Discussion on Injury Frequency

I am hesitant to start this thread because on some level I feel it can't lead anywhere good. But then again, some people do seem to genuinely have opinions on this and it is an issue worth discussing. All I would ask is if you want to contribute to this thread:

1. Stay on topic! This thread is for discussing injuries in the game and whether they are more or less frequent than in real life. I realise it will also drift into other areas concerning injuries, which is okay, but try to keep it at least vaguely on topic.

2. Follow Adam Hills golden rule - Don't be a Dick! If you disagree with someone, then say so and say why. Don't call people names. Don't ridicule people. Don't try to bully people into feeling bad for not agreeing with you.


So anyway, injuries. I stated on another thread that injury levels were broadly realistic in the game and that, in fact, to fully simulate the RL effect of injuries, you would probably have to increase them in some regards. I never had a chance to qualify this statement because the thread was locked. What I meant by this was that most teams in F11 suffer less from injury than real life teams because:

1. The option to use red packs as a magic cure
2. The artificial limits placed on injuries by the game
3. The option to sell a badly-injured player for his full value

Some people seemed personally affronted by this post and said I was asking Nordeus to increase injury frequency. I wasn't. The context of the post was that I believe that using 'realism' as a rationalisation for asking for less injuries is misguided. If you think there should be less injuries that is a valid opinion, but not under the guise of realism.

Actually proving (or indeed disproving) this is harder. I can tell you that right now in the Premier League, there are 80 players listed as injured, which conveniently is exactly four per team. There are a few factors to take into account when assessing this figure though:

1. Squad sizes in the Premier League are 25 players (roughly, there are a bunch of mitigating factors), compared to 20-22 in F11. So you would expect about 10-20% less injuries in an average F11 squad.
2. However, as a counterbalance to that, it is very early in the PL season. There are generally less injuries at the start of the season than the end. F11 has no summer break so it doesn't have this phenomenon (so much anyway, there is a small effect due to more people buying players early in the season)
3. Different definitions on what qualifies as an 'injury'

So from a realism standpoint, I would say that F11 teams should have an AVERAGE of 3-4 players injured at any given time. Do they? Well my experience across several teams would say no. I nearly always have less than that. Of course, this is in part due to red packs, which RL managers don't have available. A few times I have had an 'injury stack up' but this happens in real life too. For example, Arsenal and Crystal Place both currently have 9 players listed as injured. I've certainly never had that many, with or without red packs!

What is other people's experience of injuries? If you've actually kept track of it and have figures then great! If not, how many player do you usually have injured at any given time from memory?

i`v had 6 injuries in last 6 days and two were my g/k so was forced into using red packs i have also noticed they don`t spread the injuries only players in certain area`s i`e mid to leave you short if not defense too leave short which results in the use of red packs

what get`s me is if i don`t use red packs there fitness level fly`s down so when they are back i can use rest packs to get fitness level up or wait so a player out for 3 days and not use rest will infact be out for 5 days

Piemaster, do you believe that lowering injuries by, let's say, 20% would decrease the popularity of the game or would make some long-time players leave the game?

There isn't enough injuries in the game, I average 12 injuries/season if you don't include PT and most of those injuries are healed with red packs left over.

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Originally Posted by magic3

Piemaster, do you believe that lowering injuries by, let's say, 20% would decrease the popularity of the game or would make some long-time players leave the game?

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I honestly don't know (and I challenge anyone who claims they do). When somebody quits a game it is never usually for just one reason. Is someone who *loves* the game suddenly going to quit because the injury level is changed? Very unlikely. Could someone who already has a list of things they are not that plussed about quit because injuries are changed? Maybe. The issue is further complicated with something like injuries because people that hate them do so for straightforward, tangible reasons (OMG my star striker got injured so I lost the cup final!!!one!!!), whereas those that like them probably do so subconsciously, knowing that they add to the game somehow but not really being able to quantify how/why very well. If it were just a case of "less injuries = better game" why does every single (decent) football sim, including those that don't have 'red packs for you to buy', choose to simulate them?

Anyway this is somewhat off-topic for the thread. If you think there should be less injuries then fine, you're entitled to that opinion, there's no right or wrong as it's just a value judgement. The thread is supposed to primarily be about whether the injury rate is *realistic*.

It was slightly off topic but that was how everything started so I was just interested in what you thought, I know you don't know and I don't claim to know either and I am not saying it can be proven. I just think the game would be better with less injuries amongst other things/suggestions me and other forum members have suggested over time..

11 injured so far lol

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Originally Posted by Piemaster

I honestly don't know (and I challenge anyone who claims they do). When somebody quits a game it is never usually for just one reason. Is someone who *loves* the game suddenly going to quit because the injury level is changed? Very unlikely. Could someone who already has a list of things they are not that plussed about quit because injuries are changed? Maybe. The issue is further complicated with something like injuries because people that hate them do so for straightforward, tangible reasons (OMG my star striker got injured so I lost the cup final!!!one!!!), whereas those that like them probably do so subconsciously, knowing that they add to the game somehow but not really being able to quantify how/why very well. If it were just a case of "less injuries = better game" why does every single (decent) football sim, including those that don't have 'red packs for you to buy', choose to simulate them?

Anyway this is somewhat off-topic for the thread. If you think there should be less injuries then fine, you're entitled to that opinion. The thread is supposed to be about whether the injury rate is *realistic*.

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Dude, how can you judge it to be realistic, since realistic is objective in this case.

Facts are that they allegedly use the injury rate from the EPL, whether they do this or not is up for debate as I cannot recall where I saw this, but something like this sticks in ones mind considering the weight of the subject.

I started my thread because I simply was shocked at your comment that the injury rate is still not high enough to be "realistic" and since the thread that it was in got locked, I felt discussion was needed on this viewpoint of yours.

I understand that there are going to be aspects of this game that are unrealistic the way they want to run it. BUT they can get it as close to real life as possible if they are going to call this a simulation...otherwise it is just a football manager game. They advertise they want to simulate it as close to real-life as they can but lets be serious here and call bull**** on that. If it doesnt affect their income, then they will implement things into the game that will make it more realistic, otherwise, they sit on it and wait until people leave in droves, but alas, we will not know that until the site goes down.

Their whole take on injuries is flawed, not in theory, but in application: They need to make the game more fun and REDUCE training injuries and durations because people go all out in the game because winning is what is important - training is not as hardcore and therefore should not penalize the manager in terms of serious injuries. Look at breaking a leg during CARDIO! This happened to me this season. Stretching should not cause the onset of hair loss, so why does Cardio cause a broken leg?

What I am trying to say is that they need to make the injuries relevant to the action that causes such injuries, and the duration would also be more relevant. Shrek getting stitches after a practice match and out for one week, two max, which would be a two day injury, and a broken leg which is 20-24 weeks but would be rare from practice and more likely from a game.

Get it? They need to "fine-tune" the current injury system and perhaps tone it down on the training aspect of it.

At the end of the day, I would do a better job with the devs in this game than current management. I want to see a great football manager game and they can do it with T11, but so many insults come to mind because they are sitting on this and refusing to make it better for everyone. I am not a T11 hater as many would categorize me, I speak from frustration that this game is not what it should be.

Piemaster, like I said, if you want more injuries, email Nordeus and ask them if they can help you with that - expect something to be done in 6 months to a year, like usual. July actually agreeing with this does not surprise me since he farms/buys tokens and red packs are nothing to him. Cant stop everyone from being selfish can we?

July was sarcastic, i think..

I'm sort of on the fence on this.... I don't get many injuries, so I guess i am one of the few that has no real complaint about it. But so many people do! Obviously many would like this game with less. I will say it is ridiculous to get a broken ankle whilst stretching (I use stretching only to even out condition levels at the end of training.)

But, I do think it is hard to make RL comparisons when our squad size is more limited than RL, we can't pull up a Liga.2 player etc.

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Originally Posted by Cat Harrison

I will say it is ridiculous to get a broken ankle whilst stretching (I use stretching only to even out condition levels at the end of training.)

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I agree this is a little silly, but I think the problem is not with the injuries, but with how they represent the different training sessions. They should just be called 'light training', 'medium training' and 'heavy training'. They all do the same thing, so if you changed injuries to be consistent with the type of training, to play optimally you would need to log in every 10 minutes to do stretching and never do the others at all. I'm pretty sure people don't want that.

Honestly idk i havnt played the game that long. But i have a 18 man squad and at one time, i had 7 injuries. That meant no subs, just my first team. Most of those injuries where 5 days. ( This was half way threw the season when buying a player isnt worth it for me since i made my squad at start of the season to a point where i thought id be able to compete for 1-2 trophies ) Eventually all healed and it was great. Then i started getting more injuries so had to bring in replacements, who got injured in the first training they did or game they played. Which left me without certain things. I had to eventually sell some players to bring in older less talented players purely to cover. And yet i still find myself short. My DR was out for 15 days with a broken leg he suffered. Then lost all 3 of my MC's. I dont think the injuries are too often, i just think they always seem to happen where you are weakest.

Ok, I can see what you are saying, but still think they could skew it a bit better. the severity of the injury seems truly harsh sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Piemaster

What is other people's experience of injuries? If you've actually kept track of it and have figures then great!

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I did.

I don't know if I'll bother to track injury data again, because it was quite a bit of extra work, my numbers from that season generally mesh with Nordeus' past statements on the issue, and those numbers compare pretty closely to the real-world injury studies I've read.

edited: removed the sarcasm

8th injury in the last 8 days and all with normal training, just as well i`v only got league games and not in both cups as well or i`d be pulling my butt hair out ( can`t do head hair i`m bald )

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Originally Posted by Razz

I did.

I don't know if I'll bother to track injury data again, because it was quite a bit of extra work, my numbers from that season generally mesh with Nordeus' past statements on the issue, and those numbers compare pretty closely to the real-world injury studies I've read.

edited: removed the sarcasm

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Nice study!

As you say in the original post, the results aren't conclusive due to the low sample size, but it's a great start and light-years ahead of the anecdotal evidence we usually get on the issue.

Its not as much how many injuries but how long, to whom they occur and when they happen.

It is not coincidence that they tend to happen for longer durations near the end of the season. Also, they seem to be targeting the best players more often.

I do agree that they should rename the training sessions to make things more logical and believable if they want to add the touch of realism to the game, because frankly, the results that the NGE give out dont add any realism to this game for the most part.

Attachment 13202

Look at this, I no longer know what to do with my time ... I'm playing with a formation that does not help you win games, and some of my best players are slow to recover and recover when hurt again!

You have to sell some of those guys, Elton! Especially the ones keep getting hurt

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Originally Posted by Elton Muniz Silva

Attachment 13202

Look at this, I no longer know what to do with my time ... I'm playing with a formation that does not help you win games, and some of my best players are slow to recover and recover when hurt again!

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LOL! prison football! want to see that on youtube!

I don't "bother" If I get 1x injury in a game, but when I get 3x per game then it's f@@king annoying! :p

the point is, if u have one injury, there r about 4-5 to follow. So its like u have a chain of injuries once in 2 seasons, then all is fine. So once u have an injury, and have another in the second match, get prepared.

I ask you all honestly ..
In real life, players are not injured?

Of course they do!

Sometimes a player return to the game after a year out and in the next game is out again.
Sometimes the same player is injured again and again.
Sometimes in the same game few players injured.

This is what i think:
We expect the game to be as real as possible but we do not accept some occurrences that hurt us.


For those who wants to avoid injuries i ask you to read my guide about how to avoid injuries, i believe it will help most of you.

Bought a player today, fully fit, cost me 15 tokens and 3m. Injured after 2 minutes of the game, out for 5 days....

1. I feel with everyone having bad injury luck out there!

2. I play team set up with 20 players trying to cover most formations and double the most roles.

3. Don't be afraid to use asymmetrical formations if you have no other choice. I rather use asy Form then place player at the wrong spot.

btt:

I have an avarage of 1-3 injured players during the season (meaning there is always at least 1 injured) but the worst happened to my gk he got injured 3 times in a row beeing out close to 3/4 of last season. This season my MC spots get injured a lot.

At this point i can't complain on the rate of injuries and i kinda think it should stay as it is. As I see it, if we get less injuries from training, there will be more power trainers and i don't see why that should be rewarded.

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Originally Posted by hod

I ask you all honestly ..
In real life, players are not injured?

Of course they do!

Sometimes a player return to the game after a year out and in the next game is out again.
Sometimes the same player is injured again and again.
Sometimes in the same game few players injured.

This is what i think:
We expect the game to be as real as possible but we do not accept some occurrences that hurt us.


For those who wants to avoid injuries i ask you to read my guide about how to avoid injuries, i believe it will help most of you.

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Yes, we accept that injuries are part of the game. Can you show me a post on this forum where any person states that injuries should NOT happen? YES, we get that.

WHAT we dont like is the frequency and length of the injuries. The past 5 injuries I have had have not been less than 5 days. It is not usual to have 5-7 players injured at one time

Not only that, but it is the timing of the injuries and the apparent (laughable) randomness to whom they happen to.
Seems they happen later in the season when there are more important games.

the problem with injuries is that they arent random, like Cracicot said... they target almost always all the players in one particular position, the freshly bought or the best players in the team... and if you dont get injuries you get suspicious red cards....

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Originally Posted by hod

I ask you all honestly ..
In real life, players are not injured?

Of course they do!

Sometimes a player return to the game after a year out and in the next game is out again.
Sometimes the same player is injured again and again.
Sometimes in the same game few players injured.

This is what i think:
We expect the game to be as real as possible but we do not accept some occurrences that hurt us.


For those who wants to avoid injuries i ask you to read my guide about how to avoid injuries, i believe it will help most of you.

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You're missing ONE important thing&point: 1 season (in real life) last from august to may/june (10 months!), while a season at T11 last 28 days! Now, if a player gets a 5 day or 12 (sometimes 15 days) then he is practically gone for the 1/3 or 2/3 of the season.

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Originally Posted by CarlTaut

the problem with injuries is that they arent random, like Cracicot said... they target almost always all the players in one particular position, the freshly bought or the best players in the team... and if you dont get injuries you get suspicious red cards....

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This is more or less correct.

My guess is that they know that a manager will be forced to use red packs and heal the key player or the player/players he can't be without, and not the mediocre or bad ones (which anyone could and would sell and replace).

3 mins auto subbed when I was afk today ... Im impressed ...

But it means that 2/4 strikers are injured. Just got my midfield back, well tonight after the tick I will get two back from injury, had one back yesterday, day before ... Ive lost count ...

I think I have one midfielder and one striker that hasn't been injured this season. But hey, only second season ...

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Originally Posted by Ljepoje

This is more or less correct.

My guess is that they know that a manager will be forced to use red packs and heal the key player or the player/players he can't be without, and not the mediocre or bad ones (which anyone could and would sell and replace).

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The key to making money for this game is the buying of tokens. END OF!

Whatever they can do to make you decide to buy tokens, believe me, they will do.

If that means to give more injuries than normal, they will do it.
If that means that they will target your best players or positions, they will do it.
If that means they will schedule games within 15 mins of each other, they will do it.
If that means they will continue to allow unwanted friendlies, they will do it.
If that means they will give tokens to employees or friends of the company to enter auctions and make people waste tokens, they will do it.


At the end of the day, greed rules and for Nordeus, this does not change. They care only for the money they make and not the game itself, or they would make a much better game with what they already have.

the problem is that they are comfortable with the income they have from the token buyers so they dont have any incentive to improve the game the way we want. They will only improve it if their profit margin does not decrease. They are basically saying that if you dont like the game, f!@k off and play something else because it is what it is and there is nothing you can do about it.

AND THAT is why I will never pay for this game. i learned early on that this game is cheating you out of tokens as often as it can, sometimes extremely unfairly.

And for those that say:"Cracicot, why bother playing if you dont like the game?" My reply is: "Because I like the game but hate the devs/management/Nordeus. They have the potential for a good game and they are letting greed get in the way of improvements. I will continue to waste my idle time with this game, but not limit myself to only playing this game. I have better ways to waste my time than T11. Plus I have twins on the way, so I dont believe I will be able to devote much time to this game in 6-7 months."

So there. Thats my opinion. Take it or leave it.