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Someone explain to me a little more detail on the use of arrows?
I know they are used to go on the attack or the defense to go!
I wanted to know something more explained.
If the players are with arrows has a larger physical attrition and in what situations should I use ...
Arrows effectively make your player more versatile.
For example if you like to use a DMC, but your opponent doesn't have an AMC, you can put a blue arrow on him to make him act as a DC, or a Red arrow on him to make him act like an MC.
Note, using arrows isn't as effective as using the proper player for the role you're trying to create, but it helps.
I always put red arrows on my AMR/AML as I attack down the flanks.
Plus, if you're using a player in a position that the opponent has no counter player, stick a red arrow on him and he'll exploit this.
Eg, if your opponent is playing a narrow diamond, with no flanking midfielders, and you're playing a 4-4-2, stick red arrows on your wingers.
If you're playing a DMC and your opponent doesn't have an AMC, but 3 ST, then stick a blue arrow on him to reinforce your defence.
That's just my logic anyway, it's served me well, hope it helps.
Thank you! :D
Great answer above, very comprehensive. Just to add - yes it does increase the work a player does, so he gets tired faster but not that much faster
If this is anything like FM (which I'm pretty sure it is)
red arrow - player moves to the spot whenever YOU have the ball.
blue arrow - player moves to the spot whenever your OPPONENT has the ball.
ex.
4312 counter formation with red arrow on AM would be a bad idea. Your AM would walk up between your strikers and you'd have a big hole in your midfield having not many options to pass the ball from your defense other than lobbing the ball into cluster****ed front line.
On the other hand, 433 longball counter with red arrow on offensive wings would be great vs 3 men defense. You have your two wingers running into empty spaces every time you have the ball.
So why bother with blue arrows on defenders? or red arrows on striker they can't go anywhere...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosin
I think it's the other way around:
Red arrow - player stays forward even when the opponent has the ball.
Blue arrow - player stays back even when you have the ball.
No arrow - players moves back and forth depending on possession.
Quote:
Originally Posted by olina1
examples:
blue arrow on defenders : they fall back even further the moment team loses ball while giving minimal help to mid.
Pro : Good at stopping longball or/and counter plays, or when having to mark that pacy player who are stacked with stats.
con : Your mid-defense line starts stretching and thins out. You lose possession.
fix : have team on defense so it doesn't stretch in the first place.
extra : but you lose control of the field in some critical areas. DM is a good idea to fill the gap, but can't help team turning into defense mode.
Red arrow on defenders : they go foward with the ball. Your mid gets crowded.
Pro : more players in mid. easier for you to retain possession.
Tradeoff : huge space behind you.
when : if you need to overwhelm their field. short pass, challenge on whole pitch, attacking.
Fix : pacy defenders or offside trap.
extra : go for it if you are sure you can contain them.
Red arrows on AM : turns them into shadow strikers.
Pro : good at breaking offside traps or getting passes from your upfront striker
con : mid starts losing possession.
striker
red : gets upfront and challenges. Whatever you do, you are gonna do it with their defender.
pro : if you can kick a ball, it's a shooter.
con : offside traps are gonna piss you off, everything and their mom is gonna get in the way when pass comes by.
when : if you can contain your opponent and your wings are dominating. Just keep pumping the ball.
NOTE : A lot of my FM experience are mixed in. I'm sure I'm a noob in t11 than most of you guys. Take it with a grain of salt, but if the system IS based on FM, it's how the arrow works.
basically
red = this player is gonna exploit this space/player only if I get the ball.
blue = oh **** backup plan.
edit : just to clarify. every player falls back when you lose the ball, and they go forward when you retain it. There's no 'let's ignore where the ball is going cuz I'm cool like that' move. The arrow determines how you act the moment your team loses/gains the ball, not when the ball comes nearby. A winger with red will be running at their wingback the moment you gain the ball, allowing your DM/CM to try a long ball at him right after interception instead of waiting for him to get into the spot. It gives you option to time your players. Arrows can also sometimes be toxic because your Red AM could have just stuck around and distributed the ball instead of charging to their defense every time you intercept. Again, I really don't know how much of FM engine they incorporated. I'm just saying this based on FM, so take it with a pinch of salt.
I really think you're looking too much into it, If you refer to my previous explanation, I assume it just makes the player either move up the field in a more attacking role, or track back in a defensive role, in other words:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosin
Red arrow DMC = Shadow MC
Blue arrow DMC = Shadow DC
Thats my experience over 4 seasons.
All we can do is assume as Nordeus doesn't provide much in the form of a game manual, most of the stuff we know has been determined by experience and trial and error by fellow managers.
I'll second the above - the game engine is much simpler than FM. It may even be a bit more basic than CM circa early 90s...
Red arrow = player runs forward more often
Blue arrow = player drops deep more often
No arrow = player stays in position
Basically:
None knows for sure, as Nordeus is so retarded that he didn'gt even bother to explain. Like selling a new thing without instructions.
At the present day, none apart devs know it. Hence, everything wrote here can or won't be true.
You could say the same for almost any element of the game, like what difference does a formation make. But we can make a rough guess according to our experienceQuote:
Originally Posted by Morgan O'Bree
And Nordeus has given some answers relating to arrows - for example they said that while you can't play wide forwards, AML/R with red arrows would be roughly equivalent
Sure there is... if you're leading and want to play safe, you tell your defenders to stay back no matter what,Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosin
and if you play counter attack, you tell your striker to keep forward and not help with defense.
Also, this games is just mimicking FM, and in no way anyway nearly as sophisticated as you make it...
No, he is not looking too much into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sxrenity
The way it was explained to me by a vet was this:
Red arrow: moves forward when YOU have possession.
Blue arrow: moves back when YOUR OPPONENT has possession.
Very simple.
so a DC/DMC playing in 3-1-4-2 with red arrow:
When opponent has possession:
------ST---ST-------
---------------------
-ML---MC--MC----MR-
--------DMC---------
----DC--DC--DC------
When you have possession:
------ST---ST-------
---------------------
-ML-MC-DMC-MC-MR-
---------------------
----DC--DC--DC------
I have also been told that it is not useless to put blue arrows on defenders and red arrows on strikers:
Blue arrows on DC - Apparently you can keep DCs from advancing and getting caught out, but they also wont go out to block the long shots.
Red arrows on ST - Apparently you can keep STs up in the box with a more attacking mentality.
I have been trying putting blue arrows on my left and right DC and leaving my middle DC with no arrows to test this. I consistently have the best GA in almost every season that there are no token buyers in my league.
Otherwise, it is useless to put red arrows on STs and blue arrows on DC.
ALSO, I heard that you put blue arrows on your defenders to keep them from running all the way up and accepting passes from your attackers. Most of the time, its a pass to an open player and its your DC who facking misses! I cant confirm this but I know there is a thread on this and someone knows for sure.
The only thing i can say almost for sure is that red arrows helps counters. Sticking a red upon an AM or ST will make him receive the counter's ball. SO you avoid having counters lead by your defenders or midfielders leaving the job to your real forwards.
You know that? Or you assume that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Paivinha
And THAT is what seems to get so many people frustrated with T11. They assume things work like other games, and then get pissed when things don't actually conform to their expectations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosin
I haven't played FM, but based on what we've heard from Nordeus, what can be found by digging through the old forums and walkthroughs (via search engine), my experience with T11, and what others have said about FM, it's a certainty that T11's system is quite different from FM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosin
Based on my experience and observation the actually effect seems to be to move the player HALF a block.Quote:
Originally Posted by cracicot
So red arrows on a DMC would be Visually thus:
x M x M x TO x M x M x
- - - - - ....... - - D - -
x x D x x ..... x x x x x
I agree. I use blue arrows on my left and right DC as well, and it seems to be very effective at stopping flank attacks from AMR/AML. And it certainly reduces (but does not eliminate) the number of times that they end up far forward on attack.Quote:
I have also been told that it is not useless to put blue arrows on defenders and red arrows on strikers:
Blue arrows on DC - Apparently you can keep DCs from advancing and getting caught out, but they also wont go out to block the long shots.
Red arrows on ST - Apparently you can keep STs up in the box with a more attacking mentality.
I have been trying putting blue arrows on my left and right DC and leaving my middle DC with no arrows to test this. I consistently have the best GA in almost every season that there are no token buyers in my league.
I've never really tried using red arrows on strikers
[
I am only repeating what the developers themselves intended for the arrows to work. your experience and observations seem to be a bit skewed from what the devs say and intend. Who am I going to believe...you or the devs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Razz
Maybe they are. The only statement I've seen from nordeus is that an AML with red arrows is equivalent to the winger position someone had asked about. Of course, it's quite possible i've missed further official information. Do you happen to have a link?Quote:
Originally Posted by cracicot
Best/most accurate post in this thread, haha :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan O'Bree
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razz
Ask the Devs
Here are the ones in question:
Can we have wing positions, would be ahead of AMR and AML to each side of the strikers?
There are multiple ways to define roles in football, and the current one is the one we chose. AMR and AML with arrows set to forward would be the wing positions you are asking for
**** So based on this statement of the devs, you would use red arrows to have ANY player act as the position ahead of them, and blue arrows to have a player act as the position behind them. The question is when: when you have possession or not.
I’d like to know why it is an illegal formation to have only 2 defenders. I want to play the old style formation of: Left and Right back, Left, Centre & Right half-backs, Inside Right & Left, and Left & Right Wing supporting Centre Forward. Virtually all teams used to play this way until the 1970′s. Why should I be at a disadvantage because I like this formation.
You can either have DL and DR or centre DC to move forward (by using arrows), and let them organize the game as such. It’s very uncommon for wings now to organize matches, so it is usually done by DMC.
**** They still dont give a 100% answer but this should be enough to confirm what I have been saying.
Yeah. Pretty sketchy info from nordeus. I haven't dug up anything on arrows in the old forums or website either.
My impression based on that statement "There are multiple ways to define roles in football, and the current one is the one we chose." is that T11 is different than other futbol sims
The developers only deal with numbers and then % chance of success of that player's actions.
One factor is the field grid and the other is the skill level of player and the third is the arrows.
The field grid adds or subtracts or does nothing depending on the position of the player.
If you play a player out of position, the skill numbers must go down in certain categories and this also must depend or factor on whether there is an opposing player adjacent and that will affect the % of success of what action the computer decides that player will probably take. (we do not know which)
If you play a player in position with no arrows, the skill numbers remain the same and the % success will be determined by whether there is an opposing player adjacent. If the skill numbers are greater than the opposing player, then the chances of success go up. If the skill numbers are lower then the chances go down.
If you play a player out of position with a red arrow towards his natural spot, then when his side has the ball, his skill numbers go back to normal but when the other team has possession, his numbers will be lowered in certain categories but if he has no adjacent opposition player the penalty for playing out of position should not matter.
If you play a player out of position with a blue arrow towards his natural spot, then when the other side has the ball, his skill numbers go back to normal but when his team has possession, his numbers will be lowered in certain categories but if he has no adjacent opposition player the penalty for playing out of position should not matter.
That is why you should only put players out of position in the vertical and not on the horizontal.
If you put a player in his natural position with a red arrow, he will play ahead one box when his team has possession and that will move him either in the clear or adjacent to an opposing player. If he is in the clear, his skill categories will not be affected and he will have increased odds of making the play if the ball comes to him and will have increased odds of receiving the ball from his mates. If the red arrow moves him adjacent to an opposing player, the odds of success should go down unless the opposing team has set arrows to move the adjacent player to another position with a blue arrow.
If you put a player in his natural position with a blue arrow, he will play behind one box when the other team has possession and that will move him either in the clear or adjacent to an opposing player. If he is in the clear, his skill categories will not be affected and he will have increased odds of making a play if the ball comes to him and will have increased odds of intercepting the ball. If the blue arrow moves him adjacent to an opposing player, the odds of success should go down unless the opposing team has set arrows to move the adjacent player to another position with a red arrow.
That doesn't make numbers sense????
The blue arrow must improve your chances when you are moved adjacent to an opposing player and keep your skill numbers normal when you are moved in the clear.
Unless it has nothing to do with moving the player and only has to do with giving a bonus % to your offense skills when you have the red arrow and a bonus % to your defense skills when the blue arrow is issued. Another % overall when team is set to attacking or defensive and a greater % when set on hard. The physical and mental has a corresponding % deduction when there is a team defense or offense increase.
had someone using blue for ST or red arrow DC? what happen then?
im just use blue for one of my 3 ST that have enough good stat on defense, dunno it work exactly in my head he will act as AMC.. because even im not gave blue arrow hes downgrad his ratings match, however my team lost or win the match.
For red using arrow DC ive never, anyone ever tried and would like to share?
Hi all. What do the red and blue arrows do?
They are used to set the player mentality. The red arrow means the player will play forward attacking. This is good for your strikers and wingers. The blue arrow means they play backward and defensive, great for defenders, huh? No arrow is probably neutral but I'm not very lectured in this.
It's simply the play style, you could setup red arrows on player's to play offense style, and blue is for defense style. Neutral they play there position role.
I wish that was an option for players "To Come Deep to Get the Ball" and also a way to adjust the pace I play a 433 formation not like it is one of my strikers would come deep to get the ball and one of my midfielders.
Perhaps it's a bit complicated for an online game
I do not use arrows as I don't 100% trust them whenever I try to use them they don't seem to make any difference.
I don't use too many arrows as well, but if you have speedy wingers, might be wise to use red arrows as it at least suggests you be utilizing their speed offensively. Or a red arrow on the ST if you counter with long balls. Blue arrows I never use. I'ld rather play more defensive from the orders menu.
How do you set them?
I set up (red) arrows to my wingers to help my ST in scoring and a down (blue) arrow to on DC to be careful in defense.
Then I may switch on-off some of them, depending from the game and score.
Niko- Have you noticed that offensive arrows on wingers make a substantial difference offensively?
I have noticed that when I have a defensive arrow on my AML, he takes the biggest condition bit of all my players but also seem to play like a ML defensively. He still performs really well offensively. When I have no arrow, he loose less conditioning and when I have an offensive arrow, he seems to loose even less conditioning (the lowest of all the players on my team).
It's definitely wild speculation, but it had me thinking that arrows on AMs relieves them of defensive duties or add defensive duties to their game.
I used to play for many seasons with AML-AMR-ST . It's been a long time were STs have a problem at scoring (specially if you use AML-AMR from the flanks).
If I have to use another one attacker, I prefer an AMC (when older seasons I played wit 3-5-2V).
AML and AMR scoring many goals so I believe that yes, the red (up) arrow make them playing more as peripheral strikers.
Now with the live game, we can see that our AML -AMR are following in defense oppo wingers or ML - MR, so if the arrows show the area they like to play, the distance to move back to defense is bigger, so they must loose more condition.
(it's my personal opinion).
Attachment 71764
you must make at least 10 tests and measures and if the result shows almost every time the same, then you can say that there is a clue here.Quote:
I have noticed that when I have a defensive arrow on my AML, he takes the biggest condition bit of all my players
I 'm saying that because there is a "roll dice" as I told somewhere else, in the condition loss.
To be honest, I have NEVER been able to see any observable difference that the arrows are rumoured to make.
There are more than one theories in this topic. I would just say that the arrows have negligible effects and don't do anything important enough to make a difference.
This makes complete sense, not speculation, because the AMx is in the offensive zone naturally so they have to run more to cover defensively and back forward to be offensive (with blue arrows).Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Svanberg
Red arrows would make them stay in the offensive zone more and less in defensive zone, so less running up and down the field.
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