4-5-1 V style counter for 4-4-2 ?

Hi friends. Today is qualification day for cup. From now on i would prefer to change my formation game by game. My first opponent use 4-4-2 classical formation. My squad harmony allows me to play with 4-5-1 V style.I want to use 3N-4-1-2 but i havent got left winger so i choose v style.

The problem is im not sure about arrows that i can use and also mentality, passing style etc. Could you guys give some tips about these ? thanks a lot in advance.


OPPONENT FORMATION Attachment 50504



MY FORMATIONAttachment 50505

Attachment 50509

I use this arrow build

Offensive Mentality
Passing down to the flanks
Half pitch pressure
Long Passing
Zonal Marking


But I lose 3-0 against same level opponent. At 2nd minute conceded a penalty goal and when concede 3rd goal I swap my old 4-3-3 formation that was not effect at all.

So what was my mistake ? What did i miss ? Are there any impressive methods to change everything in 2nd leg ?

Hello,
4-1-2-1-2 ND is the counter tactic for 4-4-2!
I played always 4-1-2-1-2 and i have almost all the games won.

tomorrow i'll play Narrow Diamond. Which instructions do you use ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeuerOFR

Hello,
4-1-2-1-2 ND is the counter tactic for 4-4-2!
I played always 4-1-2-1-2 and i have almost all the games won.

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From the table on Page 1 in the pinned Counter-Formations thread at the top of this forum:

Formation 4-4-2 - Counter Formations 3N-4-1-2, 4-5-1 V-Style, 3N-2-2-2-1 Butterfly.

Narrow Diamond is not one of the recommended counters, but if you are having success with it, that's OK for you, you may have the players to pull it off.

Personally, I use 4-5-1V against 4-4-2 Classic, but that's because I have AML/AMR players that on a good day, tear apart any formation they come up against, but I wouldn't recommend using 4-5-1V against a formation which has been found to be unsuited to it, in the way you are recommending ND against Classic.

@ Jackers, one of the issues I can see with your orders is that you are using long passing with offensive. With attacking I would use mixed passing. The only arrows I use are reds on the AML/AMR. The blues on your MCs and reds on DL/DR are pulling the players out of the positions they should be in to match your opponents formation. In general, I've found that any red arrows on defensive players are not helpful.

Given your match situation and what is needed in the second leg, I would get rid of the arrows except those on the AML/AMR, go defensive, flanks, long passing, half-pitch, zonal and switch on counter attacking - but that's me and what I would do - you need to decide whether that is good advice for you in your situation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talisman

Given your match situation and what is needed in the second leg, I would get rid of the arrows except those on the AML/AMR, go defensive, flanks, long passing, half-pitch, zonal and switch on counter attacking - but that's me and what I would do - you need to decide whether that is good advice for you in your situation.

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I need at least 3 goals to go on. If I play with defensive approach, can I score that much ?

And also the blue arrows was useless. I added them to make crowded defensive wall but I guess opponent team has red arrowed wingers and they broke that wall. I second that your suggestion. Thanks for all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jackers

I need at least 3 goals to go on. If I play with defensive approach, can I score that much ?

And also the blue arrows was useless. I added them to make crowded defensive wall but I guess opponent team has red arrowed wingers and they broke that wall. I second that your suggestion. Thanks for all.

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I have had one of my teams play away at League leaders, use 4-5-1V in defensive/counter mode and win 5-0. But that was my team, who I know, and I predicted/guessed right about the tactical intentions of my opposition, who I could see the match history of and learn a little of how they played.

It is also the way I would play against unknown opposition in a knockout situation because attacking tends to be the way most managers play in that case. You may be lucky and be up against that sort of gung-ho type, and pull it off.

Equally well, you may be up against a manager who will want to play defensively and conserve his lead (you don't mention whether the first leg was home or away, so I can't try and guess that in your case), in which case the match will be a bit of a stalemate, and if you are present you will have to experiment with attacking options (in that case turn off the counter option and use mixed passing).

I'm not saying doing what I say will or will not get you through, but it is the sort of situation in which you will learn more about the abilities of your team and how they (and you) will react while in this situation, for future occasions.

All I can do is advise you on the sort of decisions you have to make with your team, now and when you gain more experience - the sort of thing that makes this game a Football Management game, rather than just a football game.

General advice for your team: Lose a couple of the strikers (nos 3 and 4) and get an ML and another DMC. You are short of wide midfielders, particularly the ML, which you have mentioned yourself, and will definitely need those players, and cover for them. In an emergency, your AML should cover adequately for ML (and AMR for MR) even if you get a 2-3% hit on possession while doing so. Similarly, if you are honing your team for 4-5-1V, the critical defensive position is the DMC - you only have 1, and if he is injured and you don't have the red packs, or more seriously, suspended and you can't use him, you need cover for that position. An MC will cover in an emergency, but you will need to have permanent cover just in case. If you can buy a DC/DMC, all the better, as this will get you cover in both areas, as you haven't got a sub DC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talisman

Equally well, you may be up against a manager who will want to play defensively and conserve his lead (you don't mention whether the first leg was home or away, so I can't try and guess that in your case), in which case the match will be a bit of a stalemate, and if you are present you will have to experiment with attacking options (in that case turn off the counter option and use mixed passing).



All I can do is advise you on the sort of decisions you have to make with your team, now and when you gain more experience - the sort of thing that makes this game a Football Management game, rather than just a football game.

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I thank you very much for your gracious recommendations. 2nd leg will be away. I will use defensive approach and also if i cant score in the first leg i will gradually be aggressive for attacking.

Also grateful for your transfer tips. I wanna get ML/AML immediately. And also buy DMC/DC to cover substitutions. When the league starts I will use different counter tactics.

I have a optimistic feelings to win this qualification. Pray for me :) :)

I'll share my results when it is over.

Good formation!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jackers

I'll share my results when it is over.

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...how did it goes?..

I took Talisman's advice, used 4-5-1 v against 4-4-2. Defensive down the flanks long passing, counter on.. 2nd half changed mixed passing and took counter off. Won 3-2 against a slighly stronger opponent... Thanks for the info!

I took Talisman's advice, used 4-5-1 v against 4-4-2. Defensive down the flanks long passing, counter on.. 2nd half changed mixed passing and took counter off. Won 3-2 against a slightly stronger opponent... Thanks for the info!

Glad that helped, Kylos. Still waiting to hear from Jackers, though.

In my experience 4-5-1V is one of those formations which relies on really good players in key positions. The defensive part is strong and takes care of itself, it is the offensive part which is the tricky bit, and I really didn't get on with 4-5-1V until I got a couple of strong wingers (see this post Special Skills discussion) - with these wingers I can almost put any striker in at the front and the attack flows to the extent that I have about 90% success against any formation that is countered by 4-5-1V.

Glad to see their is a win

here ihave another counter formation for 4-4-2

4-3-1-2. 4 defenders (DL - DC - DC - DR), 3 midfielders (MC), 1 attacking midfielder (AMC) and 2 strikers. With defensive team mentality, focus passing through the middle, pressing style own half, tackling style normal, passing style mixed, marking style zonal and checked both forced counter attack and offside trap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buster Keaton

Glad to see their is a win

here ihave another counter formation for 4-4-2

4-3-1-2. 4 defenders (DL - DC - DC - DR), 3 midfielders (MC), 1 attacking midfielder (AMC) and 2 strikers. With defensive team mentality, focus passing through the middle, pressing style own half, tackling style normal, passing style mixed, marking style zonal and checked both forced counter attack and offside trap.

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Dont want to risk it....

Attachment 51090

Playing the opponent that won above.

I am sorry for your loss :confused:

Did you play with or without arrows?

The above screenshot was opponents in the league, not mine... Though I did lose to him yesterday 3-2 :D (with 4-5-1v)

Here's my contribution, played defensive way, with counter on and long passing. Also he's 8 quality points higher than me.

Attachment 51240

Oh...and i forgot to say..i haven't got wings! Played with two ST's as them!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talisman

From the table on Page 1 in the pinned Counter-Formations thread at the top of this forum:

Formation 4-4-2 - Counter Formations 3N-4-1-2, 4-5-1 V-Style, 3N-2-2-2-1 Butterfly.

Narrow Diamond is not one of the recommended counters, but if you are having success with it, that's OK for you, you may have the players to pull it off.

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forget dat bullsh0t... what is the recommendation against old mourinho? (3N-2W-3N-0-2)... it says narrow diamond... >>>
HAD MY GREATEST 2 losses from dat advice :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

btw mate and me always using narrowd diamond against 4-4-2 and the success rate is somewhere above 95% :rolleyes:

dat counter database is a little bit outdatet and not up2date imho...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gabez Teh

forget dat bullsh0t... what is the recommendation against old mourinho? (3N-2W-3N-0-2)... it says narrow diamond... >>>
HAD MY GREATEST 2 losses from dat advice :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

btw mate and me always using narrowd diamond against 4-4-2 and the success rate is somewhere above 95% :rolleyes:

dat counter database is a little bit outdatet and not up2date imho...

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I use 4-5-1V against 4-4-2 and get 95%+ wins against it - depends if you've got the players that enable you to take advantage of the formation. I tried ND against 4-4-2 and got tanned on the wings - the oppos ML and MR got all the goals... Just because one counter has broken doesn't mean the whole table is cr*p...

The following are my three favorite approaches against the 4-4-2 classic.

1. Mirror it
2. 4-1-2-1-2 Narrow Diamond.
3. 4-1-2-1-2 Wide Diamond or 4-3w-1-2. This setup is if I suspect they're better offensive threats are on the flanks, or are passing down the flanks

As for formations of note,

Someone in my league has won three straight against either 4-4-2 classic or 4-2-2-2 hexagon with the 4-3w-2n-1 X-Mas tree. Among these wins, was a 2:1 win against a token buyer running 4-4-2 classic.

Very nice! Thanks

BIG WRONG!

451v is counter attack tactic
So your order must be
Normal / Defence Mental
Flank
Own Pitch
Mix pass
Counter yes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talisman

I use 4-5-1V against 4-4-2 and get 95%+ wins against it - depends if you've got the players that enable you to take advantage of the formation. I tried ND against 4-4-2 and got tanned on the wings - the oppos ML and MR got all the goals... Just because one counter has broken doesn't mean the whole table is cr*p...

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and i hope you realised dat counter-bull**** is old :rolleyes: it's time to up2date a little bit or* :rolleyes: We are playing with 7+7+5 seasons with my friends and ALL of our ND vs 442 (and we had lot of ND vs 442 clash coz 2 popular formations) had 95%+ success...

*ur stating you got opposite results against mine... that proove one thing all of this counter brainstorms are overhyped and overthinked.... this game is too random (still) thats for sure :(

I'm giving this a go today (451 V, flanks , defensive, mixed, hard tackle, zonal marking) will let you know how I get on!

Still prefer long passing when counter attacking in on. Rather use mixed passing and turn off counter...

Won 2-0! flanks counter on defensive against top of the league . Red arrows on aml amr only. I would do long passing but the risk is you give the ball away more

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hope Rugg

Won 2-0! flanks counter on defensive against top of the league . Red arrows on aml amr only. I would do long passing but the risk is you give the ball away more

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Well done bud

what orders would you use in general against an attacking 4-2-2 with equal strength,he always seems to play attacking any help would be great in a very tough league this year lv 8 il try upload pics for you,any help given a big thank you

Attachment 52643Attachment 52644
again any help greatly recieved

played NormalAttachment 52646
Flank
Own Pitch
Mix pass
Counter yes

friends attendance n crowd always helps if stadium full i use a formula for max attendance

played NormalAttachment 52646
Flank
Own Pitch
Mix pass
Counter yes

friends attendance n crowd always helps if stadium full i use a formula for max attendance

Is this still valid tactic today?

It's after 4 years dude. How many pages did you go back?

Tiger FC level 1