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Thread: A subject to think about

  1. #1
    Dreamer ElPocho's Avatar
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    A subject to think about

    Does it ever happen to you that you play against the same team in the same day or 2 days where you face it in the league and cup or cl ,

    but the thing here even if you both play with same formation during the 3-4 matches the results is never the same it means you can win against him in the league and lose against him in the cup in the same day, while playing with the same formation and nothing has changed .


    is this top eleven trying to be realistic ? because before i thought the game has a big data base of same scenarios where teams with specifics formation and quality loses or win against others .

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    Champion Tactician's Avatar
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    There is probably too much randomness involved in deciding the outcomes of matches - so much that is it not appropriate, and hence it is likely that there will be some things going against football logic.

    Say, if two equal quality teams are made to play against each other for 10 times and all the things that can be controlled by both managers are kept constant (formation, orders, arrows, condition, morale, bonuses and so on), and one team used superior tactics, it is expected that this team would win most of the matches. A draw or two may occur and rarely maybe one loss. But, in this game it is not like this. There are more 'anomalies' than expected - more than what is expected in real life. Surprises do occur in real life, but not up to the extent that they do in this game. Many outcomes are not realistic. The same applies to the number of injuries and so on. So, maybe they failed in what they tried to do in terms of making the outcomes more realistic (if ever that were their intentions).
    Last edited by Tactician; 05-11-2016 at 04:07 PM.
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    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    while playing with the same formation and nothing has changed .
    orders are also important as the formation but how you could now oppo orders ?

    Also my opinion is that formation and orders are just another small factor that affects the result.
    Some times important, sometimes not.

    is this top eleven trying to be realistic ?
    it's a game based on football but not a simulation.
    You can't be the manager of REAL and just click a button the set the mod in defense
    or being Diego Simeone and with a click to set attack mentality - lol
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    Dreamer ElPocho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactician View Post
    There is probably too much randomness involved in deciding the outcomes of matches - so much that is it not appropriate, and hence it is likely that there will be some things going against football logic.

    Say, if two teams are made to play against each other for 10 times and all the things that can be controlled by both managers are kept constant (formation, orders, arrows, condition, morale, bonuses and so on). If both teams are of the same quality and one team used superior tactics, it is expected that this team would win most of the matches. A draw or two may occur and rarely maybe one loss. But, in this game it is not like this. There are more 'anomalies' than expected - more than what is expected in real life. Many outcomes are not realistic. So, maybe they failed in what they tried to do in terms of making the outcomes more realistic (if ever that were their intention).
    why i asked this question ? i had a team in my league that i won against 3-1 and lost against 5-2 in the cup so i'm trying to find a logic

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    Dreamer ElPocho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos View Post
    orders are also important as the formation but how you could now oppo orders ?

    Also my opinion is that formation and orders are just another small factor that affects the result.
    Some times important, sometimes not.


    it's a game based on football but not a simulation.
    You can't be the manager of REAL and just click a button the set the mod in defense
    or being Diego Simeone and with a click to set attack mentality - lol
    of course i wouldn't know if he changed arrows or something,but i'm sure most of the players don't just changed arrow to change their tactic they mostly change the whole formation then the arrows,i do that

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    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    That's not a machine proggrammed to put exactly same results if X vs Y formation =/ Q(min/max): Q(min/max)

    The game itself want u to manage, manage before matches and during these, both jobs have importance, if u see my matches usually when I do a substitution the player that enter to the field comes from another that don't appear,,, and tend to score (for example... as a labour to do during matches)... then change of orders can affect the possession bar... and at the end we know that every formation can win the league with the correct players...
    So, why the result/scenario is not teh same vs a same team we face 4 times in a season? ...because this "factor" is not a scenario,, the factor related to the Q. actual morale/condition etc.. is not "the scenario" ...
    the scenario are the instructions that use this information (Q./condition/morale/bonus victory) to create a different scenario/situation for every match, and one can have a 9* player but if what determines the scenario say that this player will not appear, will not appear. If theres a aggressive player and the game want one manage to avoid a 2nd yellow, then, this will be the scenario and will require different decisions even if both teams are/have with the same base of Q etc of visual information...


    ?
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    Champion Tactician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElPocho View Post
    why i asked this question ? i had a team in my league that i won against 3-1 and lost against 5-2 in the cup so i'm trying to find a logic
    Like I have said, it is probably due to the excessive amount of randomness involved in deciding the outcomes of matches.

    But, there may be something else involved too. I have noticed that for the Cup, many times a team is given favor in one leg and the other team is given favor for the other leg (irrespective whether the team is playing away or home). So, if this is observed way too much, there is surely something else involved other than randomness unless if the favor given is a 50-50 decision.
    Last edited by Tactician; 05-11-2016 at 04:06 PM.
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  8. #8
    Dreamer ElPocho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    That's not a machine proggrammed to put exactly same results if X vs Y formation =/ Q(min/max): Q(min/max)

    The game itself want u to manage, manage before matches and during these, both jobs have importance, if u see my matches usually when I do a substitution the player that enter to the field comes from another that don't appear,,, and tend to score (for example... as a labour to do during matches)... then change of orders can affect the possession bar... and at the end we know that every formation can win the league with the correct players...
    So, why the result/scenario is not teh same vs a same team we face 4 times in a season? ...because this "factor" is not a scenario,, the factor related to the Q. actual morale/condition etc.. is not "the scenario" ...
    the scenario are the instructions that use this information (Q./condition/morale/bonus victory) to create a different scenario/situation for every match, and one can have a 9* player but if what determines the scenario say that this player will not appear, will not appear. If theres a aggressive player and the game want one manage to avoid a 2nd yellow, then, this will be the scenario and will require different decisions even if both teams are/have with the same base of Q etc of visual information...


    ?
    i understand that playing against the same team during the season can vary for many things like players levels change and many other factor , but here i'm speaking about playing against same team 2 times in the same day same formation same players,even same stadium almost same everything,maybe it doesn't matter if in the same day or month the result always varies

  9. #9
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElPocho View Post
    i understand that playing against the same team during the season can vary for many things like players levels change and many other factor , but here i'm speaking about playing against same team 2 times in the same day same formation same players,even same stadium almost same everything,maybe it doesn't matter if in the same day or month the result always varies
    Why shold be the same result if one play same day and different if 2 weeks passed?.... the thing is, that the game say:
    -ok, new match:
    lets choose a scenario, things to use to determine the scenario;
    Q, morale, condition, internal % of contribution of every player(if tend to appear more or less) agressiveness of every one, nº of corners/freekicks/penalties (if corect player shoot, oes well, if not, bad), determinant players that will appear and these who will not contribute (so to be substituted)... bonus... there are many, many things and info and variables that can do of one match something completly different to the others... and many things we dont know xD


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  10. #10
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    why i asked this question ? i had a team in my league that i won against 3-1 and lost against 5-2 in the cup so i'm trying to find a logic
    when I 'm talking about orders I mean the whole pack.
    In those games for example, oppo maybe had normal ment. in the first game and in the second game switched to defense/counter.
    It's very difficult to recognize oppo teams orders in the game.

    There are many factors , some of them maybe couldn't imagine.
    For example here
    http://forum.topeleven.com/top-eleve...eleven-12.html
    was thinking the possibility that some players performing better in specific competitions.
    Last edited by nikolgiorgos; 05-11-2016 at 05:14 PM.
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