So as to make it more realistic
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So as to make it more realistic
There was already a thread about this a few days ago.
Why creating a New one.
Disagree.. If teams are gaining a star from relegation then I give a huge -1. Too easy to manipulate.
Nope, why should they gain a star? The players are just given their stars back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv8r
Why? Because you are transitioning between levels. You already lose a star when getting promoted. Keeping stars would not work either, let me explain.Quote:
Originally Posted by redsnoopy
Speaking from level 13 perspective. A 5* player with 81 quality is in my team. Now at level 13, 5* indicates a player with rating 80-84. Now I would get relegated with that player. He would be 5* with the same quality bracket in level 12. Is simply isn't possible to have a 5* player with 80-84 quality in level 12, he would have to be 6*. Do you see what I mean? The player would have to GAIN a star so that it reflects the quality and star ratings of the lower level. That's why they have to gain stars... or lose 5 quality and you know how people would react to that!
Nothing wrong in gaining a star as it reflects reality. Eg if Rooney from Man U drops together with Man U to the lower league, his 5 star ability in upper league has to be reflected correctly as six star in lower league, if not, there is no difference between him and a weaker 5 star lower league player who was already in the lower league. Rooney's relative skills in lower league compared to the players in lower league is much more pronounced there
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv8r
Nothing wrong with that? There's everything wrong with that, technically speaking one could "tank" for 5 seasons in a row, get relegated 5 times and have a fully 9* team that's wrecking **** in the level. Then when they get promoted, they'll get an easy run in the CL as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by redsnoopy
Now you compare that with someone spending money to get a good team and someone exploiting a relegation system to get a good team.
Notwithstanding that playing for one season in every six would be utterly pointless, that could never be.Quote:
Originally Posted by dv8r
Every time you dropped a division/level through relegation your players would gain a star by the proposed system. For your example to work 6*, 7* and 8* teams would have to be relegated first - which is extremely unlikely to happen!
not to mention, who would spend a few months just to get better going back and forth between leagues when they couldve gotten much better by getting promoted the previous seasons? promotions mean more money and skill points. i think not making the CL is punishment enough for some people. lower the promotion to just 4, and probably 3-4 demotees should be good enough
you should know this well that tanking a season doesnt automatically mean youll be 1st in last place. as with the other random 80-20% somehow the illegal formations could win, and probably get promoted
dV8r is spot on - It wouldn't work, and his explanation is exactly what i was thinking.
What if Rooney and ManU WANT to be relegated to lower level league so they could nominate the whole league, CL.. and even CUP (depend on how many level they "down rate" or in another word, how many star they gain)Quote:
Originally Posted by redsnoopy
There will be managers, some one like you or me, instead of trying to build his team stronger, want to play with some one weaker, win titles, get better trophy room ;) Now I'm talking realistic because tanking isn't good enough )))
Thats a pathetic statement. Wanting to always play weaker teams so that you can win? really? - As for your Man utd theory - thats even more pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThichDaBongFC
2 position bottom , will relegationQuote:
Originally Posted by redsnoopy
You pointed it out !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Symons
Yes, and being decreased 5 qualities (1 star) I suggest!Quote:
Originally Posted by duchao
Jesus, what a bright idea :confused:
Common guys. People already tank so that they can improve their team, and be even more competitive the following season. Relegation would mean they could get even stronger. And what would you do if a team who has already 9* players decides to get relegated, just because???
I tanked last season. I'm not the strongest team in my current league, but at least i'm back at the top. And i'm seating in the largest amount of tokens, boosters and money i've ever had. That means i'll remain competitive for, at least, a couple more seasons. That's why you tank. If i had been relegated, i'd now have a 6 to 7 star team, not giving a chance to other competitors. And if you really want to tank, you'll manage to do it, troll results or not.
You take a star??? What, you'll deduct skill points out of a player? A player gets worse because his team was relegated??? and you say all that in name of making this more realistic????? :cool:
Untrue. You have 2 separate teams in your squad, 11 players of low quality (about 2* or 3*) who will manipulate the cup and the remaining to use for future seasons. You leave all your strong players on the bench apart from the cup... and there you have it, a way to exploit the relegation system. Oh, and you do get an easy cup each seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by 4am
You'd be surprised what people can do. I pointed out the flaws and people will think the same as me...completely possible that they'll get relegated a few seasons in a row, use their weak team for the league and their strong team for the cup. People already manipulate the cup, what makes you think they won't do something like getting relegated to manipulate the league and CL too?Quote:
Originally Posted by littledude072
Eh, people manipulate the cup in ways that are not negative for their team in general. Keeping quality low and buying new players after the cup drawing is not the same as getting relegated in order to promote again.Quote:
Originally Posted by dv8r
I do agree with the point that people are going to abuse this. But then again, my opinion is that abuse should be punished in a certain way and not necessarily the system that they abuse. Considering the amount of people that play this game and the lack of visible effort on the side of Nordeus, I don't think it's likely for them to be able to deal with abuse in any form though.
If there is to be a promotion/relegation system, then there has to be more incentive to win and gain promotion than to lose and be relegated. You would rather have teams fighting to stay in the same league than to be relegated. The only incentives at present is cash and the increased quality of players.
Another option if a team is relegated, is to remove by sale or even better, reduced sale, 4 or 5 of the most expensive players as a relegation penalty.
In big problem is that this game is based on the quality of the players, star rating system, based on the level you are.
To have relegations the game should be setled in divisions, 1st division, 2nd division, etc. Like almost manager soccer games, based in real championships.
i am for the relegation of the 2 lowest teams. so ppl will be more commited to their teams.
But the game is split into divisions alreadyQuote:
Originally Posted by Dman2pt
Level 1 being the lowest.
They do need a ceiling ie Level 30, so that managers have a target. Then all that would happen is the lower levels become the ever expanding base of the pyramid as more new teams enter. The cream then rises and guess what, Nordeus will really make money as token sales become the thing.
Useless as the bottom 2 teams r usually abandoned. So, it won't effect. also, if the bottom 2 teams r not abandoned, they r being tanked and as already stated above, relegation will be another advantage to tankers.Quote:
Originally Posted by gohkimhock
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv8r
Spot On!!!!!
And, BTW, why r we even discussing this??? As if Nordeus will listen to us and make this change which should require much more of "testing" than the friendly request system If they r taking 2 years to test that, then they will keep testing this relegation system till Apocalypse..........
Have you even read the thread? - It wouldn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by gohkimhock
or they could just remove some percentage of fans from those that drop, lose lots of morale, some other things and whatnot. no team IRL would strive to be demoted. yet again if someone does exploit it i probably shouldnt be surprised.
and to those promoted, increase the number of fans added as usual. whats more tempting than getting more XP for playing in a higher league? better token/cash sponsors.
Yeah, demoted teams should:Quote:
Originally Posted by littledude072
1) Lose a large percentage of their fans (as they would in real)
2) Lose a couple of their best players (as many real footballers have a clause in their contract stating they are able to leave the club if the club demotes)
3) Get all morale set to 0 (as would happen in real)
4) Lower income and token gains for the duration of a season (as sponsorship would naturally decrease)
In fact, they should probably add those negatives to the people tanking on purpose. But there is no way to tell if someone does so on purpose and it's far easier to manipulate what position you end as when you tank on purpose than if you were just not good enough.
I don't think its a good idea, if there is no penalty (losing quality, $, token..) some will try to be relegated in purpose as explaining aboveQuote:
Originally Posted by gohkimhock
I don't agree with decreased token gains but everything else would at least try to prevent exploitation...though people can always find a way round itQuote:
Originally Posted by Killerbee
I think relegation is a good idea, but there must be found another way in order to avoid abuses. Maybe lowering the quality of the players by 5 and relegating only teams that end up in 13th or 14th position, which are almost always inactive teams...
Some of you are dont agree with tanking Why?
Whats the diference between tanking and Buying tokens?
Tanking is the only way that the non token buyers have to try to compete with the token buyers, sacrificing one season to because stronger.
I am not against those who buy tokens, evryone look for there wallet, but do not spank those who try to compete with them by tanking.
U stole my words!!!! I was just going to write this same damn thing right now on this thread that if tanking is unfair, buying tokens is also unfair!!!!! I agree with u more then I would agree with anything here on the forum!!!!! Not one but a 10000 likes for u!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman2pt
Interesting thread .... as far as I'm concerned people can do as want ... the more teams trying to lose out there, the more chance I've got of winning.
The thing I don't understand about tanking is ... where's the fun in it? ... a month of trying to lose ... so you may or may not get an advantage the next month .. I'd be bored and depressed by that very quickly, I wouldn't have the patience.
I want to play to win .. always .. and if I lose I lose .
Tanking is NOT the only way for non T to compete with T buyers.....refer Vent thread. Also refer abandoned teams where frustrated T buyers, who have spent good money developing their team and facilities, simply give up to "unfair" results.
Tanking is a crutch for those who simply give up and will not compete for every available point. Better to have tried and failed, knowing that next season is around the corner and with it comes new opportunities. After all this is not just a game, it's more than that.
dv8r: Not quite sure what you mean by this...
If, as widely suggested, the Cup draw is based upon your 14 strongest players then the 2* and 3* won't be taken into consideration. Or am I missing your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by dv8r
The point I'm trying to make is... You have 22 players in your squad. The first 11 will consist of 2* or 3* players and you'll use this 11 to get yourself relegated. The other 11 players would be stronger and this will be your future first 11 (after a few seasons). You only play the weaker players in the league to get relegated with and the stronger players in the cup so at least you have something to aim for.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4am
What would happen is... when you get relegated, everyone would have to gain a star to reflect transitioning between leagues. Your stronger players would probably be 6*, then 7* and then 8* and then 9*. Your weaker team will get stronger too but you can easily sell these players and replace with 3* players. Eventually you'll get yourself a fully 9* squad for your first team.
It's a bit hard to explain but I hope you understand. The cup format is irrelevant in this discussion
Perfectly clear; thanks for the explanation.Quote:
Originally Posted by dv8r
It still won't get you anywhere though. If you tank for three seasons, it'd take another three seasons to return to your starting point. However those players are now six years older...
I have been reading these posts with interest, and one point has not been raised at all. How would the logistics of the game work if relegation was brought in?
At the moment, we have leagues of 14 teams, which at the end of the season, 7 of them are promoted, whilst the other 7 remain where they are. So, lets take a typical scenario. Let's say it is level 6. At completion, the top 7 go to level 7 to replace the 7 teams from that level, who went to 8. Back to the original level 6, the bottom 7 teams are now joined by 7 teams coming from level 5. So the numbers balance out evenly.
If relegation was brought in, how would it work? In a league of 14 teams, with the top 7 going up, and the bottom 2 going down, that would leave just 5 teams. With 7 coming up to join them, who would fill the other two places, without a major game reconstruction.
And why should i be in an hurry? No matter how often i get promoted, i won't catch up with the top levels... because they are also getting promoted. And some of them complain that it gets way too hard to buy 5* players, because there's no one higher level selling them.Quote:
It still won't get you anywhere though. If you tank for three seasons, it'd take another three seasons to return to your starting point. However those players are now six years older...
At those top levels there's no way a non token buyer/farmer like me could compete against a token buyer/farmer with a scout team.
And, of course , six years later you would have your players 6 years older, but if you don't tank, they would be older too and 1 star.
Besides, comparing the 2 scenarios, you could be 3 level ahead, with no won titles, or you could be at the same level, with a bunch of tittle on the bag...
You guys can't compare this model with real life football. In real life football there is a defined finishing line, get to the first division/premier League... You can't get to an higher level at your country. In this game you don't have such a line, specially if you're playing alone, like i am.
If you're playing with a bunch of your friends that may be different, as you want to keep up with them. For a lonely player, all that matters are the tittles.
No reason at all. It's your game, you play it how you wish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flinger
You'd also have considerably greater spending power with which to replace those players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flinger
Not for me ... and I don't play with anyone else either. But that's one of the game's best features - it allows you to play your game, your way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flinger
Whatever method you chose to adopt, incorporating relegation would require a major undertaking on the development team's part so I think we can all agree it's unlikely to happen. Interesting to hear the various views, nonetheless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raykco
there we go, forgot about that losing player/s thing. im sure ronaldo and bale would ditch if real were demoted. thahts the real push people need to avoid intentional demotionQuote:
Originally Posted by Killerbee
tone down the promotees to 4 and demotees to 2-4
anyways i looked over at the nordeus board, someone requested relegation as part of his 'make the game better' suggestion. its planned by nordeus, dont know if relegations going to be a part of it
all in all, its been a fun debate, shouldve added a poll