Does anybody think we can influence the game? (part 2) Let's make some experiments.

Hi, you can read how I reached to this in the first part of the thread.

Yesterday I started experiments to prove that we influence or not influence the game.
I was already eliminated from CL and cup, thanks to an unexplainable against lower unattended teams. Today it was the last game. Me 72%, (using only subs), him 32%. The game started as always when the engine define that you will draw, you attack and attack with only aimless shots against a team that surprisely has the fastest defense. The score finished 0-0 after 45. Then on the second half, I changed dramatically the formation aiming to loose, MCs to DCs, DR to AMR, ST to DMC, and viceversa. Nothing changed, and I draw 1-1. I'll do more experiments and put here the results, if this happens frequently, then my theory it's true: Top eleven make us believe that we influence the game but we don't.:rolleyes:

If anybody wants to follow me with these experiments, you're free to post.

See you around!

I haven’t done any experiments yet but I’m afraid that you are right.
I think that the outcome of a game/season is already fixed before it starts. The number of games I lose against weaker opponents is just ridiculous.

Here we go again...

Not to make it a spam tho...you do influence a game if you want to prove it pick inactive player who is somewhat around your skill level and play 200-300 friendlies with him
In 100 just schedule them and dont do anything...dont even watch them
In next 100 watch them all and do the same changes everygame like changing same things at same time(halftime)
And than compare results...
Actually dont change anything just watch games and click bonuses

If you want changes do the 3rd 100 games with watching +making changes ...you could be doing bad changes and that would bring the result close to first 100 matches sample...

Even 100 matches per sample might be low sample but probably enaugh big to see the difference by luck factor being put on minimum...

The match scenario is decided before the match starts when you can't do more changes in the squad.... and yes, it is influenciable inside some predetermined parameters.
The scenario determines the impact of all players 11+subs and different positions/lines and orders of dominance inside the match and of course the scenario can be in "absolute favour of the other team" and then we can perfectly see that despite change all the mentalities, focus right, focus left, focus centre and sub' it is against us for a poor rating of chances in our favour by default.

This is for you @khris as you love the game scenario xD
1st leg SL,i lost 2-0 away(i didn't want to go through as this comp. is disturbing my friendlies lol) no one was watching ,i had only 3 strong players in,the rest were low star and exhausted.
2nd leg i had my best players in,but i didn't watch the match again,i just wanted to see what will happen, my oppo was there.
I won 4-2,scored 2 goals in the first 5 minutes lol
The game give me 2pk's,2 oppo players sent off in the 1st half but boosted oppo gk and his team efficiency.
This was really a nice scenario hahaha

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...cd279da3d9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f4d0de28ae.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e66831e166.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7106b0f279.jpg

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by madflo19

This is for you @khris as you love the game scenario xD
1st leg SL,i lost 2-0 away(i didn't want to go through as this comp. is disturbing my friendlies lol) no one was watching ,i had only 3 strong players in,the rest were low star and exhausted.
2nd leg i had my best players in,but i didn't watch the match again,i just wanted to see what will happen, my oppo was there.
I won 4-2,scored 2 goals in the first 5 minutes lol
The game give me 2pk's,2 oppo players sent off in the 1st half but boosted oppo gk and his team efficiency.
This was really a nice scenario hahaha

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...cd279da3d9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f4d0de28ae.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e66831e166.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7106b0f279.jpg

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

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You know very well that the red cards cause a hole in the assignation of the 1vs1's and this happens since years ago.. xD and this situation reflect the starting thesis of ..2014?? that said red card = oppo' score double... all ar e double things, double positions, doble names in chat, doube subs and this should be the 1st double thing never known lol

There have been situations where I've made a key tactical change and the match has turned on its head, for example changing to through the middle instead of down the flanks, or short instead of long/mixed passing. So I have little belief in the 'the match is predetermined' theory.

I think it's more a set of stages where there's an electronic die roll or coin toss, and a series of poor rolls or tosses means the match slowly runs away from you. Conversely, a poor start and a series of good rolls or tosses means that a the match turns around on its own. Any tactical/personnel changes made by the manager who is present produces a 'modifier' to the die roll or coin toss to make various situations less or more likely, thus influencing the course of the match. This theory is boosted by the extended pauses I've noticed in the matchplay at around the 28th, 51st and 81st minutes, when the game seems to be 'thinking' before processing the next part of the match.

The 'Troll' result, the incidence of poor-Q 'away' teams winning Cup/CL Finals and my particular bugbear, the 6th Round CL Group match 'shock result' can be put down to an underlying bug in the match setup, maybe a '-' instead of a '+' (or vice versa) in the match setup routine, which gives the managerless poor-Q team an artificial boost when the match starts, which is then exacerbated by poor die rolls or coin tosses during the match.

Discuss... :)

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Originally Posted by talisman

There have been situations where I've made a key tactical change and the match has turned on its head, for example changing to through the middle instead of down the flanks, or short instead of long/mixed passing. So I have little belief in the 'the match is predetermined' theory.

I think it's more a set of stages where there's an electronic die roll or coin toss, and a series of poor rolls or tosses means the match slowly runs away from you. Conversely, a poor start and a series of good rolls or tosses means that a the match turns around on its own. Any tactical/personnel changes made by the manager who is present produces a 'modifier' to the die roll or coin toss to make various situations less or more likely, thus influencing the course of the match. This theory is boosted by the extended pauses I've noticed in the matchplay at around the 28th, 51st and 81st minutes, when the game seems to be 'thinking' before processing the next part of the match.

The 'Troll' result, the incidence of poor-Q 'away' teams winning Cup/CL Finals and my particular bugbear, the 6th Round CL Group match 'shock result' can be put down to an underlying bug in the match setup, maybe a '-' instead of a '+' (or vice versa) in the match setup routine, which gives the managerless poor-Q team an artificial boost when the match starts, which is then exacerbated by poor die rolls or coin tosses during the match.

Discuss... :)

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you don't have an away team in a cup final as it is at a neutral venue

I like it when my opponent starts on the front foot but doesn't score, if you weather an early storm the match nearly always turns around in your favour

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Originally Posted by Reece p FC

you don't have an away team in a cup final as it is at a neutral venue

I like it when my opponent starts on the front foot but doesn't score, if you weather an early storm the match nearly always turns around in your favour

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Is that all you can come up with? Why do you think I put the 'away in quote marks? I know it's a neutral venue, the 'away' team in this case is the one that cones from the bottom half of the draw and is in the bottom slot in the final grid. But I guess you didn't know that...

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Originally Posted by talisman

Is that all you can come up with? Why do you think I put the 'away in quote marks? I know it's a neutral venue, the 'away' team in this case is the one that cones from the bottom half of the draw and is in the bottom slot in the final grid. But I guess you didn't know that...

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no that wasn't all, there was a 2nd sentence there.

The difference in condition loss between hard pressing and man to man compared to low pressing and zonal is significant. If you wanted to prove whether any changes made after the match kicks off actually took effect or whether matches were completely predetermined, a simple test where you compared condition loss of games where you did the whole match with hard press and man to man against matches started with hard press and man to man but changed to low press and zonal as soon as the match begins would do the trick.

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Originally Posted by The_Savage_1

The difference in condition loss between hard pressing and man to man compared to low pressing and zonal is significant. If you wanted to prove whether any changes made after the match kicks off actually took effect or whether matches were completely predetermined, a simple test where you compared condition loss of games where you did the whole match with hard press and man to man against matches started with hard press and man to man but changed to low press and zonal as soon as the match begins would do the trick.

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Ive been asking this recently, because those who played in 2015 remember the bonuses we had associated in exchange of condition,,, so Ive been trying togather more info to know what happenned with these as 3 months later the training system was introduced and we had the 4 10% bonuses...

But thats the reason why I always play MtM and HIgh press...

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Originally Posted by khris

Ive been asking this recently, because those who played in 2015 remember the bonuses we had associated in exchange of condition,,, so Ive been trying togather more info to know what happenned with these as 3 months later the training system was introduced and we had the 4 10% bonuses...

But thats the reason why I always play MtM and HIgh press...

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Mtm and Zonal is a big debate, I played both and won with both. What i can say is:

- Mtm marking if used properly can really be game breaking , but need too much work for the manager as you need to adapt always your formation depending on oppo or else you will get a big lose.

-Zonal marking is the best beacause your team will defend as a "collective" relying more on the offside trap to compensate possible formation flaws ( like a player not marked , pacy players that cannot be man marked. ect... ), you can play any formation with this.

Regarding what The Savage says there is no sure advantage if you use low press/zonal vs hard press , you can stay deep -low press and defend but that doesn't mean you will win , if oppo manage to close you on your half and didn't let you build up from the back you are going to lose. All depends on tactics.

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Originally Posted by IImaestroII

Mtm and Zonal is a big debate, I played both and won with both. What i can say is:

- Mtm marking if used properly can really be game breaking , but need too much work for the manager as you need to adapt always your formation depending on oppo or else you will get a big lose.

-Zonal marking is the best beacause your team will defend as a "collective" relying more on the offside trap to compensate possible formation flaws ( like a player not marked , pacy players that cannot be man marked. ect... ), you can play any formation with this.

Regarding what The Savage says there is no sure advantage if you use low press/zonal vs hard press , you can stay deep -low press and defend but that doesn't mean you will win , if oppo manage to close you on your half and didn't let you build up from the back you are going to lose. All depends on tactics.

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No no... if it hasn't been touched or modifyed, there was a attack bonus in the hard press option, in exchange of condition, and a defense bonus, in MtM too in exchange of condition.... and both options activated are "always a advantadge in some sense"...

If Im right there isn't a calibration in where to play Zonal gives an specific advantadge... this does not exist, it is only something that affect visualy, but the advantadge "if I'm right and nothing has changed" is activating the MtM and, too the high press.

hmm... the truth is that I know that, training bonuses are applied randomly to a part of players of da team... but I do not remember if these 2 options affect fully the team or are random... I think it worked like the training bonuses but not sure... still but, it can be tesed so easy.... later I'll open a trhead to see if these options work in same way as the 4 training bonuses... this should be easy to spot.

Yes we can influence the match, time ago i played a important cl match at home , we played both attacking hard press and we had same quality( me 9% stronger ), but i draw 1-1 the match at home. While watching the match i noticed that he pressed better that me,and i asked my self, why? Then i noticed from the stats that he made more fouls than me ( like 15-8 ) so during the away match i switched to hard tackling (he was winning 1-0) and magic, he didn't touch the ball till the end and i won 1-4 , that means i really go easy on him at home and he was really aggressive. From there i started to take always a look at the number of fouls during matches, and other stats like pass.acc % and etc...

So yes , you can influence the match if you are a good observer

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Originally Posted by khris

No no... if it hasn't been touched or modifyed, there was a attack bonus in the hard press option, in exchange of condition, and a defense bonus, in MtM too in exchange of condition.... and both options activated are "always a advantadge in some sense"...

If Im right there isn't a calibration in where to play Zonal gives an specific advantadge... this does not exist, it is only something that affect visualy, but the advantadge "if I'm right and nothing has changed" is activating the MtM and, too the high press.

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So you are saying that is like a "give it all you have got " option? i have played some matches switching between mtm and zonal and sometimes is better sometimes is worse. From my experience against equal/ stronger teams i played zonal , beacause with rigid man marking if oppo strikers are faster or good dribblers they will beat your defenders, the only way ( or the only weapon is the offside trap ). I use some times MtM against small teams in other to reduce their chances (that are already low due to quality difference ) so to prevent possible troll matches

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Originally Posted by IImaestroII

So you are saying that is like a "give it all you have got " option? i have played some matches switching between mtm and zonal and sometimes is better sometimes is worse. From my experience against equal/ stronger teams i played zonal , beacause with rigid man marking if oppo strikers are faster or good dribblers they will beat your defenders, the only way ( or the only weapon is the offside trap ). I use some times MtM against small teams in other to reduce their chances (that are already low due to quality difference ) so to prevent possible troll matches

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" i played zonal , beacause with rigid man marking if oppo strikers are faster or good dribblers they will beat your defenders,"

This is a theory, affected for the visual perception -of course players move different in the live animations switching orders as, switching passing options- but here "if I can confirm that these 2 options, are associated to the 2 bonuses" it is not the same, cause the scenario can make work better long passing or short, but in "all cases despite the visual effect, players should work slightly better, pressing hard, and with the MtM.....

without anydoubt, and despite the "visual effect" that makes one think in the logical behavior of the players, right? cause as you say, zonal should move the line more equally... "in theory" but in this case, as it was set, it is the same to have this theory, or the theory that, as visually a 7* ST is better than a 5*, and this is not true, we know very well that a 5* can score 40 goals and the 7* can act like invisible man the 50% of the season...

and thats the same, "seems logic" to say that, "zonal keeps more players in a zone" and "in theory, they should keep the line to provoke offsides easily true? but IMO, nope. This game don't goes too far away and isn't too much detalied in a "minimalistic way" to make this little option impact in big scale...


The only thing that can occur, is that if both options do not use more condition than zonal and low pressure, than, yes, then should exist a "signal" that means we need to use these options, as when u use long/mixed passing and u lose the bal 3 consecutive times.... then is when the game want u switching to short passing...

Really, it needs a deep analysis .. and some confirmation cause if the options are linked to consition usage, "always" will mean that, theres a benefit behind this, depsite the visual stuffs we can see... thats an illusion man... just an illusion xD

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" i played zonal , beacause with rigid man marking if oppo strikers are faster or good dribblers they will beat your defenders,"

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don't overestimate the AI of the game mechanics :p
As Khris said, you give smthing (like more condition loss), you earn a little of something else.

Predetermined factors that impact a match but cannot be changed during a match: Condition, Morale, Training bonus, Win bonus

Factors that can be changed in match and do impact a match: Tactics

When i play zonal my deffence is weaker compared to mtm...
But when i play low pressing compared to high is a game dependable...sometimes team starts playing better sometimes worse so I am keeping it at low now...

Deffinitely is connected with tactic...in some tactics zonal is hetter in some mtm...same goes for pressure...

My opinion tho...

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Originally Posted by pcmacdaniel

Predetermined factors that impact a match but cannot be changed during a match: Condition, Morale, Training bonus, Win bonus

Factors that can be changed in match and do impact a match: Tactics

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I would do a little change in this point... tactics are chosen randomly as effective or not, so one option can be "visibly better" ,,,

then, win bonus can add a random "little chance" in the same % as attend in terms of increasing chances...

training bonus is part of the tactics, activate one or another or have at least the 10% trained, affect in the live match... is almost like a change of mentality really, despite that each training bonus affect to a few random number of players....

and condition/morale can be chosen as decisive or not when impact the scenario.... and those determine "initially" a path that will affect the simulation as the diff' between 2 AvQs... thats a static fact when the match starts... is a "starting differance" between 2 teams that pre-determines a starting scenario...

hmmm....

Actually is quite hard to know nowadays but before when we still had that possession penalizing rule you could clearly notice an improvement. There are way to many factors that can decide the final and to run a test by any of us I think is literally impossible as we do not really have the tools needed.

In big lines you can do some tests but a proper one you clearly can't. That's why for example I do not believe in Counter Formation or Tactics, I do believe they might work but is impossible for us to guess if it would work for us or not. Way, way, way, way to many factors at the middle.

One thing I noticed that is working is low pressing vs high pressing, my team usually perform much better with high pressing so I do assume yes we can influence the game all together.

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Originally Posted by PricopGeorgeCătălin

Actually is quite hard to know nowadays but before when we still had that possession penalizing rule you could clearly notice an improvement. There are way to many factors that can decide the final and to run a test by any of us I think is literally impossible as we do not really have the tools needed.

In big lines you can do some tests but a proper one you clearly can't. That's why for example I do not believe in Counter Formation or Tactics, I do believe they might work but is impossible for us to guess if it would work for us or not. Way, way, way, way to many factors at the middle.

One thing I noticed that is working is low pressing vs high pressing, my team usually perform much better with high pressing so I do assume yes we can influence the game all together.

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I think he means that we don't have any influence during the game.
All are finished 3 min before the match starting.
That was always a myth, a scenario, a case.
Personally I made my own test a couple of years before (with a reserve team, for a whole season) and found out that we can affect (more or less) the gameplay in about 75-80% of our games.

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Originally Posted by khris

I would do a little change in this point... tactics are chosen randomly as effective or not, so one option can be "visibly better" ,,,

then, win bonus can add a random "little chance" in the same % as attend in terms of increasing chances...

training bonus is part of the tactics, activate one or another or have at least the 10% trained, affect in the live match... is almost like a change of mentality really, despite that each training bonus affect to a few random number of players....

and condition/morale can be chosen as decisive or not when impact the scenario.... and those determine "initially" a path that will affect the simulation as the diff' between 2 AvQs... thats a static fact when the match starts... is a "starting differance" between 2 teams that pre-determines a starting scenario...

hmmm....

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Reading Khris is always a pleasure :)
Maybe not always,but most of times ×D

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Originally Posted by madflo19

Reading Khris is always a pleasure :)
Maybe not always,but most of times ×D

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:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::o

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Originally Posted by PricopGeorgeCătălin

Actually is quite hard to know nowadays but before when we still had that possession penalizing rule you could clearly notice an improvement. There are way to many factors that can decide the final and to run a test by any of us I think is literally impossible as we do not really have the tools needed.

In big lines you can do some tests but a proper one you clearly can't. That's why for example I do not believe in Counter Formation or Tactics, I do believe they might work but is impossible for us to guess if it would work for us or not. Way, way, way, way to many factors at the middle.

One thing I noticed that is working is low pressing vs high pressing, my team usually perform much better with high pressing so I do assume yes we can influence the game all together.

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Knowing that the players displaying don't matter, because the game always will allow you to have options with what you have in the field....

...the idea of testing, we should consider that, "should not be with the idea to know what give us advantadge" because this doesnn't exist, as every scenario have a pre-set of orders chosen to work....

but... we can test to know "what orders do"... to identify them just looking at the team performance.... and "how to know when a order is chosen wrongly" and "tests about the alternatives we could have, if we see X, Y, Z... tactics failing..." because ..

in a pre-determined way, we are at same point, if we set tactics X or Y the game will give advantadge to the local team or the visitor (and thats why the Table of Counters is not the Saint Grail, otherwise it will always give advantedge A formation vs B, and really very clearly... and this do not occur ..)

but attendling is when you can do corrections... and despite of what you've set by default, in terms of tactics, those that "pre-determined/influenced" the "starting scenario"... if you're enough wise you can identify which order is the "chosen one" as wrong by the simulator, and change it.

Thats the point now, make ppl wise. Because there's not "tactical" side, there's selection of random factors that have a impact in da simulation.

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Originally Posted by khris

I would do a little change in this point... tactics are chosen randomly as effective or not, so one option can be "visibly better" ,,,

then, win bonus can add a random "little chance" in the same % as attend in terms of increasing chances...

training bonus is part of the tactics, activate one or another or have at least the 10% trained, affect in the live match... is almost like a change of mentality really, despite that each training bonus affect to a few random number of players....

and condition/morale can be chosen as decisive or not when impact the scenario.... and those determine "initially" a path that will affect the simulation as the diff' between 2 AvQs... thats a static fact when the match starts... is a "starting differance" between 2 teams that pre-determines a starting scenario...

hmmm....

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I understand where you are coming from. Tactics however are relative, not random. There are random results, however, over a large sample size those troll results will be statistical outliers.

What's difficult with the tactics is, we have to know what the counters are. Such as, how to do you counter the offsides trap? How do you counter a short passing game? Even if we knows the answers to these questions, we run into more complicated things, like hiding the system and hardening the system.

There are some associations out there that do know how to do this stuff. Usually the Gold 1/platinum borderline type groups aren't this advanced, so when they make platinum, they sometimes go right back down like a revolving door. However towards the top of platinum it's a different story. Add in mutant players to these associations and it's a real nightmare to matchup against them. Fortunately, i've only encountered it a few times. Big thing to watch for is if you make a tactical adjustment and all ratings go green for my team for the ratings immediately after, then followed by a sea of red. When that happens more than once, the opponent has identified my changes from match ratings, statistics and animations, plus knows what to do tactically. Most notable example for me was when playing against Paradise (World #26 I think), when this was happening. My opponent was an upseller, but I had full mutant team as well. It was clear as day, he knew how to counter my orders, and was skilled in figuring out what I changed. All I could do was attempt to hide my system and harden my system, to slow down his reads. Really difficult to play against.

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Originally Posted by pcmacdaniel

I understand where you are coming from. Tactics however are relative, not random. There are random results, however, over a large sample size those troll results will be statistical outliers.

What's difficult with the tactics is, we have to know what the counters are. Such as, how to do you counter the offsides trap? How do you counter a short passing game? Even if we knows the answers to these questions, we run into more complicated things, like hiding the system and hardening the system.

There are some associations out there that do know how to do this stuff. Usually the Gold 1/platinum borderline type groups aren't this advanced, so when they make platinum, they sometimes go right back down like a revolving door. However towards the top of platinum it's a different story. Add in mutant players to these associations and it's a real nightmare to matchup against them. Fortunately, i've only encountered it a few times. Big thing to watch for is if you make a tactical adjustment and all ratings go green for my team for the ratings immediately after, then followed by a sea of red. When that happens more than once, the opponent has identified my changes from match ratings, statistics and animations, plus knows what to do tactically. Most notable example for me was when playing against Paradise (World #26 I think), when this was happening. My opponent was an upseller, but I had full mutant team as well. It was clear as day, he knew how to counter my orders, and was skilled in figuring out what I changed. All I could do was attempt to hide my system and harden my system, to slow down his reads. Really difficult to play against.

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"What's difficult with the tactics is, we have to know what the counters are. Such as, how to do you counter the offsides trap? How do you counter a short passing game? Even if we knows the answers to these questions, we run into more complicated things, like hiding the system and hardening the system."


And it is not so simple, cause the truth is that to test it properly, we can't do it only from the viewpoint of our team really.... to disclose all these stuffs we would need to stay in the own skin of both teams, and know, of "all the orders we've chosen" which ones are working, wich ones not... "and when they work" ....

Still, is a challenge, explain initially the funcion of each order and then how to use it, and how to find a solution to play against it.... or "show/prove if this option exists really" because when we talk of counters many times one have a perception of something static... like if X, use Y... but with the formations it doesnt work like this so... what if the orders are the same? what if nothing matters? and the only job one have to do is to find the open door that the game open for us and that allow our team to play "fluid" even if, this door do not have sense in a tactical screen?...... I wanna try to do this tbh xD

will need some tests these stuffs. Ive always believed that the game had a fixed and smaller number of scenarios than what we can imagine really....despite it seems bigger...

Having as an example the top100 from asso imo is totally wrong as most of them are there because of their trick skills.Always teams with mutant or very well trained players were a step forward to the normal teams.
Those player are doing all the "hard work".
Off course you can influence the game,as most of times when you or your opponent make a substitution,a goal will be scored in the same minute,but this is just because you trigger an action,not because you necessarily done a good move(that's why I'm 100% with Khris in what he is saying)

But if I revert the scenario and I'm wininnig the possesion, why my players play like teenagers and don't score? And my rival without manager, possesion, bonus..etc.. scores a goal with the first opportunity? And it happens very often, it's not just a bad day. And with national team the situation is almost demential...

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Originally Posted by pcmacdaniel

I understand where you are coming from. Tactics however are relative, not random. There are random results, however, over a large sample size those troll results will be statistical outliers.

What's difficult with the tactics is, we have to know what the counters are. Such as, how to do you counter the offsides trap? How do you counter a short passing game? Even if we knows the answers to these questions, we run into more complicated things, like hiding the system and hardening the system.
.

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Hmm, not exactly.
You can use offside trap or long balls in a game and it could works but in another game with same conditions it doesn't.

There is a " Wheel of Fortune" effect for every game. That's my explanation.
Or else there would be a mini manual for orders before many years, you know
if it's attack, you answer with def/counters
if it's normal, you answer with attack
...

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Originally Posted by madflo19

Having as an example the top100 from asso imo is totally wrong as most of them are there because of their trick skills.Always teams with mutant or very well trained players were a step forward to the normal teams.
Those player are doing all the "hard work".
Off course you can influence the game,as most of times when you or your opponent make a substitution,a goal will be scored in the same minute,but this is just because you trigger an action,not because you necessarily done a good move(that's why I'm 100% with Khris in what he is saying)

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I get what you are saying, but their is a serious misunderstanding here. I'm under the impression you think I had a normal team. I did not, my team was full mutant then (before I retired temporarily), 1% gray, 340% physical and white non-physical skills were very high as well. It wasn't the case of a mutant team beating up on normal guys, as I've won against several mutant teams in the past. Those guys had great tactics + mutants. Our teams were roughly equal and I was very much in the game against the upseller.

First leg I jumped up 2-0, before he scored twice in final 30 minutes to draw. Ratings were in his favor overall, I trolled him here. He made a late change to long passes (system I used was vulnerable to long passes, but I was aware of that. Opponent clearly knew that too) and I didnt realize it until I was down 0-1 @ 25' in 2nd leg. Made the adjustment, scored @ 31' and 32'. Added another @ 56', then held on for 4-3 win in 2nd leg. He was noticing my adjustments, so whenever i saw that sea of red in my ratings, i changed my orders. Make no mistake that guy was very good tactically.

My assoc was 11-23 loss overall, but we split 8-8 against their 3 upsellers. We lost 3-15 against the 3 that didn't have upseller teams at that point in time.

I was in Immicum Immicum Meus then (should look familar to some here because captain is well known). If anyone wants to confirm my story they can ask that captain.

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Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos

Hmm, not exactly.
You can use offside trap or long balls in a game and it could works but in another game with same conditions it doesn't.

There is a " Wheel of Fortune" effect for every game. That's my explanation.
Or else there would be a mini manual for orders before many years, you know
if it's attack, you answer with def/counters
if it's normal, you answer with attack
...

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What your saying is logical and makes sense.

But sometimes that logical thing does not happen. I would argue we are just pushing the tactical manual (s) of the leadership of various online communities so systems alternate to that leadership community get disregarded. It's not malicious as leadership has good intentions. It's just the nature of the beast. Managers on this forum learn the game different than managers that frequent top eleven united on fb or the turk fb group.

I would argue that the first thing a new member to forum/facebook_group looks for is credibility of manager offering help. That credibility takes the form of moderators and admin, because to get that title they need to have a credible source vogue for them. Therefore, if i am new to the forum, I know I can trust you, Khris, Dave, etc... On TE-United I know I can trust Noel. However, if the mod/admin system has flaws, it results in the spreading of a flawed system to tens of thousands of players. Under this scenario we have well meaning source (s) whose integrity is confirmed and validated by nordeus spreading misinformation.

Applied to top11. Top 100 is mostly russians, turks and vietnamese. Why are those communities so prevalent? Surely other regions are playing with mutants and/or exploiting the game by other means. Why aren't they as successful?

I know your team @pcmacdaniel as we've been friends before i deactivated my main account,it's not the case.
Also i want to say that i never looked at how my opponent is playing(long/short balls, wide/through the middle etc) and i beat some mutant teams(i never had 11 mutants,just 7-8 well trained players 1%grey skills-200%-340% white skills) this doesn't proves anything, but you might be right and i was just lucky :p
As for your question why other regions are not so successful, for me it's quite simple,it needs a lot of devotion..from all 6 members.
I remember the Romanian nr1 asso from top100 when we were allowed to loan players,they didn't had rivals, very detached in top,but i guess it's not easy to be so devoted, especially now,the last 1-2 years only those are surviving there in top.

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Applied to top11. Top 100 is mostly russians, turks and vietnamese. Why are those communities so prevalent? Surely other regions are playing with mutants and/or exploiting the game by other means. Why aren't they as successful?

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I could answer but not here.
Some things can cause misunderstandings.
Cannot discuss everything in public.

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Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos

I could answer but not here.
Some things can cause misunderstandings.
Cannot discuss everything in public.

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Ok, I understand :)