What is going on with my players?

I have what I think to be a very legitimate question, now I know that even in reality things happen to the best players but how can players with 144% and better passing skills constantly and I mean constantly pass the ball directly to the opponent? How does a player with very high creativity levels really seem to have very little and never do anything different than the usual motions? I am puzzled really, why do we invest tokens and dollars in players, boosters for training etc. and as the players increase their skills very little of those skills are visible on the pitch? Why is it that I see a player get ahead for example on a counter and instead of passing the ball to his companion who is running right next to him and is wide open he persists in trying to outrun the adversary and then as clockwork gets the ball stolen? The programming of the game needs to improve to truly reflect the skills of the player. I said my peace now the answer to you

First of all, think that the developement isn't linear nor proportional, since each player has internal parameters, and these are linked to the player assigned role, in reality it is even more simple, so a player works or he doesn't.

It is like, ok you buy x2 STs, once scores like 25 goals/season in a league where the teams are similar or -10% +10% avq, but the second ST is set to be an assistant, so he'll score maybe 7 goals/season but will provide assistances.
You could buy a 3rd ST or a AML/C/R which are the same, and see how despite train him to 9* he only scores 10 goals meanwhile at the same time you keep the 1st ST, who score 25 goals at 6*.
So the player contribution doesn't fit with the visible skills, in reality the visual skills affect so slightly and these basically impact the beatability margin that sets the match parameters, so to your team avq compated to the opponent avq that can be +17% for you, or whatever.
This sets a distance and the "scenario margins".

So no, you can train all passing you want, you can even train it to 340% but if the player has a limited Dominance power (the power that assigns more or less match animations to every player) and low contributive power (so the effectivity % assigned, like, efficency 35% that a good assistant can have or a 7% that your player can have) this sets a cap.

If you do a friendly vs a team 9-10 levels lower, so a 1% team you will equalize all your players in the same star, the 1* you have and the 9* will be at the same star because the simulator only simulats a distance of 180% and you'll see the power distribution of your players, what they can do and the limits.

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Originally Posted by khris

You could buy a 3rd ST or a AML/C/R which are the same, and see how despite train him to 9* he only scores 10 goals meanwhile at the same time you keep the 1st ST, who score 25 goals at 6*.

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Lol. Managers overestimate player's high AvQ, but this is wrong. All calculations and player versus are made according to Team's and player's overall quality. Actually, there's not much difference between a 6* player vs 9* player is only +15. I believe that when a player reaches a certain quality like 100% , his all capacity has been unlocked, he can play well and there could be a set limiter is over 240% skills won't help you resolve the game like the previous version of the game. High AvQ players are only good for building a higher AvQ team than your rivals. Because Team AvQ is the most important parameter to decide/calculate match score in these days.

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Originally Posted by RaiKo

Lol. Managers overestimate player's high AvQ, but this is wrong. All calculations and player versus are made according to Team's and player's overall quality. Actually, there's not much difference between a 6* player vs 9* player is only +15. I believe that when a player reaches a certain quality like 100% , his all capacity has been unlocked, he can play well and there could be a set limiter is over 240% skills won't help you resolve the game like the previous version of the game. High AvQ players are only good for building a higher AvQ team than your rivals. Because Team AvQ is the most important parameter to decide/calculate match score in these days.

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What sets the Scenario parameter, what decides your chances is the team AvQ differance between both teams, thats called Beatability Margin.
If you are 102% and the opponent is 88% you are simply +14% and based in this distance you can determine the winning chances inside a parameter.

usually the winning margin is around 30% so you can win a +30% team and a -30% team can win you. Then as I always mention, the simulator only counts skills till 340% and, the margin to simulate is 180% so thats why against -8 or -9 levels all your team is uniformly exactly at the same star so like a full 9* team.

And yes, players have internal limits for realistic purposes and the skills and quality gain dont improve players but can give you the win by marginal, so thats what I call a fixed win because the competitor can't reach you in certain cases, so you don't win because of a better team exactly or "better players" lets say, in these cases one fix the margin and thats what gives the win, we have many rules in the community tournaments because of this factor.

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Originally Posted by RaiKo

Lol. Managers overestimate player's high AvQ, but this is wrong. All calculations and player versus are made according to Team's and player's overall quality. Actually, there's not much difference between a 6* player vs 9* player is only +15. I believe that when a player reaches a certain quality like 100% , his all capacity has been unlocked, he can play well and there could be a set limiter is over 240% skills won't help you resolve the game like the previous version of the game. High AvQ players are only good for building a higher AvQ team than your rivals. Because Team AvQ is the most important parameter to decide/calculate match score in these days.

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I disagree. I have lost a league title recently to a much lower quality team but better trained vietnamese team. We both had max training, similar support and i assume max morale (we cant check on this with other accounts). Higher average quality trumps higher white skills if nordeus or luck decides so. It isnt always true. Associations top 100 is all about low quality high whites. It will be difficult getting into an ultimate association with high greys.

My response to the thread starter is to find and read the historical thread on troll results. You will feel alot better knowing its what everyone goes through. Nothing much has change regarding that since i started playing 5-6 years ago. My belief is nordeus balances everything to keep it competitive. If you win alot, its time to lose. If you lose alot, let’s give you a opportunity to win. It aint a bug. All of us are force to lose matches we should win.

I agree with khris theory that various scenarios exist and change depending on many parameters and what we do real time during the game. However if such parameters can be set, they can also increase the difficulty for successful teams to make you spend more. Or more lenient parameters can be set for those who spend more to have favourable beatable margins

Everything I read here sounds logical. However, I am tanking with a negative quality team and beat teams of a much higher quality even with low morale and condition, no training and incorrect positions. Have given up trying to make sense of things. There is obviously a higher power (bots) in place controlling many aspects of the game

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Originally Posted by EastsiderSG

I disagree. I have lost a league title recently to a much lower quality team but better trained vietnamese team. We both had max training, similar support and i assume max morale (we cant check on this with other accounts). Higher average quality trumps higher white skills if nordeus or luck decides so. It isnt always true. Associations top 100 is all about low quality high whites. It will be difficult getting into an ultimate association with high greys.

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I guess we're both on the same side. You could have probably confused the two parameters, AvQ and Overall quality that's displayed in paranthesis. Here's the formula you must know.

Player/Team AvQ + 20 * (Manager Lvl - 1) = Overall Quality * 4

There are 2 calculation engine in the game as it follows;
1) League, cup, CL/super league calculations are made by Overall Quality value, low grey skills you get a huge rating penalty
2) Association, Friendly Championship and special events are made by AvQ. low grey skills bring you a little rating penalty.

You had lost the league bc your team's AvQ was higher than him, but both overall qualities were similar. Other parameters( i.e the fixture, weather condition, team contribution list, not ideal set piece taker settings, morale, fan mourinho support, counter formation, tactical settings, luck factor) could affect the title result.

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Originally Posted by RaiKo

I guess we're both on the same side. You could have probably confused the two parameters, AvQ and Overall quality that's displayed in paranthesis. Here's the formula you must know.

Player/Team AvQ + 20 * (Manager Lvl - 1) = Overall Quality * 4

There are 2 calculation engine in the game as it follows;
1) League, cup, CL/super league calculations are made by Overall Quality value, low grey skills you get a huge rating penalty
2) Association, Friendly Championship and special events are made by AvQ. low grey skills bring you a little rating penalty.

You had lost the league bc your team's AvQ was higher than him, but both overall qualities were similar. Other parameters( i.e the fixture, weather condition, team contribution list, not ideal set piece taker settings, morale, fan mourinho support, counter formation, tactical settings, luck factor) could affect the title result.

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No need to act all knowing and superior my friend. I am sure you did it unintentionally and was just earnestly educating a fellow player but I need no explanation for my loss. What you are saying is just an opinion. I believe i know what you know if not more unless you work for them.

To me, overall quality and average quality are essentially the same. No confusion on my part. Average quality just focuses on your current level and overall quality is in respect to the big picture which encompasses all levels. I lost in this instance because he had a much better team. I knew it from the start. 1 percent greys and 300 whites for the entire team while i had none of such upsold well trained players. At least i lost to a player who deserved to win for that league loss. There should have been a penalty in main competitions that would have benefited me that time but i had no such luck. There are many parameters that are random which puts the power in nordeus hands to decide whether you are going to win or lose that important match. These days high profile people are also talking about the lack of high performance players to explain why well trained trained teams lose to full scout teams.

And Yes everyone is aware of the 2 governing engines. Associations and main competitions. Quite obvious. The main point is all these parameters are just a cover up for them to allow big strong teams who put in alot of effort to lose to players who buy straight off auctions and do not powertrain. As mentioned, not much diff between 6 and 9 star players. All i am saying is we have to accept thats how this game is. Always was like this since i started. We win or lose by whatever the game engine decides and this is programmed by developers. I have ever joined an opponents association and knew he had only 8 out of 40 training yet beat me in a cup finals with a much lower quality untrained team. You won’t see me complaining about it here.

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Originally Posted by EastsiderSG

These days high profile people are also talking about the lack of high performance players to explain why well trained trained teams lose to full scout teams.

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Yes I know you're one of top class manager in the forum. I bet some devs might not be aware of info in terms of the result of mechanism they build and game bugs than you. I was not trying to tell you how the things gonna work in this game, was trying to explain the math versus in simulation engine that is where the most of managers are mistaken. Let's say they may think a player who has 300% passing skill must easily send the ball behind the oppo. defender who has 120% tackling. +180 gap the first thing that spring to their mind, but the actual difference in overall quality calculation is only +45 in local tournaments and also the effectiveness of the skill's nerfed values above 200% give the weak player a significant chance to win the duel against your strong player. I agree that his squad and the team chemistry (this is not meaning of TB or PB) must have been better than you in this case. And other parameters like luck factor we already know and have to accept that we cannot win all matches and the titles no matter what we did on the ground.

About performance of the players, Yes this is not new for me, the rating system has been changed and updated, still monitoring to understand it.

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Originally Posted by RaiKo

Yes I know you're one of top class manager in the forum. I bet some devs might not be aware of info in terms of the result of mechanism they build and game bugs than you. I was not trying to tell you how the things gonna work in this game, was trying to explain the math versus in simulation engine that is where the most of managers are mistaken. Let's say they may think a player who has 300% passing skill must easily send the ball behind the oppo. defender who has 120% tackling. +180 gap the first thing that spring to their mind, but the actual difference in overall quality calculation is only +9 in local tournaments and also the effectiveness of the skill's nerfed values above 200% give the weak player a significant chance to win the duel against your strong player. I agree that his squad and the team chemistry (this is not meaning of TB or PB) must have been better than you in this case. And other parameters like luck factor we already know and have to accept that we cannot win all matches and the titles no matter what we did on the ground.

About performance of the players, Yes this is not new for me, the rating system has been changed and updated, still monitoring to understand it.

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I know. Like I said, my post was explaining it is expected of this game. I didn't complain when I lost and I ain't complaining now. It's more of me sharing my experience which should also act as a consolation for the threadstarter as there are players out there who face the same difficulties. I always appreciated when others understood my pain rather than telling me its my fault for something they assume i didn’t do well.

I understand you are one of those who believes it is the fault of the player but this is a theory that cannot be proven. I will accept everything you guys mentioned as fact if you or Khris say you work for them or received direct confirmation from an employee like how Reeves used to advise us. But we all know being transparent means being accountable and most would prefer to keep things ambiguous.

I don't agree with your explanation that other parameters are the cause. It is purely scripted that we should lose some trophies. You will lose no matter what you do. It's part and parcel of this game. I don't understand why players try to rationalise everything. All games are build this way to tell you more investment is required or to make sure no individual player is deemed exceptionally outstanding especially one that challenges them. It could also simply be to keep it competitive between league rivals or knockout opponents.

I apologize for my hostile response earlier but I tend to react negatively when spoken to like a noob. I respect those who show others respect. Of course I know it wasn't your intention but it sure reads like that

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Originally Posted by EastsiderSG

I know. Like I said, my post was explaining it is expected of this game. I didn't complain when I lost and I ain't complaining now. It's more of me sharing my experience which should also act as a consolation for the threadstarter as there are players out there who face the same difficulties. I always appreciated when others understood my pain rather than telling me its my fault for something they assume i didn’t do well.

I understand you are one of those who believes it is the fault of the player but this is a theory that cannot be proven. I will accept everything you guys mentioned as fact if you or Khris say you work for them or received direct confirmation from an employee like how Reeves used to advise us. But we all know being transparent means being accountable and most would prefer to keep things ambiguous.

I don't agree with your explanation that other parameters are the cause. It is purely scripted that we should lose some trophies. You will lose no matter what you do. It's part and parcel of this game. I don't understand why players try to rationalise everything. All games are build this way to tell you more investment is required or to make sure no individual player is deemed exceptionally outstanding especially one that challenges them. It could also simply be to keep it competitive between league rivals or knockout opponents.

I apologize for my hostile response earlier but I tend to react negatively when spoken to like a noob. I respect those who show others respect. Of course I know it wasn't your intention but it sure reads like that

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I don't work for them I'm just a fried potato lol :rolleyes: :cool:

For me its all about perception, there is a point where you can feel what is happening, the distances, when something works, when something doesn't, so the guides I wrote about the game process are just an attempt of a close interpretation, to describe the process that the engine does in a comprehensible way for every single user.

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Originally Posted by khris

I don't work for them I'm just a fried potato lol :rolleyes: :cool:

For me its all about perception, there is a point where you can feel what is happening, the distances, when something works, when something doesn't, so the guides I wrote about the game process are just an attempt of a close interpretation, to describe the process that the engine does in a comprehensible way for every single user.

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Collecting data, playing friendlies and getting great dominance and contributive stats just means the opponent’s ratios/stats are higher than ours when you lose. Asking us to spend resources for no real increase in knowledge. Its bs if you ask me. I told your student raiko my league opponent was better trained and he tells me all other kinds of explanations why i lost......my opponent simply had 300 whites and 1 percent greys and won despite being lower quality. Advising others without listening/reading

Precisely why I don’t think too much of all these things being mentioned. Team chemistry, nerfed ratings and all these parameters just point towards, losses can be expected no matter how good your team is and the cause cannot be determined or defined easily. Whats the difference? We cant pinpoint which parameters will be used for any particular match. Simply put is dont blame the engine or system when you lose, the fault is yours.

I want to be educated by successful players who can achieve success with as little as possible. I need to see a proven track record. Not players who have been playing really long but are on break half their career. Thanks but no thanks. We should agree to disagree.