Youth Academy training speed - Data collection

Hello guys,

I wanted to create a new topic here in General Discussion as I now want to collect data regarding the coaching gainage (in academy) of our youth players.

You can follow my observations up to this point in my thread in Tutorial section of the forum...
https://forum.topeleven.com/tutorial...h-academy.html

We said there that most likely there is no relation between the initial cost of the youth player (0-6T) and his training speed. We then concluded, that it is either completely random if your player is a fast trainer, or there is a relation between his training speed and how much you invested in coaches during the YA spell.

Today I found out, that players gain different amount of percentage when you assign a coach to them. We knew that before, but we thought that it is only because of their initial projected quality, but not because of their talent.

Now today I have 2 players in my academy, who gain the following % when assigning a head coach (x3.2) to them:

Attachment 131769
Attachment 131770

As you can see my DC Evers gains 0.3% more from a head coach than my MC Zeus, despite having also a little higher initial quality. Which would make him then 0.6% better instead of 0.3% if I would invest the same amount of ressources into both.
This is only a small difference, but I think it means that my DC will be a bit faster of a trainer than the MC, who I then could release at the end of the season as a slow trainer for example to not count for my Top 14 players.

It could be very helpful, when we know if a player is a faster or a slower trainer, if we plan to assign coaches to them or release them to not count for our 14 best players when the draw is made for the new season.
This is why I want you to post your players and how much they would gain from assigning a head coach for 7 days. If we have a lot of data here, we can then approximately tell how fast of a trainer our player is when we compare him to the players here in this thread.

Attachment 131771
Attachment 131772

Here another example... Of course Digba Zah is a bit lower and that means he should gain more from the head coach, but 4.3% more seems a lot when he is only 2% lower initially.
Also Kouadio was a ST who costed 5T and Digba Zah was the free one. This means Digba Zah is the faster trainer? I think so, we could see next season if we test them with special ability. But if I wanted to invest in a coach for one of them or only keep one of them to not have 2 players counting for my Top 14 players average, I could release Kouadio as he should be the slow trainer here.

We need a lot of data to find out in what range the % gain is possible for a starting quality.

Data so far:

S 127 MC Kalus 68.3% + 31.2%
S 127 MC Biersard 68.0% + 31.2%
S 128 DC Kipré 67.8% + 31.3%
S 127 ST Duguid 67.6% + 30.9%
S 128 GK Al-Zoubi 66.7% + 31.4%
S 128 GK Kügler 66.2% + 31.6%
S 127 DMC Cherif 65.0% + 31.6%

S 128 ST Beckmann 64.8% + 31.6%
S 127 DC Ferrie 64.4% + 32.0%
S 127 DL Tilger 63.6% + 32.1%
S 127 GK Barke 63.2% + 32.2%
S 127 ST Ruphin 63.1% + 31.9%
S 127 DC Evers 62.6% + 32.3%
S 128 ST Sobhy 62.5% + 32.0%
S 127 MC Zeus 62.3% + 32.0%
S 128 MC Sebastian 60.9% + 32.2%
S 128 ST Rubach 60.6% + 32.7%
S 127 AML Russell 60.2% + 32.6%
S 127 AMR Park 60.0% + 32.8%

S 127 DL Maury 59.9% + 32.7%
S 128 DC Gnaleko 59.8% + 32.7%
S 127 DL Kinney 59.8% + 32.5%
S 128 ST Bruckner 59.7% + 36.2%
S 128 DC Schanda 59.7% + 36.3%
S 128 GK Friebertshäuser 59.6% + 36.0%
S 127 MR Günther 59.6% + 32.9%
S 128 MC Smoulders 59.4% + 36.0%
S 127 ST Kouadio 59.3% + 32.6%
S 127 AMR McGeouch 59.3% + 32.7%
S 128 DC Miedl 59.0% + 36.6%
S 127 AMR McDonald 58.8% + 32.9%
S 127 GK Leonard 58.7% + 36.5%
S 128 MC Brieschke 58.6% + 36.3%
S 128 DC Byloos 58.6% + 33.2%
S 128 MC Zèbre 58.4% + 36.5%
S 127 ST Voavy 58.4% + 32.2%
S 128 DR Kaba 58.3% + 32.9%
S 128 DR De Groodt 58.0% + 36.9%
S 128 MC Mols 58.0% + 36.3%
S 127 DL Lehmann 57.9% + 36.6%
S 127 ST Neill 57.5% + 36.6%
S 128 AMC Duve 57.4% + 36.7%
S 127 ST Digba Zah 57.3% + 36.9%
S 127 ST Lambrecht 57.3% + 36.6%
S 127 MC Kovulmaz 57.1% + 37.0%
S 127 MC Randrianatonisolo 56.6% + 37.3%
S 127 MC Youan-Bi 56.4% + 37.0%
S 128 GK Rakan 56.1% + 37.6%
S 128 ST Fischer 56.1% + 37.5%
S 128 DC Al-Mutairi 55.7% + 37.6%
S 127 DMC Si Larbi 55.7% + 37.6%
S 127 MC Camara 55.4% + 37.3%
S 128 DC Anon 55.0% + 37.5%

I show you two screenshots that I already posted in another thread. The first one is from the previous season and the last one is from the current season.

A little five cents from my sight. Maybe, let me stress this: maybe, Nordeus changed the rules on this subject a bit for this season.

Attachment 131318

Attachment 131768

here's my data. I also put the cost of the player just so I can see the difference between the free and the token ones

DC J.Mohd Zaki 58.9%+33% 4token
DR M.Sumar 58.5%+36.7% free
DR I.Abdul Samad 55.3%+37.4% free
GK M.Abdul Karim 60.5%+32.8% free

ST D.Wolze 59%+36.2% 5token
MC A.Delura 57.9%+36.8% free
DMC A.Alkan 57.9%+36.7% free
DMC K.Jung 58.5%+33.3% free

DMC D.Röttger 65.3%+31.7% 2token
DMC A.Kügler 57.5%+37% 3token
ST R.Schulz 67.7%+30.8% free
DL D.Eybächer 59.2%+36.3% free

still this is incomplete data, but the end result weirdly have the tokens and free ones ends up with almost same % at the end of training.
maybe the tokens will be fast trainer when we get it for next season. (or not)
well at least there's someone who have the same mind like me on taking notes bout player %
me stupidly last season just trigger happy clicking every free and cheap player and in the end have no clue which is free which is token(or how much it cost) so I have to take note starting this season.
oh and a little note, the position we request that we get for free will end up more % than other position that cost free, and they'll probably end up being as high(or higher) % than the token ones

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jarharnamme

still this is incomplete data, but the end result weirdly have the tokens and free ones ends up with almost same % at the end of training.
maybe the tokens will be fast trainer when we get it for next season. (or not)
well at least there's someone who have the same mind like me on taking notes bout player %
me stupidly last season just trigger happy clicking every free and cheap player and in the end have no clue which is free which is token(or how much it cost) so I have to take note starting this season.
oh and a little note, the position we request that we get for free will end up more % than other position that cost free, and they'll probably end up being as high(or higher) % than the token ones

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Like I said so far there was no relation between the token cost of the player and their training speed. I had 6T striker who was a slower trainer than a free DC.
Also we don't know if these % mean that the player is a faster trainer when he gets more % with 1 week of head coach than another, while having the same rating at the beginning. But why would one player gain more than another one? It doesn't make any sense if he is not a faster learner imo.
It is just another test so far. It could mean nothing but also could be a little help in the future to determine faster trainers in the academy.

And the Performance of this Academy Players? Good or bad

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kick Ass

And the Performance of this Academy Players? Good or bad

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superb! my youth players are mostly defensive players because my AML, AMR & ST already good enough.
usually defenders have ****e rating during matches but these youth players are all superb!
if they're not fast trainer then by next season i'll have another 4 18yo at start of new season. no problem :cool:

Attachment 131784

Looks Not bad . Thanks . Good luck for your Matches

My own data:

DL J.O'Shea 65.90% 31.70%
ST J.Severino 65.40% 31.50%
MR L.Neary 64.20% 32.00%
ST D.Delaney 63.20% 31.90%
MR D.Sharp 61.20% 32.40%
AML R.Ugwu 59.00% 33.10%
MC S.Ingram 57.40% 36.80%
GK J.Gleeson 57.10% 36.70%

I have a bit of a working theory from looking at the numbers so far. There are some trends in there, and consequently one or two that stand-out as not quite fitting the trend.

As such, I'd be interested to know if the following are fast trainers when they become available at the start of next season:

DL D.Eybächer
ST D.Wolze
GK Leonard
DR M.Sumar

My guys are like this

S.Malhado DC - 63,3+31,6%
P.Monteiro MC - 66,3+31,0%
P.Bandeira MC - 58,2+33,0%
C.Castro DMC - 55,6+37,1%

I've noticed last season and your data confirm, the better the player is the less training afects him, similar with the power training

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ludo_Mansio

I have a bit of a working theory from looking at the numbers so far. There are some trends in there, and consequently one or two that stand-out as not quite fitting the trend.

As such, I'd be interested to know if the following are fast trainers when they become available at the start of next season:

DL D.Eybächer
ST D.Wolze
GK Leonard
DR M.Sumar

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Yeah Leonard will definitely test, he is one of the highest who gains much. The trend right now looks like to avoid 58-65% players. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Der_Ryan_M

Yeah Leonard will definitely test, he is one of the highest who gains much. The trend right now looks like to avoid 58-65% players. lol

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So out of the 4 players from this team, Leonard is definitely the fastest trainer. I think we have a relation between how much a player gains from the head coach and how fast of a trainer he is.
We just need more data here, to compare our players to. Then we can find out who is worth keeping and who can be released.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ludo_Mansio

I have a bit of a working theory from looking at the numbers so far. There are some trends in there, and consequently one or two that stand-out as not quite fitting the trend.

As such, I'd be interested to know if the following are fast trainers when they become available at the start of next season:

DL D.Eybächer
ST D.Wolze
GK Leonard
DR M.Sumar

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I'd be interested to know if these 4 are all fast trainers?

Sounds like Leonard is a fast trainer, what about Eybächer and Wolze? They were outliers in the numbers I looked at.

Would be great if people could keep submitting their data - name, original quality (%), increase with head coach (%)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ludo_Mansio

I'd be interested to know if these 4 are all fast trainers?

Sounds like Leonard is a fast trainer, what about Eybächer and Wolze? They were outliers in the numbers I looked at.

Would be great if people could keep submitting their data - name, original quality (%), increase with head coach (%)

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Unfortunately these players were from none of my teams, only GK Leonard. He was in a group with ST Voavy, ST Ruphin and MC Randrianatonisolo. MC is second fast in the group, then Ruphin before Voavy who was the slowest.
But even then I cannot say that even Leonard is 1st class fast trainer. He is 2nd class fast trainer, I would use him for training when I can't find a better one, which is tough today with so few 18 yo FT in auctions.

Again this season the players me and my kid developed turned out to be fast trainers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NUNO FC

Again this season the players me and my kid developed turned out to be fast trainers

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May I ask how you tested it? And did you invest in these players in the academy?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Der_Ryan_M

May I ask how you tested it? And did you invest in these players in the academy?

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Sorry the quick answer let me detail.

The two player we invested (one was 109% and the other 120% in the beginning of the season), i've not tested yet but they are the most expensive in the team I'm pretty sure they will train fast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NUNO FC

Sorry the quick answer let me detail.

The two player we invested (one was 109% and the other 120% in the beginning of the season), i've not tested yet but they are the most expensive in the team I'm pretty sure they will train fast.

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Hm ok, they should be the most expensive when they are one of the youngest and highest rated in the team though.
If you are still in a low level, you can tell if they are fast trainer just by their market value.
If you write me the level along with the % of the player I can tell you. I have a market value table for fast trainers of any of the lower levels.

i'm too lazy and annoyed to write down all the details but here's my experience: again all 4 players gain roughly the same in training as the the 4 players last season. this season used senior coach for 3 players for 1 week and for 1 player local coach for 2 weeks. this didn't seem to make any difference compared to last season when i hired no coaches.

all 8 players train significantly slower than any academy player i got from the old academy.

new academy: using very hard drill gives (at best) 1-2-2-2-1-2-2-2-1 SA points
old academy: using very hard drill gave (at worst) 1-2-2-2-2-2-2-1 and at best 1-2-2...2's till infinity.

So today I will begin adding the data from season 128. I will add the number of the season in the table, so that we notice when something changes about the trainability of the players.

Also here is an example, that the data we collect actually makes sense and is an indicator for how fast the player gains in training together with his market value.
We see here the 2 players from last seasons youth intake:

S 127 MC Youan-Bi 56.4% + 37.0%
and
S 127 ST Kouadio 59.3% + 32.6%

Attachment 132105
Attachment 132106

It is clearly visible, that Youan-Bi is the faster trainer of both of these. He is lower rated, yet still has the higher market value compared to his teammate Kouadio.
Youan-Bi was projected to gain 37.0% if we had assigned a head coach to him, while Kouadio only would have gained 32.6%.
Of course Kouadio was the higher rated player to begin with, still the projected 32.6% were really low and similar numbers could be achieved by players who were almost 10% higher in their starting quality.

If we further collect data, we can pretty safely say who of your players will be worth keeping and who will not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Der_Ryan_M

If we further collect data, we can pretty safely say who of your players will be worth keeping and who will not.

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I agree, lets keep collecting data. From my two teams the data for this season is below, in the format: Name, original quality, % increase with head coach

GK D.Morse 68.00% 31.30%
ST S.O'Callaghan 61.60% 32.50%
AMC D.Lynch 60.30% 32.70%
AMC C.Ormonde 59.70% 36.10%
DR R.Owusu-Ansah 59.20% 36.20%
ST J.Murphy 58.20% 36.40%
ML J.Linney 57.40% 36.80%
ST S.Cadogan 55.00% 37.40%

From these I will be focussing on Ormonde and Owusu-Ansah as they seem to gain more % than they should do.

I left one DC from academy which I used just for "train special ability" sponsor task and train him regularly with rest of squad. . This season he is 19 yo player with average score 58% and added special ability. His average defense were about 80%. So he looked like nice trainee so I invested less then 100G and got some good defender (far from mutant, cause I do not own much greens). I also spent double to improve my attacker and he had much worse results then new DC. Unfortunately I did not recorded how DC preformed in academy.

Anyway, I am going to join your data collecting.

My new academy chosens are

MC 66.4% / 0T / 2,5 stars in dark greeen - could be usefull / will add training percent when available
MC 55,3% / 4T / 1.5 star in dark green / will add

GK 58,9%/ 0T / 1.5 star in dark green / will add

May add one more.