Stupid game Top 11

I play this game with 3 active teams, for 5 years now... I watch 99% of games and I test it and do stats for every game... Because of it, I'm able to notice the most of changes in the gameplay, if not all of them... There are hundreds stupid issues in this game, but I'll focus on specific one, scripting... Scripting happens when it is obvious you should win, but algorithm wont let you win... That happens so often in this game... The main reason is, if scripting happens in a league game, to keep the league interesting... It wont let you make big points gap between you and other teams... There is another "scripting mould", when you can not win 4 games in row, no matter who your opponents are and how strong they are...

Let's start...

7.35 average season rating of the team in 99% situations leads to the league title... The lowest title winning average rating I had was 7.25...

In this thread I'll go through all my games, so stay focused, especially admins...

P.S. I'll add another issue to this thread - Top 11 favouring teams with absent managers, changing their style of play during a game...

This game gets worse and worse.

After a treble, I didn't change tactic, in league two draws against absent managers, weaker teams about 15%; First half 2-0 for me, no change, final result 2-2.

Today another troll match:

Attachment 112938

As usual, weaker team (15%), absent manager and look the stats...100% shot efficiency. He played in hard defending but no cards, me 2 yellow cards. LOL.

When the game decides you do not have to win, you do not win, you can not do anything to change.

And it's ridiculous see teams playing without midfieds, in real world they would lose all matches, also with Messi and CR7.

In this game the role of the midfield isn't considered, while is probably the most important sector in the pitch.

I wanted to start with first season games, but this game came right after I started this thread and my experience is fresh...

My team was 2nd placed before the game and we were playing against the leader... The most often you can see from the game start if the game is trolling you and same was here... From the beginning we were better team creating chances, but the opponent scored from the first shot on target... We equalized, but at the end, 1-1 is TROLL score... 61% to 39% possession... 23 to 11 chances... 6 times more shots on target, 12 to 2... Average team rating 7.12 to 6.70... All that was not good enough for win... My goalie got rating 6.3 and his got 8.7... A game before my goalie got 9.5 and his got 5.8 (equal game, but he won that one)... So no player form in this game, everything is random... The game is deciding what player is motivated or not... Not to mention, opponent manager was absent...

So, after the first post - regular score vs troll score 0-1...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iridensys

This game gets worse and worse.

After a treble, I didn't change tactic, in league two draws against absent managers, weaker teams about 15%; First half 2-0 for me, no change, final result 2-2.

Today another troll match:

Attachment 112938

As usual, weaker team (15%), absent manager and look the stats...100% shot efficiency. He played in hard defending but no cards, me 2 yellow cards. LOL.

When the game decides you do not have to win, you do not win, you can not do anything to chang.

And it's ridiculous see teams playing without midfieds, in real world they would lose all matches, also with Messi and CR7.

In this game the role of the midfield isn't considered, while is probably the most important sector in the pitch.

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See what I'm saying? Too many games in Top 11 are trolls, for you or against you... I even won a league once, with all 13 opponents 20%+ stronger than my team... Few seasons ago I was in a league with 12 teams 30%+ stronger and one team was bot... So at the beginning projection was that we will win 6 points... We won 38!!! We trolled every single team in the league, at least once in the season...

I think results are prederminated before the matches, so it's useless change something during live or follow the match.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iridensys

I think results are prederminated before the matches, so it's useless change something during live or follow the match.

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There is a high possibility that the most of the game is just cosmetic... 2D animation is... It's different than commentary... If you watch the game in two browsers, at the same time, one with 2D on and the other with 2D off... Even stats might be cosmetic... I scored 2 goals in a game, had two more shots on target saved, but the stats said I had only 2 shots on target...

Let's continue... This game came after the one from previous post... I was forced to play without starting DMC and MC due suspension... Had 5 players in the back line, plus 3* bench DMC... Also had a new goalie, bought this morning... All my defenders and old goalie had average rating higher than 7.00, prior to this game... Side backs had higher rating than 7.40... All of them got ratings lower than 6.0 in this game... After conceding 3 goals from 5 shots on target, I subbed goalie, but bench goalie was even worse... New starting goalie got rating 5.6, sub got 5.0... Opponent's goalie got 8.5 (in previous league game he got 5.2)... If you look at the stats, opponent had 12 shots on target, just like us in the post above, but scored 5, while we scored zero from 7 shots... 61% to 39% possession for us tells me 22 chances for opponent and 18 for us is not normal thing... Game length is 90 minutes, but average ball-in-play time is 55-60 minutes... So, basically, 39% is 22-23 minutes of opponent's possession... To have 22 chances within 22-23 minutes of possession, with 78% passes completed is rubbish... Opponent had average rating 7.45 and we had 6.02... 6.02 is the lowest rating in the season, if not the lowest ever... And yes, opponent's manager was absent... My the best player, who has 7.79 career rating, this season has 7.29... Why he is trolled for so long, I don't know, Nordeus should answer that... We deserved to lose, but 5-0 from 12-7 on target is harsh... I'll let you answer, if you thing 5-0 is troll...

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I'll add to the previous post that I don't play too seriously with Belgrade United... I always get 20-30% stronger opponent's in the league, whenever I have strong team, so I'm not spending too many tokens on them... When my team was 120% strong, I got 150% strong opponents, finished bellow promotion spot, but got promoted anyway... Next season, with 100% strong team, I got 130% strong opponents, couldn't win or play draw in the most of games, so I sold all players, but 2 wingers and bought 3* players... At the end of the season, my team was 70% strong, finished bellow the line, but, again got promoted... FFS... And guess what? With 50% strong team, next season I got 80-90% strong opponents... So I gave up playing seriously, but still watching the games...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iridensys

I think results are prederminated before the matches, so it's useless change something during live or follow the match.

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No, if you search the forum you can find experiments done about this, we can influence the game during the live match.

I alredy talked about troll matches, i'm not against them unlucky matches are normal in real life

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but the rate of them in T11 (actually) is too much during the season and they need to fix this( like @Khris said time ago )

This is not real life, nor 11 vs. 11, with all irrational things involved in RL football... This is a game, 1 on 1 game... Point of the game should be to see who is better manager, not who is more or less trolled...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steppenwolf

This is not real life, nor 11 vs. 11, with all irrational things involved in RL football... This is a game, 1 on 1 game... Point of the game should be to see who is better manager, not who is more or less trolled...

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Better manager but inside the own game limitations... that are very limited realy... because the simulator don't works with a real logic... of course as u mentioned in the simulation there's a X factor counted that involves the league table situation, and this is chosen when season starts, then each own match have few different scenarios, depending if one manager, both or noone attend and inside the scenarios with the manager watching the game tends to force the manager to "do something".

So this is not about 1vs1 tactics because the game never was designed for this. Theres no influence in the 1vs1 orders when the game set by default in a scenario that, all long passings will not work... or when a player is set by default to, be agressive and receive 2 yellows... same with the passing focussing, which is randomly chosen and all the other stuffs based in internal numbers.

So really, it is a complicated stuff to dont understand a football simulator out of the "tactic logic" but, it have it's own logic, when one understand that, the visual player skills don't have the weight as the internal ones and that, orders are not related with the oppo's settings, exactly...

Then right now "seems like" to minimize the mutants impact with oversized skills, dev's increased the beatability margin, what causes more troll scores.... we could see how some events had 2 different calibrations for the matches too... in one case with a higher beatability margin, allowing some 80%-100%s win 150%s and the second case is when the amount of "scenarios" available in the system are reduced, so seems like many times the matches had exactly the same situations (same red card for same player in 2-3 matches of 5 played, etc)...

IMO as always Ive defended, all started since the limits between skills where eliminated, and, all those extra calibrations made in the regular comp's should not be actually needed... we can understand a "simplifyed simulator" with less scenarios in a particular challenge, indeed, but the regular comp's should be "marked" by the own league rythm, which discounts a 20% each season... and we should count that the the main source used by the simulator to select the "margin" of the scenarios are the players main stars.... despite that, few high skills can fix in a straight way the results... ...with a better calibration, -and skill limits again- troll scores with this simulator should happen seldom....

One troll or unlucky match is acceptable.

Not 3 in 7 matches of league.

And it's not correct that absent managers often have good results; I spend time for game for what? The game should reward those present, instead many times there is a manager with a 15% of bonus fan, opponents absent and the result is bad.

Let's add another game to this thread, just finished... 23% stronger opponent didn't watch the game... They scored header after a corner kick... By all parameters before the game, opponent should win this one, but they didn't... Average rating was on our side, as well as possession and shots on target, but we didn't win... I consider this as a troll against the opponent, they attacked the most of the time, but they didn't win... So it's regular vs. troll 1-2... Opponent didn't watch the game, btw...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iridensys

One troll or unlucky match is acceptable.

Not 3 in 7 matches of league.

And it's not correct that absent managers often have good results; I spend time for game for what? The game should reward those present, instead many times there is a manager with a 15% of bonus fan, opponents absent and the result is bad.

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With troll games always comes the question: "Why I am trolled and not the opponent"...

Just don't attend matches, I won one of my 2 trebles without attending a single game. And if you loose you can say that you didn't attend and thats why. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steppenwolf

Let's add another game to this thread, just finished... 23% stronger opponent didn't watch the game... They scored header after a corner kick... By all parameters before the game, opponent should win this one, but they didn't... Average rating was on our side, as well as possession and shots on target, but we didn't win... I consider this as a troll against the opponent, they attacked the most of the time, but they didn't win... So it's regular vs. troll 1-2... Opponent didn't watch the game, btw...

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Let's take a look at the previous game against the same opponent... They were 26% stronger, but they couldn't get close to our goal for 42 minutes... They barely had few chances... But, after their DMC got red, they started playing like there is 15 of them on the pitch... We had 2 chances only in the next 48 minutes... This is troll... Not by average players rating, we were much better, but how the game treated 26% stronger team... Opponent's manager did watch the game... 3-1 for troll results...

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It is the time of the season for scripted results. 4th game of the CL and 2nd week of the league campaign are bad about this in my experience.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IImaestroII

No, if you search the forum you can find experiments done about this, we can influence the game during the live match.

I alredy talked about troll matches, i'm not against them unlucky matches are normal in real life

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but the rate of them in T11 (actually) is too much during the season and they need to fix this( like @Khris said time ago )

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Red Star vs Liverpool is good example how stats can lie if you didn't watch the game, it's Liverpool who was lucky not to lose by more goals.

Now a SL game, just finished... Noting unexpected happened here, we were stronger team and performed much better, but this happens rarely... After the worst performance in the season, in the league game, earlier, this was our best performance by far, 8.10 average rating... So, it's 3-2 for troll results...

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See how team performance is oscillating, game by game...

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Same opponent, a week earlier, same result... Nothing unusual, deserved win... 3-3, now it's even in regular vs. troll results game...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steppenwolf

Now a SL game, just finished... Noting unexpected happened here, we were stronger team and performed much better, but this happens rarely... After the worst performance in the season, in the league game, earlier, this was our best performance by far, 8.10 average rating... So, it's 3-2 for troll results...

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See how team performance is oscillating, game by game...

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"neutral players oscilation" .... key players tend to keep high ratings, like 10-10-9-10-8 maybe, and others do this oscilation, intentionally in terms of "contribution" during the matches...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by khris

"neutral players oscilation" .... key players tend to keep high ratings, like 10-10-9-10-8 maybe, and others do this oscilation, intentionally in terms of "contribution" during the matches...

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Not like that... Even key players oscillate from 10 to 6 to 10... Or are completely trolled, comparing to previous season...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steppenwolf

Not like that... Even key players oscillate from 10 to 6 to 10... Or are completely trolled, comparing to previous season...

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Then looking the latest scores we have to check out if the simulator has been re-calibrated lately.... cuz Im noticing that many people is saying what you say.. lately something has changed...

I don't know why but developers make this game more and more disappointing. Really randomly and meanless! Khris, I see that you are looking for logic explanation for all obscenities happen in the game, but there isn't explanation and there isn't excuse for Nordeus. They killed one really good game and we have to accept this and move forward.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by khris

"neutral players oscilation" .... key players tend to keep high ratings, like 10-10-9-10-8 maybe, and others do this oscilation, intentionally in terms of "contribution" during the matches...

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Nordeus never gived a explanation about Phisical & Mental attributes,and the only attribute related to the "Mental" part imo can be fitness. So Can "Fitness" be related to this player form ? Like for example, a low fitness player ( even with great stats ) is "lazy" and have rating like 8-6-6-8-7 etc.. or a player with high fitness is a hard worker and have costant rating like 8-8-9-8-9 etc

Also in training section we can see this
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This is a example, my 2 players with different fitness

1
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2
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Just a hypothesis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by khris

Then looking the latest scores we have to check out if the simulator has been re-calibrated lately.... cuz Im noticing that many people is saying what you say.. lately something has changed...

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I have noticed that lately "scouts" and players with higher gray skills are performing little better than "mutants"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by po_zdrach

I don't know why but developers make this game more and more disappointing. Really randomly and meanless! Khris, I see that you are looking for logic explanation for all obscenities happen in the game, but there isn't explanation and there isn't excuse for Nordeus. They killed one really good game and we have to accept this and move forward.

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I basically explain my knowledge and experience of how it was.... the how it is, is a mystery that we need to solve xD and yes... is true that we notice about changes in the players behavior and there are no news, but you know well as a old forumer that since years ago we've been asking for a more open relation with Nordeus... more direct, more influence from real managers (more when we talk of old managers stuck in high levels...) ...so we only can stay pushing...

Regarding the oscilation point I just wanted to mention that the simulation chose different players intentionally for each match, thats how it creates a variability... from the 11, 7-8 appear in the old comments (then the live animation do it's own version) and some of these 7-8 have different impact and contribution,... next match, another group of 7-8is chosen, and so...
Right now, if the ratings variation is even more wide, means that something has happenned... Im just doing observations, not justifying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IImaestroII

Nordeus never gived a explanation about Phisical & Mental attributes,and the only attribute related to the "Mental" part imo can be fitness. So Can "Fitness" be related to this player form ? Like for example, a low fitness player ( even with great stats ) is "lazy" and have rating like 8-6-6-8-7 etc.. or a player with high fitness is a hard worker and have costant rating like 8-8-9-8-9 etc

Also in training section we can see this
Attachment 112992

This is a example, my 2 players with different fitness

1
Attachment 112994
Attachment 112996

2
Attachment 112998
Attachment 113000

Just a hypothesis

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I only play the cup... Im the favourite with just one rival there...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by NekoIzMase

I have noticed that lately "scouts" and players with higher gray skills are performing little better than "mutants"

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I've noticed something similar. Ishi should not be performing at an equal level to Centeno.

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The game is stupid and those who worry about it (including me) are even more stupid. Really, results are too random, no logic at all, so why bother? Nordeus suck but yet laugh at stupid us

Be calm, be calm, this game is still great




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Just wanted to add a few IMHO words to this topic.

I also noticed huge changes in the results during the last 2 seasons. If previously I had 2 troll results during the whole season now the number of such games is 7-8. Especially it is noticed in the league when I keep losing to much lower bot teams without any logical explanation.

My latest example of troll match was my yesterday's champions league game. It ended in a draw 1-1 with absolutely equal stats for both teams. The only problem is the my opponent is 1 lvl and 46% lower than me. Unfortunately I can't add any screen shots right now but they are still available.

One more example is my Sunday's game. Equal opponent and I was easily winning 0-2 without any chances from the opponent's side. When suddenly starting from 55th min to 79th min the opponent scores 5 !!! goals in a row. The last one was a penalty and a red card to my player. And after the red card my players start playing much better and in the last 10 minutes they were able to score 2 but I was still defeated 5-4. And more interesting question is that sometimes teams with red cards start playing much better, their shooting starts increase a lot and they easily score goals which seems strange.

As for the fitness - the only thing I have noticed till now that my players with the fitness 180+ never get injured. At the same time when I put some young players with fitness lower than 60-80 usually are injured even during the first minutes of the game

Let's try to figure out one thing:

The simulator counts
1- League situation (general scenario, this can be, for ex- keep a close distance vs the 2nd, to have a scenario with a close league, usually, lose vs a team in the middle table... etc of scenarios)

2- Pre-match scenario that counts the distance of Main AvQ between the 2 teams, and chose some orders to be determinant, and some not (this linked to the point 1)
Remember that from X distance of avq, the old high scores where cutted, still the situation is equal in the case to face a similar avq, or a distant one, we can, have a 5-0 vs a similar avq, and then a 1-1 vs a -30%,,, but same time happens that we can draw with the similar team 2-2 and win 4-0 vs the -30%.


3-Live match -once the scenario is set, here there is a impact coming from the internal programming, -hidden skills- and hidden X players that contribute by default (ex-theres always a best player for FKs, one for corners etc... chose him and the game will react properly-
Hidden skills means:
You can have a 5-6* player, with all atributes in 1% rank and just 2 skills +340% and, as the internal programming is linked to the main AvQ and raises with this %, then thats why it is enough to oversize 2 skills.
The impact of each individual skill in the internal parameters is minimal and thats why if one train each ST till 9*'s never obtain the same result, because there's this internal limit of contribution, that raises with the main player AvQ.

And more or less thats the point I wanted to share.

A game from 2 days ago... We were league leaders and played against 12th placed team... Opponent got red card, but the game was so persistent not to let us win... 2nd placed team played their game earlier... They were losing 0-2, opponent got straight red card in 70th and they scored 3 goals in 7 minutes for 3-2... As you can see, rival stats were equal as those from their opponents, and we had better stats than our opponent...

So, the question is (as always): why we got trolled and not our opponent?

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I am very rarely trolled. The thing happens like a pattern when I face a certain kind of opponent. Typically, a level -1 team 25-30% weaker than me when I play a crucial cup/CL game (semi or final). This team is not only going to beat me but it's going to deserve it without any reason (my tactic looks better on paper, my team is better, I am present and the oppo is not). I lost 6 trebles in 7 seasons like this. The funny thing is that I later faced two of these oppos in league (of course, at the same level) with the same quality difference and I won easily the two legs. This never happened to me in the old days. I'm sure it's been implemented.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steppenwolf

A game from 2 days ago... We were league leaders and played against 12th placed team... Opponent got red card, but the game was so persistent not to let us win... 2nd placed team played their game earlier... They were losing 0-2, opponent got straight red card in 70th and they scored 3 goals in 7 minutes for 3-2... As you can see, rival stats were equal as those from their opponents, and we had better stats than our opponent...

So, the question is (as always): why we got trolled and not our opponent?

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It's what I'm always saying. Imagine this game as a wheel of fortune. In every game, in every situation of the game to be clear, but to simplify things we say every game, the wheel is spun one time and if you are the better team, better bonuses, better skills, good tactics and so on, your sector on this wheel is larger than the one from your opponent, so the CHANCE you win is higher. Still it is luck based at the end and it can land whereever...

When you have a good team, you will always end up on top of other opponents that don't, in the long run that is. Because of probability. Its math. But sometimes you loose, you have to, to keep the world in balance. (lol I should become a philosopher)

I just win to many games to believe its all random. Sure I lose some games I think I shouldn't, but then I win with 110% vs a 147% team 2 levels above over 2 legs in quarter finals of the CL. These games show me that I do something right at least.

The game has become a lottery of late, there is no rhyme or reason as to whether you win or lose....its broken they have added so many gimmicks that the programming no longer makes any sense.

10 minutes of hell. After he go player sent off he started playing... well like Barcelona. Of course manager wasn't there.
I would like if someone from Nordeus can tell us what influence on team AM has when manager is not present because sometimes changes in tactics are obvious.
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