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Thread: Association tournaments

  1. #1
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    Jan 2017
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    Association tournaments

    I have always thought there was something wrong with how the first, second, third and fourth positions are won in the tournament. The first position is okay there is nothing wrong with that but the second and third is not always clear cut. I will give you an example,
    if you have two strong groups A vs B on first semi final A loses to B automatically A is fighting for third position. what happens when C vs D are both very weak groups compared to A and B. C wins but never goes against A to prove if C deserves second place. Because from there C goes against B. so C and A never meet assuming D is the weaker group. so when Cstill loses against B its assumed C is still better matched then A?. Even when A plays against D wins and gets more points then when C played against D. Let me give you a real example:
    Tournament results semi finals
    A(13pts):B(19pts)
    C(18pts)(15pts)

    Tournament results finals
    C(13pts):B(19pts)
    note:C has same points as A. But sometimes C may suffer a greater loss on points against B than A and still be declared second.

    A(21pts)(12pts)
    Note: A has better results against D then C.
    But here C is second place and A third.

    Situations like these shows A is stronger than C. If the tournament semi finals had started with A against D, A would have finished second. Now my suggestion!

    Since there is no problem with first position, in this game i only see the problem with second and third position since the loser on first A never meets the winner of second C to determine the strongest; the position of second and third should be determined according to performance with the forth and the first winner or points should be added up. If A performed better against group B and D more then C's performance against group B and D then A should be declared second according to performance and points. Coz when you add total tournament points for A they have 34 total and C has only 31 but C is declared second...? You see where the problem is?
    Sometimes tournament results to me didn't make sense on second and third positions as shown.

  2. #2
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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  3. #3
    Apprentice Kelpie Grant's Avatar
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    Arent Asso matches just straight knockouts? so who is stronger between 2nd and 3rd is beside the point for placings.Its all about the semi final matchups. If the engine that decides who plays who seperates the different Assos by strength (star rating) which it should be doing roughly and if you have matchups A v b and C v d where capital depicts stronger team then the process logic would be A beats b ,C beats d so finals are A v B ,c v d which is strong to weak. However this is not always the case when the engine only has depleted resources to search such as toward the end of a server search where it will just best match the remainder and maybe deliver uneven matchups,
    Then there are the variables to add into the equation which influence the direct results of each matchup such as attendance , formations , team orders etc. For example teams A v b again ,at what point if any does a disparity in attendance which effects possession bonus in the favour of the weaker team b overwhelm team A causing either b to win or making the result much closer and therefore distorting the illusion of relative strength.
    Using this logical trail the op surmise that result in points comparative to opponent determines strength then fails and is shown to hold no relative meaning. In short results against given opponent have little bearing or relationship to the relative variable strengths of a small pool of teams,
    LEAGUE WINNER 8
    LEAGUE RUNNER UP 5
    CUP WINNER 4
    CUP RUNNER UP 4
    C.L. WINNER 2
    C.L. RUNNER UP 4
    TREBLES 1
    SUPER CUP WINNER 2
    CUP DOUBLES 3
    CUP TREBLES 1