Lost Champions League Final, would appreciate dissection from the experts

[Stephen Lam]

Hi all, I just came off what started off as a strong start to a champions league final, that ended in absolute disaster. I need help to figure out what I did wrong.

I started out in a 4-5-1 Flat formation against a classic 4-4-2. Possession vs counterattack.

In the 11th minute, I scored off a corner. The opposition reacted by matching my 4-5-1 Flat formation. In response, seeing that he was attempting to play longer passes, I dropped one MC into DMC (his natural position anyway). Things were so far going well.

This is where everything went terribly south. I conceded a yellow card penalty and then a second goal, then another yellow card penalty (he missed). Both yellows were from my midfielders.

My team ended up with ratings in the FIVES, that is how bad they played. This in spite of the fact that I had a slight (1.5) higher average starting 11 than my opponent. I can accept losing a match against someone who is close in level to me. But for my players to collectively crap themselves in such an embarrassing manner is mind boggling. I can only conclude that I used bad reaction tactics but I can't understand what.

In contrast, his entire midfield line ended the game in the 8's and 9's, even though they weren't stronger than my midfield.

Please enlighten me! Thank you!

My tactics: Normal stance, mixed passing, counter off, hard tackling (4-5-1 flat -> 4-1-4-1)

His tactics(my educated guess): Counterattack, long balls, then switched to mixed balls (4-4-2 -> 4-5-1 flat)

Stats (i'm on the right)

[yayannpaul]

Hard Tackling increases chances of yellow cards.

[Stephen Lam]

Hard Tackling increases chances of yellow cards.

I'm aware of that, but based on how bad my entire team played against a team I'm not weaker than, surely that wasn't the true problem?

[Cloverfield]

I cannot really emphasize enough that going to a final with hard tackling especially from beginning is really really really bad decision.
I never use hard tackling.
There are some refs in some games that give easy yellow-red cards. If you had fallen in such case then you would play with 10 players from 10'.
Your fouls were 16 against 10 , maybe your AM also pointed out this that you should stop giving so many fouls to the oppo.

Also I see that your defenders have no aerial abality or defensive wall.
No defensive wall but you chose to give so many fouls, bad decision again.(although you did not conceded a free kick)
Check you oppo's defenders they all have SAs, that could help him.
Maybe next season you could work on that.

So short story long.
Hard tackling was bad decision and it seems key factor especially for the penalties.
You both played for 90' minutes with evenly counter formations.
Oppo had few more shots on target which increased his chance to score.

Also I doubt the "Things were so far going well."
Don't trust live animations. Trust statistics and ratings.
What were the stats at that point? What were your players ratings?
Maybe things were getting bad you just did not check stats.

[Stephen Lam]

I cannot really emphasize enough that going to a final with hard tackling especially from beginning is really really really bad decision.
I never use hard tackling.
There are some refs in some games that give easy yellow-red cards. If you had fallen in such case then you would play with 10 players from 10'.
Your fouls were 16 against 10 , maybe your AM also pointed out this that you should stop giving so many fouls to the oppo.

Also I see that your defenders have no aerial abality or defensive wall.
No defensive wall but you chose to give so many fouls, bad decision again.(although you did not conceded a free kick)
Check you oppo's defenders they all have SAs, that could help him.
Maybe next season you could work on that.

So short story long.
Hard tackling was bad decision and it seems key factor especially for the penalties.
You both played for 90' minutes with evenly counter formations.
Oppo had few more shots on target which increased his chance to score.

Also I doubt the "Things were so far going well."
Don't trust live animations. Trust statistics and ratings.
What were the stats at that point? What were your players ratings?
Maybe things were getting bad you just did not check stats.

Thanks for the feedback Clover:

- Tackling: I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. You say you never go with hard tackling, but I normally go with it because I've discovered that even just normal tackling results in a lot more goals conceded even if I have good defenders and a theoretically good formation from my research. I suppose I should take your advice and try normal tackling the next time I'm in a final but in normal play I would probably stick with hard.

- Special Abilities: It's true that my players have no Wall SA. However my defenders all rate with skills in the 140-150%+ range. I would think that should be good enough...is it not? Are SA's that critical to success?

- Regarding the stats at the time I opened the scoring: Yes my players were rating solid high 6's to mid 7's at the time I scored and statistically I had a bit more in the shots department. This is why I feel like besides hard tackling, some other tactics change I made in response to my opponent's switch to 4-5-1 Flat was bad, and I'm hoping someone with experience can tell me what that is.

[pcmacdaniel]

Mind if I ask, what your training bonuses, win bonus and condition was at kickoff?

This is just for the sake of trying to eliminate variables besides tactics that can impact match results.

[Stephen Lam]

Mind if I ask, what your training bonuses, win bonus and condition was at kickoff?

This is just for the sake of trying to eliminate variables besides tactics that can impact match results.

Thanks pcmacdaniel, I was at max bonus and condition, as well as max morale. I primarily used Possession as my active game bonus.

[Cloverfield]

- Tackling: I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. You say you never go with hard tackling, but I normally go with it because I've discovered that even just normal tackling results in a lot more goals conceded even if I have good defenders and a theoretically good formation from my research. I suppose I should take your advice and try normal tackling the next time I'm in a final but in normal play I would probably stick with hard.

It is quite a risk hard tackling, and I do not think it is the key factor of not conceding the goal.
You could try this against an unbeatable oppo where risks can be taken, but not against an even oppo.
Tell us in general what are your defense tacticts and usual formations you use, maybe it is something else that causes the conceded goals

- Special Abilities: It's true that my players have no Wall SA. However my defenders all rate with skills in the 140-150%+ range. I would think that should be good enough...is it not? Are SA's that critical to success?

I cannot say it is critical, but I see the SA icon blinking many times during corners and free kicks of an oppo.
Especially defensive walls reduce the probability of a free kick.
You wont stop conceding such goals but they will get reduced.
At least for me it did help.
But if you cannot afford it or cant find it in a market, then yes it is a good enhancement but not a necessity.

- Regarding the stats at the time I opened the scoring: Yes my players were rating solid high 6's to mid 7's at the time I scored and statistically I had a bit more in the shots department. This is why I feel like besides hard tackling, some other tactics change I made in response to my opponent's switch to 4-5-1 Flat was bad, and I'm hoping someone with experience can tell me what that is.

I do not believe it was a matter of tactics as you used both balanced and countering formations.
In general the match from statistics, ratings (at least when game was draw) and formations seems could end to a draw.
This means that minor factors start playing each role.
That's why I believe hard tackling was the minor-key factor for this game, and the 2 penalties is a good proof for that

[Cletomendez]

The only problem was, in my opinion, the hard tackling. The penalties show this very well. Thats why i hate Hard tackling

[Ardil]

Hi I'm playing a team with a 4-1-2-2 formation. What's the best formation to play against this team. Also this team is stronger than mine.