Fun with OOP (out of position)

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03-01-2015
Cat Harrison

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Fun with OOP (out of position)

You probably have figured out you can play an ST as winger with ok results, but have you tried anything more than 1 position away?

I have a rather strangely skilled DMC, that used to be on my main team (where he rarely got a bad rating playing the attacking of my pair of DMCs) but is now with BvB's punchbag, Domino FC.

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He has been getting DREADFUL ratings, I never got a 5 from him before and hardly ever scored a goal!. Now, Domino FC is playing a similar formation as BvB, but has... slightly less skewed skills on the players since it is a team I do not buy Tokens for, its main role being friendlies with BvB and attempts to win its league. If the players stay long enough (or come from BvB) their skills will be made how I like, but many are fairly even.

So.. I am not going to sell him (he's one of the few I have named for living football players) and he's 5 star at this level..... and 30 y.o.

what to do..?. I tried using him as sub, still got 6's & 5's.

Then one of my players got hurt for long injury and I don't have the reds. SO.... I decide to play him far out of position.
So far he has gotten 7-6-7-7 in his new position, along with 2 goal and an assist.

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I am going to continue him OOP the rest of the Season and see what he does with it long term.

Oh.. you might be wondering where he's playing?

Spoiler

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:D
03-01-2015
spornybol

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i`v been playing my team like this for last 15 games and now unbeaten in 6 games and 3rd in league only 5pts behind 1st
03-01-2015
Cat Harrison

hahahahah that's AWESOME. I bet your league mates hate you. :D
03-01-2015
Buffs Mad

Nice job Cat. On an older OMA team I had a DMC rate 8 as ST with 1 goal and a assist.....but I can't claim responsibility - that was Otto Teem's idea (Assistant Coach).

I did think I might get lucky with an AML/ML as ST but he got injured for 10 days.

I have tried a DMC as AMC with good results but thats probably less surprising. (Might try it again to get some pics ;) )
03-01-2015
Cat Harrison

I find it interesting how well some (really just a few) do better outside of their supposed zone.
03-01-2015
Buffs Mad

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat Harrison

I find it interesting how well some (really just a few) do better outside of their supposed zone.

Yeah, for generated players in particular I try to remember a general sense of how their attributes looked (just in case I break them) - the last opportunity for this was on OMA with a high attacking DR with FK SA in my starting team but unfortunately I lost that team before he got to play MR or AMR.
03-01-2015
khris

Yea, thats so, so interesting lol
I remember the 1st Scout that I bougth, Jamie Rees, that was a DC and was playing as a MC during lot of time when I had lots of injuires 20 seasons ago...
You know I treat my players trying to know about internal programming and we can see that some players are more defesive and some more attacking, doesnt matter the position and if one have time to prove players in friendlies can be surprised really...
03-01-2015
nikolgiorgos

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Really ? Maybe I have some last hope for this player ?
I bought him (top price nordgen) first day, train him, give him sp, bench him, give him sa "one-to-one", NOTHING :(
1 goal in 10 games. All my defenders have more goals than him. Should I put him oop ?
Maybe a DC ... he is tall enough.

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03-01-2015
Cat Harrison

I, of course, would try adding more to his physical.. :) and maybe try him at wing or AMC.
03-01-2015
Steppenwolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos

Really ? Maybe I have some last hope for this player ?
I bought him (top price nordgen) first day, train him, give him sp, bench him, give him sa "one-to-one", NOTHING :(
1 goal in 10 games. All my defenders have more goals than him. Should I put him oop ?
Maybe a DC ... he is tall enough.

Attachment 39266

Let him do set pieces work in some friendly games, you might get surprised...
03-01-2015
khris

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos

Really ? Maybe I have some last hope for this player ?
I bought him (top price nordgen) first day, train him, give him sp, bench him, give him sa "one-to-one", NOTHING :(
1 goal in 10 games. All my defenders have more goals than him. Should I put him oop ?
Maybe a DC ... he is tall enough.

Attachment 39266

Sometimes I do some different changes of positions, for example as you know my AMC is usually a ST or a MC, but sometimes I change the AMC that is an ST, and put this as ST, the ST that is a ST(Hasselbaink always when I do this) to MC, and the MC as AMC, and Hasselbaink as a MC really give me a plus of possession lots of times that help me a lot against better Q. teams is complicated situations..
03-01-2015
spornybol

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i think my league are really hating me now Cat ;) pmsl
03-01-2015
Cat Harrison

Wow rofl!
03-02-2015
Cat Harrison

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today's match:

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He hasn't lost morale, even though he's been getting 7's. I am happy so far. :D
03-02-2015
nikolgiorgos

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Quote:

Let him do set pieces work in some friendly games, you might get surprised...

Hey , no surprise for me :(

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but as Cat said I tried him as AML, he was a little better, with two 7, but not good enough. My wingers score a lot and this guy surely has a scoring problem.
So, either I 'll set him in nego list, to get some T or I 'll wait to see maybe next season if something will change.
I have read a couple of member posts that saying next year their players improved a lot. :p
03-02-2015
spornybol

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standard team position ohh and i won again but this time my oppo was a little stronger and now with 5 games left i`m 2nd in league 1pt behind leaders who i have last game :)

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03-02-2015
Cat Harrison

spornybol you ARE the troll. that's too funny....
03-03-2015
spornybol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat Harrison

spornybol you ARE the troll. that's too funny....

thinking of Changing team name too Troll R Us ;)
03-04-2015
Cat Harrison

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So yesterday's match my DMC as winger got a 6, but he did assist a goal, so that's an ok rating in my book, compared to the 5's he was getting before...
his moral went down a tick though.

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Today's match I (oops) left them in a formation that was for a friendly. Wound up with a draw :( but he went in at half and got a 7. :)
03-04-2015
Buffs Mad

Yesterday I gave my DMC, Billy McNeill, an outing as AMC. He rated 7 but squandered 3 good opportunities and we got mightily trolled.

It does appear that it had a detrimental effect on my ever reliable right winger who slumped to a 5 - although that could have been down to the success my opponent had on the left as performances were down all along my right.

http://i57.tinypic.com/2mm7neu.jpg
03-04-2015
Amane Ito

So you intentionally use illegal formation to make sure that your possession is lower than your opponent, and play defensive counter?
Sounds like a great way to exploit the flawed game engine:D

It can be tactically countered very badly, but very few people know how so... yeah.:cool:
03-04-2015
spornybol

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after a 4-0 win with yet another strange formation i`m now 9 games unbeaten and won my last 6 games can i win the league this way ?? and i leaders last game of the season :)
03-04-2015
Steppenwolf

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos

Hey , no surprise for me :(

but as Cat said I tried him as AML, he was a little better, with two 7, but not good enough. My wingers score a lot and this guy surely has a scoring problem.
So, either I 'll set him in nego list, to get some T or I 'll wait to see maybe next season if something will change.
I have read a couple of member posts that saying next year their players improved a lot. :p

I was patient with this guy... In first 2 seasons he scored only 8 goals in 40 games... Since the he scored 67 goals in 96 games...

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03-04-2015
Buffs Mad

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos

Really ? Maybe I have some last hope for this player ?
I bought him (top price nordgen) first day, train him, give him sp, bench him, give him sa "one-to-one", NOTHING :(
1 goal in 10 games. All my defenders have more goals than him. Should I put him oop ?
Maybe a DC ... he is tall enough.

On the topic of SAs, its not rocket science. Give SAs to players for things they are often doing to improve the outcome.

If a guy is not getting into 1on1 positions then 1on1 Striker won't work.

Golden Rule is an SA is supposed to trigger a beneficial effect when the event that gets the benefit occurs.

Add SS to a guy that shoots; add AD to a guy that heads, add 1on1 ST to a guy that gets in 1on1 positions OR a guy playing in a system that produces 1on1 situations etc etc

An SA is not a magic potion or a straw to be clutched at. ;)
03-04-2015
nikolgiorgos

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Quote:

On the topic of SAs, its not rocket science. Give SAs to players for things they are often doing to improve the outcome.

Well that’s a theory, possibly the right one but not sure cause the comment we have from devs is
“Whenever a specialized player has the opportunity to use his ability, he’ll perform exceedingly well thanks to his focused training.”
What Are Special Abilities? - Top Eleven be a Football Manager

Anyway, I just want a trigger to change the “bad” program (out of form) of this player.
So things I could do and tried was :
To train him and give him sp
To change the balance of his abilities (Attack/Defense/M&P)
To bench him for a few days and use him again
To give him a special ability
To put him in some easy or friendly games
To put him playing oop - to be on topic :)
The only thing that remains I believe, is to wait for the next season to try him again and after that to sell him
Too bad, he is my first nordgen that was such a failure :(

But if I ‘ll see him playing superb in his next team …

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03-04-2015
Buffs Mad

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos

Well that’s a theory, possibly the right one but not sure cause the comment we have from devs is
“Whenever a specialized player has the opportunity to use his ability, he’ll perform exceedingly well thanks to his focused training.”
What Are Special Abilities? - Top Eleven be a Football Manager

I understand what you mean, but its not a theory ;) The bit you quoted is probably intended to mean the same as I said but its a poor translation - poor wording from Nordeus can sometimes confuse the meaning in Nordeus statements just like in their many statements on arrows ;).

There was a better explanation in the last Ask the Devs stuff. There was also a titbit in it regarding how much difference it made.

Just apply the more simple scenario with FK SA to the others i.e. FK SA is triggered when a FK is taken.

Training an SA on a player is not necessarily wrong and it could've worked but I wanted to confirm the situation on when it applied so that the best choice can be made with a greater chance of success. #targettedtraining ;)

Oop can ofc be good to find a role that a player can succeed at rather than bin him - saved me a few T in OMA a couple of seasons ago to get a failed MC playing well at DMC and a low Q 'off the boil' ST as AMR but sometimes there needs to be an acceptance that a player is a dud or if he was once good then that he's been broken.