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Thread: Crushed by an assymetric formation!

  1. #11
    Apprentice ponzu's Avatar
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    Well, I did ask earlier what orders (and arrows) would go with that formation. Nothing is original. Every formation has been tried. Is copying a symmetric formation from the table less shameful than copying a goofy looking formation? You hypothesized errlier that he caught me out with counters. What arrows do you imagine he had?

    I could try it out in a friendly, but friendlies don't mean much. I win friendlies with hands tied behind back, hopping on one foot, blindfolded.
    Awe Imoleayo Peter likes this.
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  2. #12
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    Try friendlies against higher level managers. He had a red arrow on his ML, with a left flank focus. It's blatantly obvious, would you like me to pace the touch line with you too? Likely a blue arrow on his right ST and his rightmost MC. Maybe red on AMC maybe not, doesn't matter because your didn't play a dmc or 3CBs.
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  3. #13
    Apprentice ponzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoofDaddy View Post
    What arion said, plus pass completion% that is 84% or lower usually means long passing, instead of being a speed test, i feel its more your defender's positioning stat that gets checked. High P&M players will break offside traps more often, see Jamie Vardy and Michael Owen. But if they have a way unbalanced stat line say 100 defense 105attack 110 physical, i would definitely play a zonal offside trap if my CBs were flat 105s but a man offside trap if the forward was alone and I had a defender that was 110def 100attack 110p&m. it definitely can be a double edged sword but it is very effective in certain formations/situations. Like i would never play offside trap vs 4222 hexagon. All it takes is one of your fullbacks to put them onside and you are pooched.
    Like I said in another post early on in my career as a member of the forum.

    There are posts from those who understand the game well and want to help, but don't have a good command of English.

    And then there are posts from those who have developed their own shorthand that they and a few of their peers understand.

    (Lately, there is a third category: posts from enthusiastic newbies who have almost nothing to say, but say it with great frequency and volume.)

    I will be rereading your post for the next few days, because I am sure it contains something important to me.

    Thank you for trying to pull me to your level. I am slow. You have to speak down to me since you are taking the time to talk to me (for which I am grateful).

    Like "plus pass completion% that is 84% or lower usually means long passing, instead of being a speed test, i feel its more your defender's positioning stat that gets checked." Are you saying if his pass completion is 84% or lower it means he is using long passing? And....? I should not turn on offside trap?
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  4. #14
    Famous HoofDaddy's Avatar
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    Sorry I forget that my english is colloquial and doesn't always translate well to players that don't speak english as a first language. I'll try to be clearer.

    Yes, offside trap is a good idea vs long passing. A pass completion % of 84 or less means long passing unless one side is dominating the other. Turn on offside trap when you know your opponent is using long passing. Zonal if your defenders can't match his physical stats, man if you have a Q advantage or equal. I really hope you can understand why you lost this last game and learn from it.
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  5. #15
    Apprentice ponzu's Avatar
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    Well, I don't have a problem with your English, colloquial or otherwise. The things you are saying about T11 (and soccer in general) may be self evident to you, but I need to internalize them. Like when you started throwing numbers at me.

    As far as the 0:4 loss to the guy with a skewed formation, so far, the thing that made the most sense to me is that zonal marking could not handle it. And that my formation was a mismatch.
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  6. #16
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    Ass man sometimes tells me to turn on counters and/or offside trap. As well as to press higher or tackle harder. Is there anything to his advice? It feels random.

    I never press high or tackle hard in response to his advice simply because I never do.

    I usually turn on counters if he tells me to because it does not feel very risky.

    I turn offside trap on if the opponents does not have AMs, but then it would probably be already on in that case.

    I have no idea if his advice has ever helped me or hurt me because I don't follow it all the time, only when it coincides with my own gut feel.

    One big takeaway from your and Arion's comments is that OT or no OT should not be determined by the mere presence of opponent's AMs, but rather by the total number of his attackers and relative strength (speed? or P&M?) of my D and his A. And on whether he is passing long. I hope I got this much right.
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  7. #17
    Famous HoofDaddy's Avatar
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    yes, you got it, also if you are running 3CBs with a down arrow on the middle aka having a sweeper, trap is definitely not a good idea.
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  8. #18
    Apprentice ponzu's Avatar
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    My DMC is my sweeper and I rarely use three DCs. If I play with 3 D, I usually have them wide. I don't consider 3W + DMC inappropriate even against AMC + 2ST. I am worried about being outflanked by DL/DR with forward arrows.

    Today I played against a formation so ridiculous I had a hard time countering it.

    4-2W(DMR/DML)-1-1-2

    I wanted to see how it worked out for him in the past, but in his first match he had an asymmetrical formation and got beaten 2:3, so that was no help.

    I countered with 3W-1-3N-1-2, short, down middle, attacking, thinking I could just ram it through. Up arrows on DL, DR, one ST, AMC, down arrow on the other ST. I had a substantial Q advantage as well.

    Well, nothing worked for 65 minutes. Possession was 62/38 me and I got complimented by the ass man on passing working out. But most live episodes that were shown was him attacking and my D just barely coping.

    I noticed that my AMC was struggling. He is a low 4*, a holdover of a misguided attempt two season ago to acquire fast trainers, and should really be more of a mascot at this point. But he is the only AMC on the team, so he gets starts. Long story short, I swapped him for a star AMR and swapped the middle MC for an AML, ending up with 3W-1-2-2W-2, a hexagon variant I guess, changing focus passing to mixed. At 75' and 0:0 I cranked it up to hard attacking and was finally able to generate a goal. My DL (with an up arrow) scored from an MC. I dialed down to normal and scored another: ST from AMR.

    In the end I feel I got lucky and basically pulled it out on Q differential, because my initial formation and orders were a miss and wasn't it said that you can't really affect the outcome by making changes during? It looked like I turned the match around, but it was too close for comfort.
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  9. #19
    Super Moderator PricopGeorgeCătălin's Avatar
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    I can tell you from own experience that it was luck. I play for years and half time I played with normal formations and half with asymmetric formations and I didn't noticed any difference.

    As long the formation is legit I don't think they count enough to make a difference on the field.
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  10. #20
    Apprentice ponzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PricopGeorgeCătălin View Post
    As long the formation is legit I don't think they count enough to make a difference on the field.
    Then what does? Other than Q, and that (just like money) does not guarantee a win or a loss.

    I know the answer is "many factors", but if formation is not the main one, what is?
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