Crushed by an assymetric formation!

[ponzu]

In my first league match I was up against a team with slightly lower Q and the following weird formation

DR------DC-DC------
--------------------------
----MC-MC-MC-ML
---------AMC----------
-----ST-------ST------

I did not know what to make of it, but thought 4-3N-2W-1 (do we have a name for it yet?) could handle it.

Fat chance! Lost 0:4 on his turf (5% possession bonus), at 50/50 possession, 84(him)/87(me) pass completion and 20/18 tackles. With one YC (no goal scored on FK) and no injuries. In other words, simply got outplayed. 3 goals out of 4 were by his left ST (the one backed up by the ML). My ass man gushed in the report: "The opponent's transition from defence to attack were genius."

Questions.

1. Why do off-center formations work and do they work all the time?

2. I am tempted to copy his success. What orders do you think went with this formation?

3. Should I have countered with a different formation or did I just get unlucky? I know many believe in countering an AMC with a DMC. I could have gone with a 4-5-1V, but it has been getting a bad name lately. Or should I counter asymmetry with asymmetry?

P.S. My squad was fully rested with good to superb morale, but I did not give any win bonus; it seems silly in the early rounds of the league play. Suppose my opponent gave his squad top bonus... I still don't see it explaining a 4:0 drubbing.

[HoofDaddy]

he was running counter attacks and you were playing 43n2w1 likely attacking with high pressure. If you weren't running offside trap you needed to switch to normal/low or put trap on. Asymmetrical formations ruin zonal marking.
Also, no dmc vs a amc, shame on you Ponzu.

[ponzu]

I played attacking, granted, but no high pressure. I did not have offside trap based on the presence of an AMC. Again, read that somewhere, just like I read to use DMC against AMC. Some things I take close to heart, other not so quickly. And yes, of course I was playing zonal.

I always play Zonal, Low pressure. I never found that varying these does me any good other than makes my guys runs out of steam.

To recap what you said:

- If I am to copy his formation, I should turn counters on and hope my opponent marks zonal as most managers do.

- When I play him again, I add DMC, switch to man-to-man, normal, low press. 4-5-1V sounds reasonable? Perhaps 4-1-4-1?

[HoofDaddy]

1. don't copy his formation, he beat you because he exploited the weaknesses of attacking/low press/zonal marking, doesn't matter what formation you had on.

2. i'd play a 3142 or a 313w12 vs him maybe putting a CF and a AMR instead of 2 strikers. with normal/defensive, mixed/long passing.

3. watch the passes completed %, that will give you an idea on whether or not to turn on offside trap.

[ponzu]

I did not mean copy him when playing him next. Not many teams beat me 4:0. I figured I might want to try his trick to surprise a high level team I'll be up against one of these days. Attacking/low press/zonal seems a very likely combination. Or perhaps it feels that way because that's what I play.

[ponzu]

Re your #3: how? How will it tell me whether to turn on offside trap? I assume you mean his %?

Do you not subscribe to the notion that offside trap is dangerous/bad idea when the opponent has AMs?

[Arion]

I played attacking, granted, but no high pressure. I did not have offside trap based on the presence of an AMC. Again, read that somewhere, just like I read to use DMC against AMC. Some things I take close to heart, other not so quickly. And yes, of course I was playing zonal.

I always play Zonal, Low pressure. I never found that varying these does me any good other than makes my guys runs out of steam.

To recap what you said:

- If I am to copy his formation, I should turn counters on and hope my opponent marks zonal as most managers do.

- When I play him again, I add DMC, switch to man-to-man, normal, low press. 4-5-1V sounds reasonable? Perhaps 4-1-4-1?

No, not 4-5-1V since you'll lose the advantage in the midfield. Rather, you could've tried 4-1-3-2, I feel in that case, it could've been a draw, since it nullifies the midfield barring their ML.
And for your other post, it's quite ironic that I lost 2-0 to 4-3-3 and won 3-0 to 4-3-1-2, OT on in both cases. It depends on the opponent's quality. Offside trap itself is quite dangerous, and don't use it if the opponent's AMs and STs are faster, and never if they have more than 3 STs and AMs combined.
I'm tanking in league, but going for the CL-Cup double; it's harder than the treble, you know. It's like swimming upstream.

[HoofDaddy]

What arion said, plus pass completion% that is 84% or lower usually means long passing, instead of being a speed test, i feel its more your defender's positioning stat that gets checked. High P&M players will break offside traps more often, see Jamie Vardy and Michael Owen. But if they have a way unbalanced stat line say 100 defense 105attack 110 physical, i would definitely play a zonal offside trap if my CBs were flat 105s but a man offside trap if the forward was alone and I had a defender that was 110def 100attack 110p&m. it definitely can be a double edged sword but it is very effective in certain formations/situations. Like i would never play offside trap vs 4222 hexagon. All it takes is one of your fullbacks to put them onside and you are pooched.

[ponzu]

The guy with the skewed formation won another 3:0 beating another high Q team. He is in first place with 2-0 record and +7 diff. Why again would I not want to follow his example?

[HoofDaddy]

Because it shows what kind of manager you are if you hop on somebody else's bandwagon? you don't know arrows, orders etc., at best you'll be a poor imitation.