Top Eleven Changes?

Ok guys I am going to request some help from you all on this one.

I noticed today that the free kicks on the stats show up as inverse of the number of fouls. While a useless stat, it shows they did something to the game.

THEN I noticed that on all 3 double corners today I got unusual commentary, and none scored.

So I request to the forum, if you see a double corner, please post here what the commentary was. I am going to analyze it and will be able to tell if they fixed the double corner glitch. I am very confident that I know why it was causing such a high % of goals, and will be able to tell from the comments if they fixed it.
So everyone, please help me out here, and I'll post my findings when I get enough data.

Thanks!


I'll explain the double corner glitch to you all, my theory to it anyway.

This is how i would program something like Top Eleven, in fact I've written programs that do very similar things to T11, so I have reason to believe this is accurate.

I'll try to make it understandable to non programmers.

Top Eleven uses an event tree, example:

Level zero:
Your Striker gets the ball: Go to level 1

Level 1:
Event selected (He plays a short pass for example)
He does something -- If successful, go to level 2, If fails, return to level 0

Level 2:
Event Selected (MC gets the ball in a likely situation)
Event happens -- if successful, go to level 3, if fail, go to level 0

and so on.

So a message like "But the DC anticipates it and wins the ball" would trigger the return to level 0.
The event variable, which i'll just call EVENT, is changed each time.

EVENT = 0
ST decides to dribble -- Fails: EVENT = 0
EVENT = 0
MC plays a short pass -- Success: EVENT + 1
Event = 1
ST gets the ball in a likely situation -- Success: EVENT + 1
Event = 2
He's now 1 on 1 with the goal keeper! -- Fail: EVENT = 0
But the goalie tips it over the bar! Great save by GK!

This is how a basic even tree works. Now let's look at corners and why Double Corner glitch exists.

To score a corner : (I will use CEVENT as the trigger)
CEVENT + 1 (Now 1: This triggers a corner)
MC kicks a weak center pass -- Success: CEVENT + 1 (now 2)
It's a chance! but DC's aerial defense dominates. -- Fail: CEVENT = 0

CEVENT + 1 (Now 1: Corner triggered)
MC kicks a weak center pass -- Success: CEVENT + 1 (Now 2)
ST with the header! -- Success: CEVENT + 1 (Now 3)
But it goes over! -- Fail: CEVENT = 0 OR GOAL: CEVENT = 0
The tree is complete and we restart at 0

Notice when CEVENT = 2, the ball reaches the striker's head, then level 3 decides the final result

Now here is my theory to what a double corner is actually doing. I suspect this because I have made this same error in event tree programming.

CEVENT + 1 (Corner triggered CEVENT = 1)
MC kicks a weak center pass
DC reacted clumsily and gives up another corner (restart the cycle)
CEVENT + 1 (Corner trigger CEVENT = 2) UHOH!! CEVENT wasn't reset!
Onto the head of ST! (CEVENT + 1, now 3 skipping the previous level)
GOAL!!!!

So what happened here exactly?
When a corner is triggered, CEVENT needs to be 1 + something, my theory is this does not reset on the 2nd corner, so instead of 1 + something, it's 1 + something + something, which shoots it down the event tree.

So instead of selecting a level 1 event (a result of the pass) it selects a level 2 event (a result of the header).

Got it? No? Good!
:)


So what is the solution? Add a line of code to reset CEVENT back to 0 (or 1, whatever the trigger number is) after the 2nd corner initiates. Now it will look like this:

CEVENT = 1
MC kicks a weak center pass CEVENT + 1
DR takes no risk and kicks it into the corner !!!CEVENT = 1!!! (This is the new code)
MC kicks a weak center pass: CEVENT + 1 (Now 1 + 1 instead of 2 + 1)

Yes, to those of you who have posted multiple rants about double corners, the fix really could have been this simple....

I had two double corners against me. My keeper saved both.:rolleyes:

I had a double corner against me today - my keeper made a super save from the first and the opposition striker knocked his header over the bar for the second.

If you can please provide the actual commentary, not just the result.

It was from analyzing the commentary that i figured out the glitch, so I will need to do the same in order to see if it's really gone.

It does certainly look like they fixed it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BridgeGoth

If you can please provide the actual commentary, not just the result.

It was from analyzing the commentary that i figured out the glitch, so I will need to do the same in order to see if it's really gone.

It does certainly look like they fixed it.

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It has been fixed for a while now :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gert Funck

It has been fixed for a while now :)

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I can absolutely assure you it had not. My ops still scored on about 90% of them, and the commentary was still consistent with the glitch, assuming my theory was correct.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BridgeGoth

I can absolutely assure you it had not. My ops still scored on about 90% of them, and the commentary was still consistent with the glitch, assuming my theory was correct.

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mine has this season been nearer 70% or so, so on my server it is fixed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gert Funck

mine has this season been nearer 70% or so, so on my server it is fixed

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They are slightly less, but that is most likely the result of other factors, such as improved goal keeping, or adjusting the success ratio of certain events.

I explained in the OP what is likely going on with them just now.

I'm with Gert on that - my double-corner success is nearer 50% this season, according to the commented ones. There are more different commentary phrases being used, too.

I'm not sure that anything in this game can be analysed to the nth degree - the matches are played and a result comes out the other end - there's not much more we can do, except not rely on certain situations having a specific result.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BridgeGoth

If you can please provide the actual commentary, not just the result.

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Pretty difficult to do seeing as the matches were played before we saw your thread... :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talisman

I'm with Gert on that - my double-corner success is nearer 50% this season, according to the commented ones. There are more different commentary phrases being used, too.

I'm not sure that anything in this game can be analysed to the nth degree - the matches are played and a result comes out the other end - there's not much more we can do, except not rely on certain situations having a specific result.

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I've actually been analyzing the commentary for a while, trying to construct the event tree, which I mentioned in the OP. I'm actually getting very close to being able to explain a LOT of this game.

really ? I 'm waiting in suspense about this :p
Unfortunately I also played my games tonight but I 'll have it on my mind.
In one game, a player I subbed,wasn't pleasant about that.
He got injured few minutes ago
lol

Quote:

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I'm actually getting very close to being able to explain a LOT of this game.

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Sorry my friend but I don't think that this is possible. Don't misunderstand me, I love playing this game but it's far from being flawless and being explainable.
A (?) part is random. Same in comments - but I 'm willing to help you, so I post a double corner save (after a free kick) I had today.

Aerial domination :o
Attachment 45538

Great game from Hadji :confused:
He played 5' min, lost the ball and was complaining to the referee - lol
Attachment 45539

Ortiz should get a second yellow card earlier than 65' min - but I love this comment :cool:
Attachment 45543

Thanks.

From the evidence I have collected I can conclude the double corner glitch is FIXED. Not partially, or toned down, it's actually gone.

As for explaining the game, I am not saying it's flawless only that events can be explained.

For example I created a program years ago which almost certainly uses the same structure as Top Eleven.
Instead of playing soccer, it had players run an obstacle course. I used variables at different points to control the action. This is how games of this type work. You use control variables to send you to different parts of the program, or reset it back to zero.

Example in my program, as long as my control variable was equal to 1, the program continued to run, and would continue the course. If a player fell or ran out of time, pass would be set to 0 and it would kick it out and reset the program to the selection screen.
During the run, different events could happen, such as commentary.
It was all % based, and I had a success cap of 99.75%. In other words. .25% of the time even the strongest player would fail the easiest part of the course, or 1 out of 400 attempts. A success cap is mandatory for these kinds of programs in order to avoid predictability and to make it more interesting. This is why your 8 star striker with 1 on 1 ability misses his counter when 1 on 1 vs the 1 star goalie sometimes.

For Top Eleven, it calculates who does something, possibly based on possession, with a cap at 80%, and starts the Event Tree cycle which I mentioned in the OP.
While I couldn't tell you specifically what numbers go into which equations without seeing the code, this is almost certainly the way it worked. My program also had things like weather and form programmed in, it's really easy to do. In fact form took me like 6 lines of code to write and I could even do it for each specific rating on each player. Maybe his arm was a little sore so his strength was down, but he could still run just as fast.

So yeah... T11 isn't that complex in the grand scheme of things.

I don't think the commentary has a direct correlation to the match events.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cat Harrison

I don't think the commentary has a direct correlation to the match events.

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The way you do it is the events are decided, then it selects from a list of commentary consistent with that event. It's also easy to program something like that to show highlights.

Match Event 1 happens
Event results stored in variables
If found interesting, go to a subroutine which turns it into commentary, if not, continue on to Match event 2.

The only hard part would be setting the trigger to what is "interesting."

Notice how often stats change without any commentary?
This would logically explain this:

Match event 1 happens
MC got the ball, shoots get deflected out for corner
ST passes it in, Foul on the other ST
This is boring, next...

a few minutes pass on the game clock, your Corners, fouls and shots increase by 1. Would be really easy to code too.
If instead the game triggers that this was a highlight, it then "reads" the variables stored in the arrays (multi dimensional storages of data), in English.

Once this cycle completes, it resets to zero and runs the next event, looking for the next highlight to display.

I hadn't noticed the free kicks being an inverse of fouls against but I did see the FK's had gone up to a realistic looking level rather than only counting those in a threatening position.

I am not sure how I feel about the change. While it was stupid to see 1-2 FK's in a game with 15 fouls I don't like that it made it more difficult to track the effectiveness of my FK specialist(s).

If they were going to make this change they should have added a category for FK's from dangerous area??


Has anyone else seen their CK's become less effective the past 2 seasons or is it just me? I have a LW/LAM with over 100 career assists in going on 4 seasons but his first 2 seasons he was getting 35-40 and now its been cut in half the past 2 seasons. The talent around him hasn't gotten any worse, There hasn't been a massive drop in goals scored in general although the past week or so my offense has slumped worse than any point in 5 seasons.

I just seem to be getting more goals from open play and less from set pieces without any real change in tactics, talent vs opp talent ratio, etc.



The last week since these few changes started popping up has me very worried though. I was on pace to shatter my single season goal record and now I won't come very close unless I avg 7 per game the rest of the way. I have been shutout twice in this span when that hadn't happened a single time since season 2. (almost 3 full seasons).

There has been an across the board drop in form like I have never seen. I went from having just over half my players getting 8/9 every game to getting 2-3 and 1-2 6's where there had been maybe one 6 every 2-3 games.

Attachment 45767

I defended a double corner today and it allowed my defender to head it out of danger.

Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

Had it today i scored from it! :cool:
Had two double corners against me recently, 2 goals!

soooo :rolleyes:

I had some time to view my res. team in action :)

Got dbl corner recently:

Attachment 45938

:cool::rolleyes:

edit: i dont remember how i failed at creating jerseys but anyway its an ugly away jersey :( dont want create for new one (coz its 35T team) :eek: