A new counter formation thread, updated to April 2013 (Season 38)

[Morgan O'Bree]

We should realize by now that as game changes and improves the old counter formation list is slowly becoming obsolete. We have enough threads full of whining due to "i used correct formation and tactic, why i lost", so it might be the right time to start from scratch. Despite having a rather young knowledge of T11 i am one of the used to manager games as many others, so i might as well try build a constructive post.

What is a counter formation?

A counter is, or better say should be, a formation that opposed to the opponent's results effective and brings a good "referral data", being it possession, more shoots, favour's bar on your side, and all.

How a counter formation should be set up?

We are used to a set of counters and despite some of them working, most of them now don't bring the hoped results. I do believe game engine evolved since the time and that now responds effectively to what in real soccer happens. Standing on this, i'd assume that:

1)You should have the opponent's attacking positions covered up by your Defender's position, as to render void any gap. - which is what was used up untill now.

2)You should have YOUR attacking positions in the spaces between the opponent's lines, hence you should practically have your attackers in positions being the opposite of the defense's ones. This is a rather new concept as for counters, but i'm pretty sure many of us already use it.

Going back to the old counter post, we can see that this isn't the case in many examples:

-3N-1-4-1-1 is said to be countered by 4-1-2-1-2 ND.

4 Defenders are meant to be 2 DCs for the ST, while the DL/DR should if motivated cover for the MR/ML from midfield. The DMC marks the AMC and till here we're fine. The 2 MCs par with the 2 opponent's MCs and so does the AMC with the DMC. But why using a central mentality offense against 3N DCS?
a 4-5-1 V would of work way better, since the extra AML/AMR would have spaces (no dl/dr) leaving the defensive part covering all the opponent's attackers anyways.

As matter of facts, 4-5-1 V is said to be the counter of 3W-1-4-2. Same issue here, with wingers being stopped by DL/DR instead of pummelling the weaker center.

For my cup match i was going to use 4-5-1 V but then this came in my mind and i opted for ND, resulting effectively in owning the game practically. Switching to 4-5-1 V made me play worse, as matter of facts i alone countered myself by rendering void my attacking players crushing them into his defense.

So we can say, or assume, that counter formations should refer to parry ONLY the opponent's attacking side, while counter-countering (yeah, sounds weird) the opponent's Defensive side.

As start:

3N-1-4-2________________________4-5-1 V, 4-2-2-2

3W-1-4-2_______________________4-1-2-1-2, 3-1-3W-2AMC-1

Post your experiences

[El Pistolero]

I beat a 5-2N-2W-1 with 4-4-2 earlier. In fairness, I was a lot better in quality but this opponent was grinding results out despite the lack of quality. I won 4-0.

[Shanghai Shenhua]

show me the formation against 3W-1-3W-3
tried 442,4411,451v,4-1-4-1,4-1-3-2,442 dimond,442 narrow D,4-2-3-1,4-1-3w-1-1,4-3w-1-2
with at least 5 average quality better than others,not working

[dv8r]

I believe a lot of counter formations are a hoax, you need to factor in the game engine as well. If you have a game engine who is having a bad day, even a 7* team will struggle against a 2* team, no matter what formation is used

[newc]

I believe a lot of counter formations are a hoax, you need to factor in the game engine as well. If you have a game engine who is having a bad day, even a 7* team will struggle against a 2* team, no matter what formation is used

I agree with this,actually trophymanager will be more realistic

[Morgan O'Bree]

show me the formation against 3W-1-3W-3
tried 442,4411,451v,4-1-4-1,4-1-3-2,442 dimond,442 narrow D,4-2-3-1,4-1-3w-1-1,4-3w-1-2
with at least 5 average quality better than others,not working

i would give a shot to 5-2N-AMC-2 with reds on DR/DL or 3N-3W-3N-1 with blue on DMC and reds on DML/DMR both with through middle orders, the second one using long passing and counter.

[El Pistolero]

Told you, Shanghai. Through the middle formation

[July Fourth]

It's Season 39.

[Shanghai Shenhua]

Told you, Shanghai. Through the middle formation

Quote: tried 442,"4411",451v,4-1-4-1,"4-1-3-2",442 dimond,"442 narrow D",4-2-3-1,4-1-3w-1-1,4-3w-1-2
marked as through the middle

[Ljepoje]

I believe a lot of counter formations are a hoax, you need to factor in the game engine as well. If you have a game engine who is having a bad day, even a 7* team will struggle against a 2* team, no matter what formation is used

I agree. My only advice is -use your best lineup and cross your fingers it does the trick-. Another one is to "exploit" you opponent as much as possible, what is his -"strengths, weaknesses" and possible "challenges"- ?

Even sometimes when it comes to order/tactics. Like for an example: When I play 4-1-2-1-2 I set my orders to "short passing", but despite that I see the commentary state "and a longball to ..." etc.