Discussion on Injury Frequency

[Piemaster]

I am hesitant to start this thread because on some level I feel it can't lead anywhere good. But then again, some people do seem to genuinely have opinions on this and it is an issue worth discussing. All I would ask is if you want to contribute to this thread:

1. Stay on topic! This thread is for discussing injuries in the game and whether they are more or less frequent than in real life. I realise it will also drift into other areas concerning injuries, which is okay, but try to keep it at least vaguely on topic.

2. Follow Adam Hills golden rule - Don't be a Dick! If you disagree with someone, then say so and say why. Don't call people names. Don't ridicule people. Don't try to bully people into feeling bad for not agreeing with you.


So anyway, injuries. I stated on another thread that injury levels were broadly realistic in the game and that, in fact, to fully simulate the RL effect of injuries, you would probably have to increase them in some regards. I never had a chance to qualify this statement because the thread was locked. What I meant by this was that most teams in F11 suffer less from injury than real life teams because:

1. The option to use red packs as a magic cure
2. The artificial limits placed on injuries by the game
3. The option to sell a badly-injured player for his full value

Some people seemed personally affronted by this post and said I was asking Nordeus to increase injury frequency. I wasn't. The context of the post was that I believe that using 'realism' as a rationalisation for asking for less injuries is misguided. If you think there should be less injuries that is a valid opinion, but not under the guise of realism.

Actually proving (or indeed disproving) this is harder. I can tell you that right now in the Premier League, there are 80 players listed as injured, which conveniently is exactly four per team. There are a few factors to take into account when assessing this figure though:

1. Squad sizes in the Premier League are 25 players (roughly, there are a bunch of mitigating factors), compared to 20-22 in F11. So you would expect about 10-20% less injuries in an average F11 squad.
2. However, as a counterbalance to that, it is very early in the PL season. There are generally less injuries at the start of the season than the end. F11 has no summer break so it doesn't have this phenomenon (so much anyway, there is a small effect due to more people buying players early in the season)
3. Different definitions on what qualifies as an 'injury'

So from a realism standpoint, I would say that F11 teams should have an AVERAGE of 3-4 players injured at any given time. Do they? Well my experience across several teams would say no. I nearly always have less than that. Of course, this is in part due to red packs, which RL managers don't have available. A few times I have had an 'injury stack up' but this happens in real life too. For example, Arsenal and Crystal Place both currently have 9 players listed as injured. I've certainly never had that many, with or without red packs!

What is other people's experience of injuries? If you've actually kept track of it and have figures then great! If not, how many player do you usually have injured at any given time from memory?

[spornybol]

i`v had 6 injuries in last 6 days and two were my g/k so was forced into using red packs i have also noticed they don`t spread the injuries only players in certain area`s i`e mid to leave you short if not defense too leave short which results in the use of red packs

what get`s me is if i don`t use red packs there fitness level fly`s down so when they are back i can use rest packs to get fitness level up or wait so a player out for 3 days and not use rest will infact be out for 5 days

[magic3]

Piemaster, do you believe that lowering injuries by, let's say, 20% would decrease the popularity of the game or would make some long-time players leave the game?

[July Fourth]

There isn't enough injuries in the game, I average 12 injuries/season if you don't include PT and most of those injuries are healed with red packs left over.

[Piemaster]

Piemaster, do you believe that lowering injuries by, let's say, 20% would decrease the popularity of the game or would make some long-time players leave the game?

I honestly don't know (and I challenge anyone who claims they do). When somebody quits a game it is never usually for just one reason. Is someone who *loves* the game suddenly going to quit because the injury level is changed? Very unlikely. Could someone who already has a list of things they are not that plussed about quit because injuries are changed? Maybe. The issue is further complicated with something like injuries because people that hate them do so for straightforward, tangible reasons (OMG my star striker got injured so I lost the cup final!!!one!!!), whereas those that like them probably do so subconsciously, knowing that they add to the game somehow but not really being able to quantify how/why very well. If it were just a case of "less injuries = better game" why does every single (decent) football sim, including those that don't have 'red packs for you to buy', choose to simulate them?

Anyway this is somewhat off-topic for the thread. If you think there should be less injuries then fine, you're entitled to that opinion, there's no right or wrong as it's just a value judgement. The thread is supposed to primarily be about whether the injury rate is *realistic*.

[magic3]

It was slightly off topic but that was how everything started so I was just interested in what you thought, I know you don't know and I don't claim to know either and I am not saying it can be proven. I just think the game would be better with less injuries amongst other things/suggestions me and other forum members have suggested over time..

[thon]

11 injured so far lol

[cracicot]

I honestly don't know (and I challenge anyone who claims they do). When somebody quits a game it is never usually for just one reason. Is someone who *loves* the game suddenly going to quit because the injury level is changed? Very unlikely. Could someone who already has a list of things they are not that plussed about quit because injuries are changed? Maybe. The issue is further complicated with something like injuries because people that hate them do so for straightforward, tangible reasons (OMG my star striker got injured so I lost the cup final!!!one!!!), whereas those that like them probably do so subconsciously, knowing that they add to the game somehow but not really being able to quantify how/why very well. If it were just a case of "less injuries = better game" why does every single (decent) football sim, including those that don't have 'red packs for you to buy', choose to simulate them?

Anyway this is somewhat off-topic for the thread. If you think there should be less injuries then fine, you're entitled to that opinion. The thread is supposed to be about whether the injury rate is *realistic*.

Dude, how can you judge it to be realistic, since realistic is objective in this case.

Facts are that they allegedly use the injury rate from the EPL, whether they do this or not is up for debate as I cannot recall where I saw this, but something like this sticks in ones mind considering the weight of the subject.

I started my thread because I simply was shocked at your comment that the injury rate is still not high enough to be "realistic" and since the thread that it was in got locked, I felt discussion was needed on this viewpoint of yours.

I understand that there are going to be aspects of this game that are unrealistic the way they want to run it. BUT they can get it as close to real life as possible if they are going to call this a simulation...otherwise it is just a football manager game. They advertise they want to simulate it as close to real-life as they can but lets be serious here and call bull**** on that. If it doesnt affect their income, then they will implement things into the game that will make it more realistic, otherwise, they sit on it and wait until people leave in droves, but alas, we will not know that until the site goes down.

Their whole take on injuries is flawed, not in theory, but in application: They need to make the game more fun and REDUCE training injuries and durations because people go all out in the game because winning is what is important - training is not as hardcore and therefore should not penalize the manager in terms of serious injuries. Look at breaking a leg during CARDIO! This happened to me this season. Stretching should not cause the onset of hair loss, so why does Cardio cause a broken leg?

What I am trying to say is that they need to make the injuries relevant to the action that causes such injuries, and the duration would also be more relevant. Shrek getting stitches after a practice match and out for one week, two max, which would be a two day injury, and a broken leg which is 20-24 weeks but would be rare from practice and more likely from a game.

Get it? They need to "fine-tune" the current injury system and perhaps tone it down on the training aspect of it.

At the end of the day, I would do a better job with the devs in this game than current management. I want to see a great football manager game and they can do it with T11, but so many insults come to mind because they are sitting on this and refusing to make it better for everyone. I am not a T11 hater as many would categorize me, I speak from frustration that this game is not what it should be.

Piemaster, like I said, if you want more injuries, email Nordeus and ask them if they can help you with that - expect something to be done in 6 months to a year, like usual. July actually agreeing with this does not surprise me since he farms/buys tokens and red packs are nothing to him. Cant stop everyone from being selfish can we?

[magic3]

July was sarcastic, i think..

[Cat Harrison]

I'm sort of on the fence on this.... I don't get many injuries, so I guess i am one of the few that has no real complaint about it. But so many people do! Obviously many would like this game with less. I will say it is ridiculous to get a broken ankle whilst stretching (I use stretching only to even out condition levels at the end of training.)

But, I do think it is hard to make RL comparisons when our squad size is more limited than RL, we can't pull up a Liga.2 player etc.