Game engine tweaks - you thoughts?

[Ljepoje]

Things that I have noticed:

Weaker teams achieving more good results than would be expected (even given the random nature of football)

Abandoned, unwatched teams doing better than those with active managers

Illegal formations are penalised in possession, but that has no impact on result


My thoughts:

On the first two points, basically from a business point of view Nordeus wants to keep the game competitive so that you can't just by your way to the top. If you could, F2P players would just abandon the game and it would become a token spending pissing contest

Instead they want F2P players to be encouraged to spend money to improve their team when it is doing well, rather than abandoning it because it loses all the time. Also, they need to encourage people who already spend money to keep spending it. If your team kept winning, with all your scouts playing well and training well, you wouldn't do this

For those who play and watch matches regularly, Nordeus knows you have an interest in this game, that you are invested in it and will earn them money (either buying tokens or through their sponsors, I doubt they care which). You keep doing this and they are happy - even if you go through a season or two of not being happy

To me that seems like punishing your regular users when you should be rewarding them

To Nordeus (honestly, I hope MDK reads some of these posts; many are irate, but often make reasonable points within an angry diatribe)

I understand why you would want to maximise your revenue, I have a business background myself, but this seems to be pushing the approach quite far. I know your userbase is growing and no doubt your revenue too, but what about your per customer earnings and your customer retention rate?

Do your care about existing customers, those that put time an effort into the game, those that build communities around the game such as on this form and other platforms?

Many are extremely frustrated because despite their commitment, you seem to be treating a lot of people like schmucks. Sometimes your tweaking will throw up anomalies - how about some PR to keep your diehard fans informed?


And also, illegal formations - why define something as illegal, fix a possession penalty of 20%, but then effectively have that make no difference whatsoever to the result?

Not only is the PR quite bad, but the actual in game communication is terrible. I've seen many possession focussed threads on here because that is the only dynamic indicator we have as to how our team is doing. If that is essentially worthless, then the game is reduced to pure luck in the eye of the user

When you get to that position, people will think there is no point playing the game because they cannot impact the result. When people feel like that, I'm quite sure they will leave

Bigger companies than this one have lost their way, losing their userbase and collapsing spectacularly. We are all invested in this, I think every regular on this forum wants you to succeed as a business and to keep playing a game they are passionate about - passion that is expressed in commitment but also anger when the feel something is amiss


Honestly, I don't expect anyone to read this or it to have any impact on anyone from Nordeus. It has helped me to get it out of my system, and I think it's a well reasoned post

If anyone read this far - thanks!

Well spoken!

[Incredipede]

I'm quite satisfied... I just keep loosing against teams which have the same quality as me, but if they're a bit weaker I win 17 : 0, 10 : 0 and 6 : 0... weird.

[ew11]

I'm quite satisfied... I just keep loosing against teams which have the same quality as me, but if they're a bit weaker I win 17 : 0, 10 : 0 and 6 : 0... weird.

Soon, you will be losing 5-0 to teams weaker than you, but winning the teams stronger than you.

[Zabanya]

Soon, you will be losing 5-0 to teams weaker than you, but winning the teams stronger than you.

Agreeing absolutely. I win hair-raising wins over people who are a bit better than me and I was dominated by teams weaker than me. Sadly for me I'm one of those stronger teams....

If the game is to compete for lower quality I might as well should sell my whole team and buy 3 star players.

[Incredipede]

Soon, you will be losing 5-0 to teams weaker than you, but winning the teams stronger than you.

That may be true. But I keep thinking about why I win almost every game in the league, even when teams have the same quality as me and even when they choose to use a counter formation, but loose such games in the CL / CUP.

[MDKII]

To Nordeus (honestly, I hope MDK reads some of these posts; many are irate, but often make reasonable points within an angry diatribe)

Please keep in mind that while I attempt to read as many threads as I can, I cannot respond to all of them. Especially in the case where my answer won't contribute to the discussion.

I have read this and I have been investigating whether there have been any changes or not to the game, whether intentional or not, but so far the answer is that there haven't been any changes to anything that affects match outcomes.

This is a discussion that happens with every other new season, when people are most hyped up and preparing for the new League, so reactions are more vocal. But the forum represents a part of the playerbase, not its entirety, so it's easy to think that the entire game is affected by something when you have a few threads on the same topic.

I am also aware that people only have my word to rely upon, and that that isn't enough for some. Sadly, if you've made up your mind, what I say won't change anything. I was asked for a response and I believe you guys deserve one, but if the only thing that will do is just make the reaction be "We don't believe you," then I'll likely refrain from such posts in the future, since like I said, I don't believe in posting in a thread where my post won't make a contribution and help you guys come closer to an answer.

That said, I've also been having my butt handed to me at the start of this season, which does sting considering how hard I tried in the previous one to get to 3rd place.

I'll keep an eye out on this thread, as well as whether we have similar reports elsewhere. So far, there is nothing to indicate anything has affected match results, but I'll see this through as much as I am able to.

[Narf]

MKDII's response makes sense - of course you'll suspect game changes with the new season, especially if you see a pattern that you haven't noticed before. That doesn't mean that something has changed, except probably for some in-game variables (I empasize on this, because it doesn't mean a change in the engine).

Weaker teams achieving more good results than would be expected (even given the random nature of football)

Abandoned, unwatched teams doing better than those with active managers

Illegal formations are penalised in possession, but that has no impact on result

Those are 3 patterns that are indeed true, but I noticed the first one last season and the other two have been known for a long time. This however, is the only point that I agree on in terms of not blaming the game for every absurd situation that you see in it.

I'd like to add some more:

- The timing of injuries seems to be fixed.
- I always get an injury on day 1.
- I always get an injury on one of the last 2 days of the season.
- WE always get 4+ injuries somewhere around the middle of the season, and often 2 of them are in the same match.
- The timing of the matches with illogical results seems to be fixed.
- I've always faced the strongest league competitior either in the first day of the league or the last 2.
- Second CL match is always harder to win.

To clarify on the last one, I don't quite remember previous seasons, but both this and last season I was down 0:2 in that second CL match. Granted - I won both of them anyway, but last season it was against a 10q weaker team and this season I scored 2 late goals (80+ mins) after the opponent team manager joined the game and made 2 substitutions, weakening his defense.

Some of the above may not be 100% correct, but that's because I've tried to be very specific, while those timings may vary. Yesterday however has deffinately been frustrating for a lot of people:

- 3:2 loss, after the opponent got a red card around the 20th minute (0:2 at the time)
- 5:1 loss to a 12q weaker team, using the same formation
- This needs detailed reading, but it's basically a 3* team losing to a 1* team, 4 out of 5
- 72q team losing 1:3 to a 67q team, both playing the same formations
- 55.7q team losing 2:1 to a 36.1q team
- This guy has some more serious problems, they might not be related

Sure, many people complaining - that happens often, you'd probably say. Do you want to know what's in common except for the absurd results? They are ALL from Yesterday. Not one similar thread so far today and not one similar thread from Saturday.
Also, a few threads like the above listed were posted on Friday. This thread I'm replying to right now? Posted on Friday.

"Upsets happen in real-life football." Sure ... and they all happen on the very same day. A coincidence? Really? REALLY?!

Look at my matches ...

This first one was on Saturday, which doesn't fall into the "Yesterday was a bad day for all" category and I am biased in this case of course, but if you ask me - after 2 successful seasons, the game just decides to screw me twice.



Conceded in the 2nd minute, with the very first comment lines in the game - this has never happened to me before, but whatever ... I thought I'd turn it around, I'm stronger after all.
That didn't happen, both my wingers missed a total of 10 one-on-one chances. They played against NOBODY - the opponent doesn't have DR/DL/DMR/DML, not one.
And if you look at the opponent's scorer - it's an AMC. Sure, the second one was from a penalty ... but the first wasn't, and the assistance - from the ST. One ST and one AMC against my 3 DCs and 2 DMCs. I'd accept a goal by the AMR/AMLs, but through the middle in that configuration ... how is that even possible?!



This team was only 1q weaker than me, so a surprise was expected. But a straight red in the 5th minute? Yet another penalty goal. Funny thing is - I dominated possession even with 10 people for the whole match. Then comes the 14th minute and another goal conceded - by their ST, assited by an MC, through the middle where AGAIN I have all of my defensive players. Sure, didn't have a DMC at the time, since he was sent off and it took forever for the substitution to come in (how convenient) ... but it's still 3DCs & 2 MCs against 1 ST, 1 AMC & 2MCs + I play zonal defense, so my ML/MRs should've helped as well against those MCs.
Then I went 3N-2DMC-2(AML/AMR)-3ST (YES, no MC), long balling in a "mixed direction". I had 3 STs and 2 wingers against DL/DC/DR + a DMC. I'll do the math for you - that's 5 attacking players against 4 defensive ones. Look at the damn stats - 15 shots, 8 on goal, 1 goal.

Oddly enough, I'm still in the cup and leading 2:0 after the first leg. And I faced way more stronger opponents in the Cup. Go figure.

[pnr8555]

Look at this! This is what I got! Remember, look at the team levels!!!

[xingular]

You can write and write... Nothing will change.

Just now I have tied with the leaguer of my League. I was winning 0-3 with me and two supports. 12% posession. The team is more o less equal to me. Well, in two minutes he scored 2 goals and the last at 80'.

It happends in every League: there are one team who never lost a match.

More:
6 minutes to do a change. In last coup it cost me a goal because in this 6 minutes I had an injured player.

Yesterday I dominated all the match but never did a move to score a goal. The other team was horrible in quality and seems abandoned.

Unfair & unrealistic. A complete waste of money.
No more tokens, as a result for my part.

[Morgan O'Bree]

Please keep in mind that while I attempt to read as many threads as I can, I cannot respond to all of them. Especially in the case where my answer won't contribute to the discussion.

I have read this and I have been investigating whether there have been any changes or not to the game, whether intentional or not, but so far the answer is that there haven't been any changes to anything that affects match outcomes.

This is a discussion that happens with every other new season, when people are most hyped up and preparing for the new League, so reactions are more vocal. But the forum represents a part of the playerbase, not its entirety, so it's easy to think that the entire game is affected by something when you have a few threads on the same topic.

I am also aware that people only have my word to rely upon, and that that isn't enough for some. Sadly, if you've made up your mind, what I say won't change anything. I was asked for a response and I believe you guys deserve one, but if the only thing that will do is just make the reaction be "We don't believe you," then I'll likely refrain from such posts in the future, since like I said, I don't believe in posting in a thread where my post won't make a contribution and help you guys come closer to an answer.

That said, I've also been having my butt handed to me at the start of this season, which does sting considering how hard I tried in the previous one to get to 3rd place.

I'll keep an eye out on this thread, as well as whether we have similar reports elsewhere. So far, there is nothing to indicate anything has affected match results, but I'll see this through as much as I am able to.

the fact that engine might not have been rigged doesn't mean it is working fine, nor that he resembles a real simulation engine. TBH, if really the engine wasn't changed then it means in 3 years NORDEUS couldn't produce anything not only nearly similar to a decent simulation (where strenght, formations, orientation on def/atk are calculated), but even probably the WORST engine in a football simulation game ever.

To keep up with your post, it's been 3 years users complain about how retarded engine works 90% of times, expecially facing 1)abandoned or not followed teams
2)illegal formation teams
3)STs passing the ball to defenders instead of going for it
4)counters where the ball is tossed to a defender supposed to be behind, not away
5)first minute of first and second half holding 50% of the chanches of the match (clearly pre-simulated before kick off)
6)teams with a red card or an unsubbed player which playing in 10 overpower the opponent and win by margin (often a weaker team, to worsen the case)
7)matches where you are dominating and winning 4-0, then 6) happens and you draw or even lose.
8)Generally every season having a formation which gets overpowered (and here i think devs do this so people tend to change modules more - hence more T used)
9)lot more.

That said, it's been 3 years ALL these points are raised every season, are present every season, so i wonder:

WHat has been done? Doesn't seem like our voice was passed to devs, nor that any of this forum's threads were taken seriously.
How many times people lost their tokens by bugs, and they weren't returned?

Yeah, this forum represents only a small part of the community, but without any doubt, here (like in all other game's main forums) we have the "creme de la creme" regarding T buyers and generally people who pay LOT of attention to the game, hence able to uncover the problems.

Any gaming company bases their moves on the responses from the official forum related, but this is not the case.

If you don't hear out official forum's members, you might as well ignore everything else (which you do, besides).