If your opponent uses short low passes to play the ball from his DMC to ST to reach your penalty box, you can break this simple straightforward line of passes by putting some players in the middle of this line. Therefore, your MC and DMC should handle it easily. If he plays long high balls from DMC/MC to ST, his AMC is redundant, and so your DMC + 3DC should be enough to stop his only one ST.

Moving to his defenders: he always has 5 players in his side of the field, a DMC to protect the center in front of 2DC, plus DR and DL to defense in the flanks. What a defensive formation. You may find yourself difficult to attack his flanks because you have to skip his MR/ML and then DR/DL before passing to your ST. The easier way is going through the middle. Yes, I know he has a DMC. But if you play 2AMC, then your MC - 2AMC - ST should create a small circle of passing to play the ball around his DMC, and therefore should overcome his DMC. Furthermore, you will have total 6 players on his side, 1ST+2AMC+1MC+1MR+1ML, all are very close together and should have more accurate passes if you play short passing.

The last discussion is about his MR/ML: In my opinion, this is his threat to you. the closest player to those wingers are his AMC/MC. If he plays short passing, those winger will pass the ball to the AMC, and you already know how to break his central line of short passing, putting your MC and DMC in the line. If he plays long passing from MR/ML, your DMC + 3DC should be enough to cover your penalty box. However, if he attacks on your flanks and put red arrows on his MR/ML, he will have two "shadow" AMR/AML, which are close to both of his AMC and ST, and your 3DC will be in trouble. That's the reason why you got difficult when using 3-5-2 flat and found that his flanks were better. You can counter his red-arrowed MR/ML by your blue-arrowed MR/ML.

The above formation should be used with short/mixed passing and focus on the middle, pressing whole pitch and counter-attack.

You could try 3N-1-4-2. With mixed passing and mixed focus.

I will face a similar formation tomorrow in champions semifinal.

Though he hasn't an excellent team, just 29.8 quality in level 4 (mine is 38.4), he has knocked out 2 stronger teams (37.8 and 32.4) and reached undefeated the semifinals.

He plays 4-1-3W-2 and has won against 4-2-2-2 hex, 4-3N-1-2,4-3N-2-1, 5-3-2 and 4-4-2.

The only team that managed to win him (2 times) played a 4-5-1V but was very strong (40.5).

I'm going to play with the hexagon away from home and 4-5-1V or 3-4-1-2 at home.
I'll tell you about the result

I would suggest a 3-5-2 variation with 1 DMC.
3-5-2 seems the best way to counter it. In real life I think it's the obvious solution. In top eleven, as well. Just because someone lost by using this it doesn't mean that it's not a short of counter formation. The logic behind this, i think is right.

btw, I am really wondering if all these discussions has any point in top eleven. I shorta believe the game doesn't care tooooo much about your formation.

Hi friend, i used to have the same problem with a player. I started using this (i am a fan of keep your defence to a zero and you get a point at least). The thing is i just won 7-0 today. I play normal, passing mixed (no flanks or center, mixed), press on own haf, exept if i have a strong opponent so then i press on all (i guess u will do the same when you meet your archrival), tackling normal, and the most important thing, because i play counterattack (nomatter what the opposition) i use long ball. I have played dozens of Football Managers and the worst thing you could do to me was to make me play long ball. I prefer short passing (Barcelona style) etc. But with long ball, your Striker and AMC are a constant danger. Now for a few tips. DMR and DML have red arrows cause they cover the whole side and the NEED to help in the attack. I also have red arrow at my AMC (who has a talent as a hidden attacker? I am from Greece and i don't know the translatipon exactly but it's a talent that ONLY AMC's get). I also put a red arrow on one of my MC's and the other one nothing exept if the match is dangerous sto o put blue arrow to make him help my DMC. Also all 3 of my DC's have blue arrows. I don't care about offside trap, i care for them to be back and protect me. If you would like give it a try. Remember u have to have very good DMR-DML and AMC (having good defenders and a DMC doesn't hurt either ;) Hope i helped...
------ST------
-----AMC-----
---MC---MC---
DML---DMC---DMR
---DC--DC--DC---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by influenze

Unusual formation but i believe the butterfly could counter it, but NO offside trap

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I have tried the butterfly formation last season and if I am can recall, I am under constant siege so I switched back to my usual 4-5-1V formation to even the odds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Centurion Nguyen

Since your opponent uses an "irregular" formation, I think you should try an irregular one to counter his weakness. My suggestion is modified 4-3-2-1 X-mas Tree, the 3N-1-3W-2AMC-1 formation which looks like this:

--------ST-------
---AMC---AMC---
ML-----MC-----MR
-------DMC-------
---DC--DC--DC---

Firstly, let's see your opponent's formation:

He has a straight line of DMC -MC - AMC - ST, this line seems to be his strength, but it is also his weakness. If your opponent uses short low passes to play the ball from his DMC to ST to reach your penalty box, you can break this simple straightforward line of passes by putting some players in the middle of this line. Therefore, your MC and DMC should handle it easily. If he plays long high balls from DMC/MC to ST, his AMC is redundant, and so your DMC + 3DC should be enough to stop his only one ST.

Moving to his defenders: he always has 5 players in his side of the field, a DMC to protect the center in front of 2DC, plus DR and DL to defense in the flanks. What a defensive formation. You may find yourself difficult to attack his flanks because you have to skip his MR/ML and then DR/DL before passing to your ST. The easier way is going through the middle. Yes, I know he has a DMC. But if you play 2AMC, then your MC - 2AMC - ST should create a small circle of passing to play the ball around his DMC, and therefore should overcome his DMC. Furthermore, you will have total 6 players on his side, 1ST+2AMC+1MC+1MR+1ML, all are very close together and should have more accurate passes if you play short passing.

The last discussion is about his MR/ML: In my opinion, this is his threat to you. the closest player to those wingers are his AMC/MC. If he plays short passing, those winger will pass the ball to the AMC, and you already know how to break his central line of short passing, putting your MC and DMC in the line. If he plays long passing from MR/ML, your DMC + 3DC should be enough to cover your penalty box. However, if he attacks on your flanks and put red arrows on his MR/ML, he will have two "shadow" AMR/AML, which are close to both of his AMC and ST, and your 3DC will be in trouble. That's the reason why you got difficult when using 3-5-2 flat and found that his flanks were better. You can counter his red-arrowed MR/ML by your blue-arrowed MR/ML.

The above formation should be used with short/mixed passing and focus on the middle, pressing whole pitch and counter-attack.

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Thanks.
Looking at the statistics, he has no particular outstanding player in the top of the top scorer and assist, only shows that everyone in the team share the responsibility.

Looks like I can give it a try next season if I am pair up with this opponent again since I have no chance of playing against him this season.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by July Fourth

You could try 3N-1-4-2. With mixed passing and mixed focus.

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Thanks, was looking towards your advice. I have been a fan of your thread and appreciate your effort in coming up with the table. It has been a great help.

btw this is my team quality and formation Attachment 5846

This is his formation Attachment 5847

Our league standing Attachment 5848

Someone in my cup plays with this formation very sucessfully. It seems to be a 4-4-2 killer.

That 4-1-3W-1-1 player got 1 loss so far, against a 4-2DMC-MC-AMC-2ST (2-3, although he was superior by 2 points: 43.1 vs. 41.0). Finally he went through by changing his formation to 4-1-4-1 in the 2nd leg, the only time he changed his formation so far.

So 4-2DMC-MC-AMC-2ST beat that once, but I don't see it as an ideal counter. July's tip makes more sense to me, but I would go with 3W-1-4-2 instead of the narrow defense to get more wing support.

Maybe weird, but I would try good old 4-4-2 motivated