Game engine change?

[USARABAT]

Did you notice any changes in the engine result recently ( this season) ?

strange / unfair results .... lower scoring rate ....

is this change for good or bad ?

share your ideas

[pcmacdaniel]

It changed towards the end of last season. It's probably intended to prevent mutants from being OP (ex. Friendly trick and upselling).

I wouldn't call the results 100% unfair. The engine is still favoring correct tactics, but the skills matter less.

Problematic here is two things:

1. Most managers don't understand how to setup correctly from a tactical perspective.

2. A manager that is random tactically will cause major problems for a skilled tactican when skills dont matter. A manager that looks for patterns and understands counter-formations and counter-orders will be looking for a pattern that does not exist.

Same applies to a change in the pattern. For example I beat Team A in semi-final of CL and quarter-final of cup in last two seasons. This season we play in cup final and he changes the system and it catches me off-guard. The less the skills matter, less protection for token buyers/farmers when these scenarios arise.

[nikolgiorgos]

two threads merged
sorry @USARABAT but it's the same subject and conversation
Read also previous posts about it

but the skills matter less.

don't know how simple is to do that with this game engine (I mean the version we have the last 2-3 years with Unity)
and don't know how reliable is a conclusion about this.
I mean, there are so many factors that differ from season to season

[pcmacdaniel]

Nik, have you been playing in platinum for assoc?

It's obvious something has changed. Just from my association alone, in the last 3 months we've witnessed 2 vietnamese mutant associations finish 4th. One of them entered the tourney #91 in the world and still got 4th. And both have to lost to an opposing assoc that is very average quality wise. That assoc was top team viet nam, I think bunzo's assoc played them a couple weeks ago.

As for my team, 11-4-5 in last 20 assoc. 32-3-4 in previous 39 assoc games (all platinum). Faced more strong opponents in that 39 game stretch as well. Tactically, my system still seems to be working, as I can still spot the impact of my changes in the ratings. But far less room for error. If my reads are slow or I get confused, the opponent is much more likely to punish me for it. Same thing occurred for a few weeks immediately after the new training roled out then it stopped until the beach competition update.

Unfortunately, if one is not in platinum and does not have mutant players it's less noticeable. Below Gold 1, it rare to have mutant vs. mutant matchups. And in CL and cup, we aren't really tested often until late in the season. If at lower levels, might not be tested at all.

It's enough to convince me that what has happened is a mutant nerf (either a flatlining of the skills or weighted less) which has a side effect of hurting those without mutants, such as scout buyers. I'm guessing nordeus doesn't have a clue what to about the mutant problem.

[nikolgiorgos]

Nik, have you been playing in platinum for assoc?

yes, one of my teams is in asso with some Greek forum friends.
We don't have mutants so it's like an elevator, 1-2 seasons platinum, 1-2 seasons gold
Before 3-4 weeks we played vs no26, Brazilian-Russian team and lost easily 33-3

It's enough to convince me that what has happened is a mutant nerf

remember that its some time now, where many people (not only hardcore platinum players) upgrading their players with friendlies.
Maybe not pure mutants but players like him can resist more and do some damage

[Tactician]

It changed towards the end of last season. It's probably intended to prevent mutants from being OP (ex. Friendly trick and upselling).

I wouldn't call the results 100% unfair. The engine is still favoring correct tactics, but the skills matter less.

Problematic here is two things:

1. Most managers don't understand how to setup correctly from a tactical perspective.

2. A manager that is random tactically will cause major problems for a skilled tactican when skills dont matter. A manager that looks for patterns and understands counter-formations and counter-orders will be looking for a pattern that does not exist.

Same applies to a change in the pattern. For example I beat Team A in semi-final of CL and quarter-final of cup in last two seasons. This season we play in cup final and he changes the system and it catches me off-guard. The less the skills matter, less protection for token buyers/farmers when these scenarios arise.

I think the most important questions should be: are opposing teams winning by skills of the manager and the team or just randomly (or even by using or switching to **** tactics and formations or even by doing nothing during the match); do the opponents really meant or set up things for how they occurred or those occurred because something else in the game decided so?

As a returning manager of many seasons ago, so far I can say that this game has gone even worst be it in terms of tactics, formations, football sense or even the basics of a football manager game such a proper user interface and so on. I won't say all those are my final conclusions for the recent versions of the game but surely some things went worst in this game.

[Tactician]

As a manager of a football team in a football management game, I have done the following.

I have bought players, that according to the information provided, many of which should be very good players or even become world class players.
I have been training my players appropriately at least to a decent extent, and also maintaining them in good condition.
I have been training players regularly for in-game bonuses.
I have been motivating the players with win match bonuses.
I have been scouting the opponents and making adjustments.
I have been attending nearly all matches and making adjustments according to logic and past experiences.


I can say that I have not been satisfied enough from what I have been seeing as the players performance, the results, the game response to the manager's actions and so on, but the team made it to the Cup semi final (lost) and Super League Final (lost) and it is probably going to win the league.

Briefly, I have been doing what a football manager should be doing, but if some other managers been doing less or even much less but winning more or getting eye-catching results regularly, then this is a concern and at least something is wrong.

[mcdoomer]

Nik, have you been playing in platinum for assoc?

It's obvious something has changed. Just from my association alone, in the last 3 months we've witnessed 2 vietnamese mutant associations finish 4th. One of them entered the tourney #91 in the world and still got 4th. And both have to lost to an opposing assoc that is very average quality wise. That assoc was top team viet nam, I think bunzo's assoc played them a couple weeks ago.

As for my team, 11-4-5 in last 20 assoc. 32-3-4 in previous 39 assoc games (all platinum). Faced more strong opponents in that 39 game stretch as well. Tactically, my system still seems to be working, as I can still spot the impact of my changes in the ratings. But far less room for error. If my reads are slow or I get confused, the opponent is much more likely to punish me for it. Same thing occurred for a few weeks immediately after the new training roled out then it stopped until the beach competition update.

Unfortunately, if one is not in platinum and does not have mutant players it's less noticeable. Below Gold 1, it rare to have mutant vs. mutant matchups. And in CL and cup, we aren't really tested often until late in the season. If at lower levels, might not be tested at all.

It's enough to convince me that what has happened is a mutant nerf (either a flatlining of the skills or weighted less) which has a side effect of hurting those without mutants, such as scout buyers. I'm guessing nordeus doesn't have a clue what to about the mutant problem.

Not that its proof of anything, but for the first time in the last 11 seasons my family asso wont be Platinum. Missed it by 9 points. Last 2 seasons were very atypical and most of our players are scout buys or "natural mutants" (2-3 star players with top skills at 200-250+ and rest as 1%, just because they are 28+ yo and been in the team since academy). We had more 4th places last 2 seasons than in the previous 10. We were never 4th for a very very long time, and since June results are being crappier with no good reason, as we keep winning trophies otherwise. Just asso results being hurt.

[madflo19]

Normal "mutants" (1% grey skills and 150%-300% white skills) are still doing the job in association.


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[pcmacdaniel]

I think the most important questions should be: are opposing teams winning by skills of the manager and the team or just randomly (or even by using or switching to **** tactics and formations or even by doing nothing during the match); do the opponents really meant or set up things for how they occurred or those occurred because something else in the game decided so?

As a returning manager of many seasons ago, so far I can say that this game has gone even worst be it in terms of tactics, formations, football sense or even the basics of a football manager game such a proper user interface and so on. I won't say all those are my final conclusions for the recent versions of the game but surely some things went worst in this game.

It's the bolded thing I think. I don't think the engine knows what logically is or isn't a ****e tactic.