4-3-1-2 (with a twist)

Hi,

Realise that there's been a separate thread started for counter formations, but I've not been able to find what I need there, and hence posting here.

I met this fella in the CL semi-finals, and I would say, on average his defence quality is better than my attackers, but his attackers quality is slightly less than my defense.

In any case, first leg was just played and he got me 3-1 down although I had slightly more possession (52-48) and slightly more shots on goal (20-15). I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice on how to turn this around in my home leg and what formation I should play.

He is playing:

DL---DC---DC---DR
---MC---MC---MC----
--AML----------------
------ST-----ST------

Very weird and lop-sided formation, but it seems to have worked for him. First leg, I attacked him on the flanks but to no avail because his defense is absolutely solid.

His 3 goals all came from his MCs long shots, if that's info that can help.

Anyone has any ideas?

Your dead right about making a thread about this formation because its Asymmetical and the guides don't cover these type of formations because the usage of these is very low. My take on this formation is you will need right hand cover for his AML and also your going to need to win the midfield battles as well to try and stop them from scoring long range shots, A wierd 4-5-1 could be a choice here

-----ST-----
----AMC----
-MC-MC-MC-
-----------DMR
DL-DC---DC-DR

I think your best efforts on this formation is to try and play through the middle while your defence should be able to deal with the Attacking threat, their midfielders won win balls as easy either, I'd try and play attacking with long balls, your 3-1 down and at home so you should have greater possession in the 2nd leg.

Formation edited to include leftsided player to make it valid. Silly me.

I actually went with a 4-3-2-1 in the first leg, with normal mentality and counter-attacking down the flanks. Wondering if that was too offensive for an away leg?

It was 3 MCs, 1 AML and 1 AMR and 1 ST. I'm just wondering if I play 4-1-3W-2 and put the 2 widemen to blue arrows, whether that would help as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by July Fourth

Your dead right about making a thread about this formation because its Asymmetical and the guides don't cover these type of formations because the usage of these is very low. My take on this formation is you will need right hand cover for his AML and also your going to need to win the midfield battles as well to try and stop them from scoring long range shots, A wierd 4-5-1 could be a choice here

-----ST-----
----AMC----
-MC-MC-MC-
-----------DMR
--DC-DC-DC-DR

I think your best efforts on this formation is to try and play through the middle while your defence should be able to deal with the Attacking threat, their midfielders won win balls as easy either, I'd try and play attacking with long balls, your 3-1 down and at home so you should have greater possession in the 2nd leg.

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No left sided player there. I would still go with the butterfly or WM. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joeleyf

I actually went with a 4-3-2-1 in the first leg, with normal mentality and counter-attacking down the flanks. Wondering if that was too offensive for an away leg?

It was 3 MCs, 1 AML and 1 AMR and 1 ST. I'm just wondering if I play 4-1-3W-2 and put the 2 widemen to blue arrows, whether that would help as well.

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Some guy I played recently played a strange 3-4-3 formation, it was 3DC but it was also 3MC with a ML.. but i still played my normal tactic and won anyways, Asymmetrical formations have to have some sort of imbalance some where and you need to find it, I wonder in your last game your opponent played with 3 red arrows on his midfield, making him dangerous attacking, counter-attacking and long balls look best for this, there is a "all out attack" option if you need it, since you say your defenders are stronger than his strikers, 3-5-2 or 3-4-1-2 could also be options with red arrows on the wings.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Potemy

No left sided player there. I would still go with the butterfly or WM. :p

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Whoops lol. Well Spotted, Eyes like a hawk, that formation would be no good at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Potemy

No left sided player there. I would still go with the butterfly or WM. :p

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Sorry but what does the butterfly or WM look like here?

-------ST----------|--------ST----------
AML----------AMR--|AML------------AMR
----MC----MC------|----MC-----MC-----
DML----------DMR--|----DMC---DMC----
----DC-DC-DC------|DL------DC------DR

Butterfly and the WM. :)

There's also a formation I use like the WM, but both AMs are tucked in to AMC. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Potemy

-------ST----------|--------ST----------
AML----------AMR--|AML------------AMR
----MC----MC------|----MC-----MC-----
DML----------DMR--|----DMC---DMC----
----DC-DC-DC------|DL------DC------DR

Butterfly and the WM. :)

There's also a formation I use like the WM, but both AMs are tucked in to AMC. :)

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Thanks for the tips. Unfortunately I have no DMR or DML, nor do I have a 2nd DMC :(

i have the same problem as a very strange formation came up in my last games.(i will bring the post from the other thread to discuss it here)

--------ST---------ST------
--------------------------AMR
ML-- -----MC-MC -------
DML--------------------------
--------DC--DC--DC---------

-----ST--------ST------
----------------------AMR
ML-- --MC-MC --------
DL- DC-DC- DC---------



Have u seen something like that?? The opponent plays almost all the times like that(first formation) when he plays away,and the second formation when he plays at home.

He is first in his league !!! and we play semi Cup with him.He has a nice team,a lot of the average of the level,but he has much worst than mine.He has beaten much better team in the 1/8 of Cup and I don’t want to be his next victim

Now he has this one…

-----ST--------ST------
----------------------AMR
ML-MC-MC -MC-------
DL- DC----- DC--------

Any suggestions?? Has he found a bug or something in the program and he takes advantage of it ??
And he finally played the 3rd formation

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July Fourth suggested me the above




Play with AML to exploit the vacant right back slot and play a DL to stop the AMR...

----ST---ST----
AML------------
---MC MC-MC---
-----------------
DL--DC--DC--DR

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I decided (first game his home) to play 4-1(DMC)-4-1,and used red arrows to my DL-ML to take adv of his weak side.

Nothing dramatic happened ..final 1-1,he scored first
i had 57-43 position but i couldn't beat him.(i was watching the game ,he no),so lets say 50-50,if i wasnt.
used Normal(change to attack when he scored),left flank focus attack,no of side,counter attack,mixed pass.

As for his squad has old MCs 28-29-33 years old,with medium quality,his defence are young 21-23-20,medium+ quality,and his attack medium- 22-33..the ML 33 and the AMR 22.
From his squad i can understand a mixed young and old players,so i imagine that he sometimes log in makes some moves and the team goes by the automatic pilot..
so as i said i have much better team 19.4 his 25.4 me,i have adv in any player we can compare,but still didnt beat him.

He has to score as i can qualify with 0-0 to the final,but i really want to know how to beat this formation.
I havent decided yet how i will set my team,(15.30 today the game).....so if u have any suggestions,we can discuss them.

have a nice morning

For the OP
He has no flank cover. His strength is the three MC's supplying is off set AMC but with zonal marking there is no real issues there.
You say your defenders are better than his strikers but you have only one DMC.
The obvious one would be to counter him with the standard 4-1-2-2-1 V formation.
Moving players one square when they are already in contact with another opposing player only creates weaknesses in your own attack and defence, even with asymmetrical formations they still need balance.
Your limitations in defence only having one DM gives you two option in IMO.
As above standard V or as he has no flank attack 3DC's the V MF adding either another AMC or striker.
The extra AMC would give you a Narrow diamond MF and with the AML/R pressuring and covering his DL/DR your striker would be one v one most times, supported by the AMC with up arrows would add even more of a threat.
As he would have a man spare in MC because your DMC is covering his AMC instead of the MC centre, add down arrows to your AML or centre AMC if you play one, just play defensive with No Counter and No O/S is the easiest option while forcing counter is a bit more of a gamble, one that could be worth taking if you need a goal.
The second would be to play a narrow 3N-1-4-1-1 down or up arrows could be added to MR/ML if you wanted to be more defensive played in normal mentality.

I would put pressure all over the field and play attacking mixed. After 2 min you can already see what it does

20' bf game and he has that as i mentioned

-----ST--------ST------
----------------------AMR
ML-MC-MC -MC-------
DL- DC----- DC--------


i go with potemy's advice WM

|--------ST----------
|AML------------AMR
|----MC-----MC-----
|----DMC---DMC----
|DL------DC------DR

My DMC's are pretty good my AML also ,i will beat him ;)

good luck to me

win 2-1:D:D
62-38 position but very tough win..
my AML was man of the game as the wing was free for him..
FINALLLL i am coming..

tx for the advices mates ,many txs to potemy as i choose his advice..

cheersssssss

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dimdim1

win 2-1:D:D
62-38 position but very tough win..
my AML was man of the game as the wing was free for him..
FINALLLL i am coming..

tx for the advices mates ,many txs to potemy as i choose his advice..

cheersssssss

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Hey well done! and enjoy the final too! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by July Fourth

Hey well done! and enjoy the final too! :)

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tytytytytyty..
one more final for me in the season as i am almost in the cl final(won3-0 in the first game)
my league is finished 12p ahead the 2cond..

so pretty well as far as a rookie manager:)

You're welcome, mate. :) IMO variations of 3-2-2-2-1 can beat any formation, you'll have all his attackers at least triple marked. :D Sometimes the central MC is a problem if you play with more wide midfielders, though, for example the butterfly. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Accyrover

For the OP
He has no flank cover. His strength is the three MC's supplying is off set AMC but with zonal marking there is no real issues there.
You say your defenders are better than his strikers but you have only one DMC.
The obvious one would be to counter him with the standard 4-1-2-2-1 V formation.
Moving players one square when they are already in contact with another opposing player only creates weaknesses in your own attack and defence, even with asymmetrical formations they still need balance.
Your limitations in defence only having one DM gives you two option in IMO.
As above standard V or as he has no flank attack 3DC's the V MF adding either another AMC or striker.
The extra AMC would give you a Narrow diamond MF and with the AML/R pressuring and covering his DL/DR your striker would be one v one most times, supported by the AMC with up arrows would add even more of a threat.
As he would have a man spare in MC because your DMC is covering his AMC instead of the MC centre, add down arrows to your AML or centre AMC if you play one, just play defensive with No Counter and No O/S is the easiest option while forcing counter is a bit more of a gamble, one that could be worth taking if you need a goal.
The second would be to play a narrow 3N-1-4-1-1 down or up arrows could be added to MR/ML if you wanted to be more defensive played in normal mentality.

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Thanks much for the detailed analysis, Accy. I'll probably go with the 3N-V MF and let you guys know how it goes. I was actually pretty disappointed in the first leg 4-3-2-1 my AMR/AML could not cause his defence a single problem. Let's hope next leg is different.

Hi just telling you that I using this formation 4-5-1 with the AMR,cause I have very good player on that position,so is good to read this how someone coul counter my formation:cool:

There are other ways also but that will keep for another day. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joeleyf

Thanks much for the detailed analysis, Accy. I'll probably go with the 3N-V MF and let you guys know how it goes. I was actually pretty disappointed in the first leg 4-3-2-1 my AMR/AML could not cause his defence a single problem. Let's hope next leg is different.

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Don't read to much into the AML/R not doing well, it was more than likely the game engine having a bad day in your office.
Both my AMR amd AML are top GS this season over the three strikers, it's not who scores that counts as long as you score more than him.:)

Gave it as good as I could...but could only manage a 2-1 win. Ah well....Next season then :)

Thanks for everyone's help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joeleyf

Gave it as good as I could...but could only manage a 2-1 win. Ah well....Next season then :)

Thanks for everyone's help.

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Ah well, It's the feedback thats the most important part that goes into helping us suggest formations and orders better for other players in the near future.

Are you suggesting that some people also suffer with the same lack strikers effectiveness.
Who has similar problem?