I dont understand this game and i am angry!!!

[Tactician]

well, but in the real world, you don't put a ST on... will you get red cards or penalty...surely not.... what happen if i like to defense...like...putting 3DC with DL and DR, 3 DMC and 2 MC... without st, amc or amr/l.... so you mean should be getting penalty or red card???

Apparently, in the past, there was the illegal formation system in this game. The penalties imposed were apparently a reduction in possession. Some of it still appear to be there.

The question is why should there be a penalty (whatever sort of penalty) just because you use of a formation that has at the back say only 2DC, followed by DMR and DML, or like you say a formation that has no ST. In fact, this make no sense, since playing with an extra midfielder instead of a ST might give you more ball possession, and also playing with DMR and DML might give you more ball possession. Penalties should be there only when the formation or orders you have selected are not appropriate for facing your next opponent. That is, reasons should be tactical or in terms of football, not just because a user did not make use of an ST or did not make use of at least 3 defenders..

Of course if a team plays a formation where all the players (except the GK) are on the side, then there should be a penalty, but in that case, the formation should classified as tactically inappropriate, and the penalty imposed should be in relation to what is tactically wrong in that formation.

[Moi]

I understand. Here is what I have to say.

2. Quality is only one of the factors that affect the outcomes. Tactics is another, and there are suspected hidden effects (percentage efficiency, form, fixed matches and so on). What you may see visually in terms of quality might not be what there is actually. There is a sort of illusion.

3. There are some games that appear that their outcomes have been fixed or pre-determined. For instance, for a specific game, you will lose or get a draw, but you will not win no matter what you do, unless you have extreme superiority in quality (as high as around 180% or above). This may be the case for a knock-out rounds too, where you are likely to be knocked-out no matter what you do as manager.

5. This game functions a lot like a casino game. Its main aim is to make money out of people due to their weaknesses or imperfections. This include the want to win, addiction and so on.

Just as a side note about what you said, that's totally wrong. There are NO fixed matches or outcomes in Top Eleven, all matches are simulated by the game engine taking into account hundreds of variables.

Some results may make more sense to you than others, but not understanding why you lost a game you thought you would win -because you had much better players- doesn't mean the game had a fixed outcome for it

We may don't know why something happened in the game, or some events / results can make no sense at all. But just because you don't know why did it go that way doesn't mean it's rigged or some casino-plan to make you spend money.

There are many many many variables that affect every match, every event of the match, specially how your tactics and formation work with your rival's tactics and formations. As you said, it's not all about quality, like in real life football. And just because you don't have the full picture about what was going on, does not imply it's a pre-fixed outcome.

[Moi]

Apparently, in the past, there was the illegal formation system in this game. The penalties imposed were apparently a reduction in possession. Some of it still appear to be there.

The question is why should there be a penalty (whatever sort of penalty) just because you use of a formation that has at the back say only 2DC, followed by DMR and DML, or like you say a formation that has no ST. In fact, this make no sense, since playing with an extra midfielder instead of a ST might give you more ball possession, and also playing with DMR and DML might give you more ball possession. Penalties should be there only when the formation or orders you have selected are not appropriate for facing your next opponent. That is, reasons should be tactical or in terms of football, not just because a user did not make use of an ST or did not make use of at least 3 defenders..

Of course if a team plays a formation where all the players (except the GK) are on the side, then there should be a penalty, but in that case, the formation should classified as tactically inappropriate, and the penalty imposed should be in relation to what is tactically wrong in that formation.

That's exactly how it works now. Tere's no 20%/80% possession penalty for strange formations anymore, now every strange formation will be penalized in relation to its weaknessess. For example, if you put no midfielders at all, probably your possession will suffer a lot. If you don't put any defenders, your defense will be penalized (even further than for simply not having any defender). As you said, the penalty imposed IS in relation to what is tactically wrong in that formation. And it only happens in extreme strange formations.

[Tactician]

Ok. Moi, I need a favour of yours. Can you tell me (honestly) what other significant variables are there to decide the outcome of a match other than quality and tactics (and may be lately the bonuses)? Please tell me how much randomness is also involved in this game. I have suspected a lot of things. If you say there are no pre-determined or fixed results, that is before the match actually played, ok, but I still suspect something fishy going on for the case of a few matches, especially when it comes to knock-out legs. I need some explanations from someone that knows really how things are decided in this game.

In addition to this, can you say something for the following questions?

Is there something that deliberately (or has been programmed to) affects the form of the players during a particular period in the season or simply just for a day or a match?

Is there something like: percentage efficiency of players, that is the actual quality of a particular may not necessarily be as the one display. For example, a 5 star player may be in fact internally be a 4 star player.

Can you tell me why my team is having so many injuries this season? My players have been always in very good condition (dark green, most of time above 95-99%) before each match. What is even more strange is there is how the injuries occur, what kind of injuries are they in terms of time out, and how the engine 'makes' my team receive yellow cards so that I don't get the red pack after each match.

If you can't say some things to the public, I understand. But, you can still use the P.M option.

If you want, I send you details of 2 matches that I recently played, where I suspect something fishy going on. Maybe you or someone else form Nordeus can explain to me why the final outcome was as such.

[Moi]

Ok. Moi
Is there something that deliberately (or has been programmed to) affects the form of the players during a particular period in the season or simply just for a day or a match?

No

Is there something like: percentage efficiency of players, that is the actual quality of a particular may not necessarily be as the one display. For example, a 5 star player may be in fact internally be a 4 star player.

No

Can you tell me why my team is having so many injuries this season? My players have been always in very good condition (dark green, most of time above 95-99%) before each match. What is even more strange is there is how the injuries occur, what kind of injuries are they in terms of time out, and how the engine 'makes' my team receive yellow cards so that I don't get the red pack after each match.

I can tell you there's no prefixed plan for yellow cards or injuries. As in real life, you will have more injuries in one season and less on others, and same for yellow cards.

There's always a chance to have an injury, of course injuries are less likely to happen if you have your players in good shape, but like in real life, that's not a guarantee you won't get any injury. It also comes up to your opponents' tactics (on tackling, mainly). We've currently limited injuries to 1 per match (it could be more in the past), also Scouts and recently recovered players won't get injuried over the next matches. There will always be seasons with more injuries and seasons with less.

Our mind tends to remember events that annoy us, so when an injury happens (or some injuries) you will remember it like "OMG last season was terrible with injuries". However, probably some seasons ago you had almost no injuries in the whole month, but that's less likely to be remembered. Is it true that over the last 3-4 months, you had at least one season with almost no injuries -or just a couple- in the whole month?

If you want, I send you details of 2 matches that I recently played, where I suspect something fishy going on. Maybe you or someone else form Nordeus can explain to me why the final outcome was as such.

Feel free to send me these matches, however I can't disclose why specific things happen, as it's managers work to figure out how specific tactics, formations and other variables work with their rivals' ones. I may be able to give you some guesses about what looks like as an outsider, but can't go further than that.

[Tactician]

Moi, what is happening in terms of injuries for my team is not acceptable. I have put another post in the Excessive Injuries thread in the Bugs section. Have a look. I think that there is something wrong.

I have had way too much injuries this season, many of them were long ones (6-12 days), and the stranger things are how they occur and how the game gives my players yellow cards in matches to prevent me from getting those needed red packs during those bad periods.

Take into consideration that I have already spent money buying enough tokens for this season, some of which I used to buy packs. I cannot afford to buy more tokens for now as the credit card account is 'exhausted' and I have no more money left to add some money in that account. I am still a student (not earning a salary) and the amount of money I can spend is limited. There are no offers working for my region. So, basically, the game is putting me in difficult situations a lot this season.

I was forced to sell one good player because I could not heal him. I cannot keep on doing things like that. Someone has to have a look what is going on.

[Tactician]

Those are the matches that I'm speaking of.
http://forum.topeleven.com/top-eleve...tml#post401397

If you want more details like what were the quality of the teams, what formations that were involved, what were the ratings of the players, and so on, you ask, and I will send those via P.M.

[Ahlony Wong]

Of course if a team plays a formation where all the players (except the GK) are on the side, then there should be a penalty, but in that case, the formation should classified as tactically inappropriate, and the penalty imposed should be in relation to what is tactically wrong in that formation.

well...i think you have a wrong idea ...this is football... well... what you mean all players are on the side?? you mean if i put all player in the right side and my players are only stick on right side and leave the left side open??? NO, this is football, even you DC will run to the opposite box to pass or shot...they are and they always will, even that is not their primary role. and let say i put AML, ML, AML and DL, next to it I put AMC, MC, DMC, DC and than i put 1 ST in the left front and another DC in the right (or whatever position to put on the right)
yes, 9 of 10 of the players are all at the left "side", but that won't mean the players are not going to run to the right side of the field... (and MC is MC...no matter i put in left side or right side..they are "MC", this same a DMC DC AMC and ST as well) so, why penalty?? i think the only penalty is like Moi said...no defense at all (like 3st, 3amc, 4 middlefield) should have a penalty since no defense at all ... i mean it is depend on the formation (but this is only happen to extreme strange formations like Moi said) ...so putting the player at the side is not a illegal formation

well... and then stick back to what i replied to topic... he was talking to have RED card and penalties (remember what i said...it is with a "s" ) ...
first of all, red card is only depend on what players do on the field, not depend on the formation... so, this is a wrong thinking...
secondary, he said "penalties"... i believe he is talking "one on one penalty face the GK" because it is with a "s" and he mention "punishment and red card" right before penalties ... ( and well, what formation can have more than 1 penalty in relation to what is tactically wrong in that formation...) that was what i was saying "do you know how red card and penalty works in football" to the topic...

[Tactician]

well...i think you have a wrong idea ...this is football... well... what you mean all players are on the side?? you mean if i put all player in the right side and my players are only stick on right side and leave the left side open??? NO, this is football, even you DC will run to the opposite box to pass or shot...they are and they always will, even that is not their primary role. and let say i put AML, ML, AML and DL, next to it I put AMC, MC, DMC, DC and than i put 1 ST in the left front and another DC in the right (or whatever position to put on the right)
yes, 9 of 10 of the players are all at the left "side", but that won't mean the players are not going to run to the right side of the field... (and MC is MC...no matter i put in left side or right side..they are "MC", this same a DMC DC AMC and ST as well) so, why penalty?? i think the only penalty is like Moi said...no defense at all (like 3st, 3amc, 4 middlefield) should have a penalty since no defense at all ... i mean it is depend on the formation (but this is only happen to extreme strange formations like Moi said) ...so putting the player at the side is not a illegal formation

well... and then stick back to what i replied to topic... he was talking to have RED card and penalties (remember what i said...it is with a "s" ) ...
first of all, red card is only depend on what players do on the field, not depend on the formation... so, this is a wrong thinking...
secondary, he said "penalties"... i believe he is talking "one on one penalty face the GK" because it is with a "s" and he mention "punishment and red card" right before penalties ... ( and well, what formation can have more than 1 penalty in relation to what is tactically wrong in that formation...) that was what i was saying "do you know how red card and penalty works in football" to the topic...

No, it is you who misunderstood me. I know what you mean, and yes players are not fixed about their positions. What I meant is if you face an opponent using a formation like GK-DL-DR-DML-DMR-ML-MR-AML-AMR-ST, then an appropriate penalty should apply in respect to what is wrong in there. If you think it that it is not possible to face such formations, just ask other 'old' users here and they will tell you up to what kind of strange formations they have faced.

Based on your post, I can say that you have underestimated me. I probably know much more about football and tactics than you. Take into consideration that you might meet anyone, with any kind of experience, knowledge, qualifications and so on on internet. Do not underestimate people. I have watched and played a lot of football, have learnt many things about football tactics and training, and also managed teams (university level) in real life. In terms of video games, I have played both management games and player games before this game.

What is there or what is asked to be done in this game is very very simple as compared to what is there in real life. There can't be much comparison between those two in many terms. Football is much much more complicated and difficult than many people might think of, especially those that only know about football video games or about what they see on the internet or on television. In terms of video games itself, it can be said that this game is very simple. Try to play FM 2015 or 2016, you will see yourself. Some people might think that T11 has much football sense or is what football management is. This is not the case. T11 is very far from a proper football management simulation game, but it provides something extra that makes it fun to play.

P.S: Your reply is kind of inappropriate; either you misunderstood me or you underestimated me or both. I suggest you to read (or re-read) well all my posts here and try to understand what I meant.

[Ahlony Wong]

No, it is you who misunderstood me. I know what you mean, and yes players are not fixed about their positions. What I meant is if you face an opponent using a formation like GK-DL-DR-DML-DMR-ML-MR-AML-AMR-ST, then an appropriate penalty should apply in respect to what is wrong in there. If you think it that it is not possible to face such formations, just ask other 'old' users here and they will tell you up to what kind of strange formations they have faced.

Based on your post, I can say that you have underestimated me. I probably know much more about football and tactics than you. Take into consideration that you might meet anyone, with any kind of experience, knowledge, qualifications and so on on internet. Do not underestimate people. I have watched and played a lot of football, have learnt many things about football tactics and training, and also managed teams (university level) in real life. In terms of video games, I have played both management games and player games before this game.

What is there or what is asked to be done in this game is very very simple as compared to what is there in real life. There can't be much comparison between those two in many terms. Football is much much more complicated and difficult than many people might think of, especially those that only know about football video games or about what they see on the internet or on television. In terms of video games itself, it can be said that this game is very simple. Try to play FM 2015 or 2016, you will see yourself. Some people might think that T11 has much football sense or is what football management is. This is not the case. T11 is very far from a proper football management simulation game, but it provides something extra that makes it fun to play.

P.S: Your reply is kind of inappropriate; either you misunderstood me or you underestimated me or both. I suggest you to read (or re-read) well all my posts here and try to understand what I meant.

well... i am not trying to argue, but first of all, i hope you 「take back 」what you said " Do not underestimate people" so, you can "underestimate" me? (you have done all things in real life or watch whatever people do, means you are better than me???) better watch what you said ok?

also, i didn't "underestimate" anyone, this is "base on " what you think, and you create this "underestimate" theory. not what i mean.

btw, i know what you talking about "GK-DL-DR-DML-DMR-ML-MR-AML-AMR-ST," which is also "side", but "yes players are not fixed about their positions" all were what you said (and yes, i said too) so, you mean DL, DML ML AML only running at the side and only stick to the side, not going to move?? so you need "appropriate penalty" ?? (and if you want to make a point here, go back and re-read what i am talking about this, ok?)

and i am replying to the topic at the first place (don't you see what i am saying in the last post?? if you really don't see that, you are the one should be go back and "re-read" what i am talking about, ok?? )

"Do not underestimate people" that is what you said, so you have whatever in you real life is not meaning you understand better than me, ok?

end with discussing with you, my first respond is replying to the topic, and again if you don't understand what i am talking about, you should go back and re-read it and don't underestimate and misunderstand me~ have a good day.