For me the opposite if I late enter my game, mostly I start lasing even IM ahead at the time I enterQuote:
Originally Posted by Massimiliano
For me the opposite if I late enter my game, mostly I start lasing even IM ahead at the time I enterQuote:
Originally Posted by Massimiliano
it was me who said about the 12 point leadQuote:
Originally Posted by gogs67
you say bonus at max but you cannot activate them when not present,and if you mean the new team bonus your guess is as good as mine as to how it effects your teamQuote:
Originally Posted by NekoIzMase
I haven't really noticed a difference in this regard. I will say my friend just trolled a team in the quarter finals of the Champions League.Quote:
Originally Posted by maloukees
Friend 107% vs Opponent 93%
Friend was there but opponent wasn't. Home game with 15% possession bonus.
Tactics: 4-2-2-2 vs 4-1-2-2-1
Possession: 66 vs 34
Shots: 23 vs 14
Shots on Target: 11 vs 5
Tackles: 24 vs 23
His strategy: defensive, down both flanks, mixed passing, counter, low pressing and hard tackling.
Score: 7 - 0!
Meanwhile, I barely won my game against a team weaker team yesterday (115% vs 83%): 1 - 0.
The bonus is 10% even if you are not present.Quote:
Originally Posted by iansyorkcityfc
If you are watching, you can increase one of them to 15%.
This doesn't mean we know how effective this actually is. Given the fact that a 20%+ abandoned weaker team can still win against a manger who is present and has all bonuses set up , it is likely that this has very little effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ποσιδονας
I wrote that because he believes that bonus isnt active if you re not watching.
How much it matters, is another story.
So we are almost at the end of the season. I have lost 1 game and drawn 4. I believe I am due for another troll. My team quality is 120% and the strongest opponent I will be facing is 100%. For some reason, I expect to lose one of my next 4 games, not because I think the opponents are better (indeed, most aren't even attending) but because Top Eleven has decided to make me lose a game. From my experience, top eleven trolls me 2-3 times every season.
Just got trolled on two champions league games against a team 22% weaker. I was absolutely disgusted. The opponent didn't bother showing up, I had all bonuses on max and it felt like nothing I did mattered. I set my team to defensive in the first 10' and got scored on counter. It was absolutely rubbish. The worst thing is that the defeat was predictable. I hadn't lost a single game all season until these two games.
My question is, given that quality doesn't matter and the game sometimes simply decides that you will lose, why bother?
i keep saying the same thing in here for some months now, but they don't care... the game is programmed to troll you, no matter how big the quality difference is, so why should i bother looking to change the time for the match, or play with reserves, or watch from another account... these kind of tricks might be the only thing to do in the future to win an important match. and excuse me, if you stay and continue playing this game only to find ways to win a match, you're broken more than the game itself...Quote:
Originally Posted by Berlitz
Indeed. Unfortunately, I agree with Funker that the game is programmed to troll you. The only true way to get around the troll is to buy the players the game provides and ensure that your quality is 50% stronger, not because you will not get trolled, but because your chances of a troll are lower. I am not sure those other tricks work. People who buy players at the beginning of the season and don't attend games and rarely train players have a little less of a chance of winning but it isn't significant (i.e., these players usually win the League and progress to the quarter or semi finals. Sometimes, they troll others and get to the final. I do think that the only way to enjoy the game is to not care or spend too much time on it because it is a waste of time. I used to play with a group of friends but now, we don't really play anymore. 2 friends don't bother watching the ads, preferring instead to just build a new team each season and check on it every week. My best friend and I, we watch a couple of videos in the morning and then check in before games, whereas before, we religious changed tactics, improved players gathered green packs, etc.... The game pretty much is killing itself. I suspect that most of their traffic on the game is players with multiple accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by funker
If the game is 'programmed to troll you' then explain how my record was achieved if the engine won't allow me to win??
I don't spend money but I watch as many vids for greens as I can so i can train up the core of a good squad at the start of every season.
I talked on another thread about 'trolling' and how it doesn't really exist, it's just probabilities and chance of the game mechanics coming to the fore, and our reaction to that is how we process 'bad' results' differently to 'good' results (our brain works like that in real life .not just this game :D),
I'm genuinely interested though, if you believe that the game engine has a pre destined angle to it, why it lets me, a non paying player, win so many times?
Attachment 124443
So your argument is that because you win 90% of the time, trolling doesn't exist?
People are complaining that, during certain games, the engine makes you lose, regardless of whether you are the better team. People have repeatedly reported that the game didn't reflect the score, their players suddenly don't know how to play, the opponent 3 star GK turns into superman, opponents don't even attend games and assistant managers just blatantly lie (the opponents were favorites despite the losing team being listed as favorite prior to the game). In fact, some assistant manager comments clearly state "our players just went missing".
In the league, these issues can sometimes be rectified because all managers experience the odd troll, which means that it balances out over time. Indeed, this seems to be your case, given that you won so many leagues (48) yet you won less than 33% Champions League trophies. Where people really get annoyed is during knockout phases, where the manager suddenly loses all impact and is forced to see their team turn into amateurs and flail around aimlessly.
Although I clearly have less in game experience than you, my current stats could be considered higher. I've won the following 8/8 Leagues, 3/7 (maybe 4/7) champions leagues and 6/8 cups (my first cup, I wasn't managing the team when the team was knocked out). 314 wins, 34 draws and 21 losses. Longest unbeaten streak: 71, longest winning streak: 37. So yes, the game doesn't prevent you from winning all the time, but that doesn't mean it doesn't blatantly force you to lose at inopportune times. I will tell you that out of those 34 draws and 21 losses, 44 of those were to lower quality teams and 38 of them were weaker by 15%+. I am disappointed when I lose to a team 10% weaker but I accept it as just unfortunate. When I lose to a team 30% weaker, I call the engine broken.
Agreed with Lucian. My record is 294 wins, 15 draws and 15 losses. My longest unbeaten streak is 82. So by your account, that means I didn't just get trolled in the Champions League? That is nonsense reasoning. This isn't about perception of results, it is about losing games you shouldn't have lost and feeling powerless to do anything about it despite putting all the odds in your favor. I've played against the same player before in the group stages of the champions league, beat them 4-0 then 6-2 only to lose in the final, even though the quality difference between our squads had grown larger (they scored 1 goal at the 89th minute and then went on to win the penalty, with my best player missing a penalty).
The game is based on conditional probability.
I'm not going to go into scoring, 1-0, 2-0 etc but that's just an extension of this.
Two equal sides with everything equal will each have the same chance of winning. Now that doesn't mean each side takes it in turns to win, you can have an unusual run of 10 wins in a row say, but the odds are still exactly the same at the start of each game, no matter what the previous scores were
This game takes that and adds in hundreds and hundreds of new variables, each one of which has an influence on the % probability of the outcome.
But that NEVER means the score is fixed, all it does is make the stronger team more likely to win.
What people call 'troll' results are just either end of a normal 'n' shaped dice roll graph, the more you play then the more you'll see these occurring, because probability says they will, but you'll also see the stronger team consistently coming out ahead more often.
You seem to want to win every game where you are stronger (which by definition, means you lose when you are weaker) as a rule.
Think of it, that's not a very inviting game really
Bottom line is that 'troll's are infuriating annoying and just part and parcel of the algorithms that make up the game engine due to randomness,. they happen 'in-game', they are not pre set as some seem to think on here after a bad result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gogs67
If you say that you are basically following a normal "n" shaped dice roll graph and you have a higher probability of encountering anomalies (i.e. trolls), then it means that, mathematically, you are bound to encounter them at some give time "t". Even if the time "t" can't necessarily be predicted, the inevitability of the this time "t" means, by definition, you will at some point encounter a match where the engine disproportionately goes in favor of the opponent, thereby creating an anomaly. If this inevitable anomaly, which translates into a defeat, isn't a pre-set defeat, I don't know what is.
If you are encountering opponents with the same relative, this inevitability comes across as nothing more than bad luck on a game (within 15% quality). When these anomalies occur against much weaker opponents (beyond 20%), this is when you get the troll and people complain. No one said these troll results can be predicted, only that their likelihood increases the more you go without getting one (which is something you agree with in your argument).
Your statement "You seem to want to win every game where you are stronger (which by definition, means you lose when you are weaker" completely misconstrues the point people who have been trolled are making. The complaint is when you are significantly stronger, you get such aberrations that don't reflect the game or the quality of your team. In these games, managers have reported feeling like their actions do not impact the game. Teams that are defending being countered and players wandering off into no man's land. To put this in real life context, Real Madrid might lose to an under 18 team (a team easily 30-40% weaker) once in a blue moon, and most certainly never in a two leg round of the champions league. Yet, we regularly see strong teams losing to such opponents just because the engine said "poor dice roll, quality doesn't matter".
Now, although aberrations are inherently an issue that should be addressed, the other pressing issue is the propensity of these aberrations. Managers are reporting, on average, 3-4 of these per season.
This brings us to the crux of the argument: is the engine balanced if it can regularly produce such aberrations on a regular basis. Given that so many managers are complaining about this, I would tend to believe that Managers don't want a game that 2-3 times a season decides that their hard work in constructing a team is for naught. When this defeat happens in a league game, most people are ok with this. When it happens during a knock out match and they are eliminated, they get understandably annoyed.
Does that mean that managers expect to win every time they are stronger? No.
Does it mean that managers expect to beat a team more than a quarter as weaker than them? Yes.
Does it mean that managers expect to win against such a team over two games? Definitively.
Does it mean that managers expect that they won't be eliminated from competitions 2 out of every 3 seasons by substantially weaker teams? Absolutely.
Managers aren’t investing time into the game to increase their odds of winning based on a pre-determined algorithm that goes haywire 2-3 times a season. They invest because they believe that their decisions over the course of several seasons and during the game will have an impact. When they are denied this, they naturally feel cheated. When players begin thinking more about the engine producing an anomaly than focusing on tactics and team development, you have a broken game.
Agreed with Lucian. Just got trolled again after the new update. My team: 99%. The opponent: 71% . End Result: 2:2. This is ridiculous. If 30% weaker teams can regularly cause upsets, what is the point?
Same troll issue: Opponent GK is a god, mine caught 2/4 shots. I should also note that the opponent scored 2 goals in 10 min.
Also, going back, I noticed that 2/4 of my posts on this thread were censored. I guess we are getting too close to the truth.
At least you were not defeated. It could be worse, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berlitz
Indeed, but this is seriously getting ridiculous. I have now played 3 teams that were between 71 and 74% whereas I am at 101% and I have a draw for all three games. I am literally sinking in the league. What on earth his with the engine this season!?!?! Quality means absolutely nothing it seems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandef
Actually, I was going to say that since their update, the engine has been catastrophic. I am myself struggling against teams who are 56% whereas I am 109% I don't think stars or ratings mean anything anymore. Here I thought the situation couldn't get much worse... guess again.
I’ve played for a couple of years and I have yet to lose or tie any teams where I had that stark of a difference of percentage. I have no idea why it happens to all of you but I pay attention every day and I have always gotten back what I put in. I’m not saying any of you don’t, it’s just that I do.
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Berlitz
no, it's just an auto-filter that doesn't approve some posts usually from the new forum members.
I think it's ok now.
For my previous posts, they never got posted.
Anyways, just got trolled again, this time against a team only 20% weaker!! I usually play defensive 4-5-1V, all bonuses maxed out, counter attack and research my opponent's formation.
End result: I missed 1 penalty and got scored 3 times on counter attack. What is the point of setting your team to defensive only to be countered? Isn't the whole point of counter attack and defensive mentality to catch the opponent on counters if they have an attacking mentality, not get caught yourself on regular counters. Assistant stated: "disappointed to only tie as we were the stronger side on paper". Every time I am the stronger side on paper by a sizable margin, yet quality, tactics, training, nothing seems to matter. Why bother with a match engine? Might as well just roll a die when it is time to play and give me the result.
I would try attacking or normal mentally with weaker team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berlitz
That shouldn't affect getting countered. Typically, if you play defensive, the opponent should be scoring, if any, on sporadic shots from the AMC. If you are playing defensive and you get countered, that is just the game engine cheating you out of a win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandef
Also, I use 4-5-1 V style too, normal formation, and these kind of trolls happen to me as well. You dominate the game and then, suddenly, you see that wild speed up in movement and the opponent passes the ball around your team like their ghosts.
I am going to take a wild guess and presume (i) the opponent's shot efficiency was high (60+%) (ii) your goalkeeper performed very poorly (below 6) and (iii) one defender was poorly rated but the others performed well.
It is unfortunate Top Eleven has been trying to make the game more arbitrary.
I would be curious to know why you are exempt from this. From the win rates of others, including myself, I am sure you can agree that we know what we are doing. I will say that I have never won against an opponent 15% stronger than me in association games but I have lost to teams 25% weaker than mine otherwise. However, I will also say that I have crushed opponents who were within 10% of my quality with no particular reason for such a harsh defeat. It seemed like everything I tried just worked (in the Champions League and Cup, this would occur on both games).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mook6363
Yes, I agree that an attacking mentally should get more counters but I observed the opposition. When I used attacking, the weak opponents had far less counter or attack animations. I also used 4-5-1V or 4-1-2-2-2 with AMRL at the same level with ST.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucian1986
I also saw 4* god like opponent player easily dribbles through my 7* defenders and keeper.
Completely disgusted by today's games.
I played two games today and in both games I got "We were much stronger on paper; so to lose is very disappointing". I note that I have not lost all season but today's games (1st against a 103% and the second, against a 110%, whereas I am 122%). I dominated both games, had twice as many shots on goal as my opponents yet, strangely, they scored 3 goals and 2 goals respectively with a 67% accuracy rate. My GK turned was incapable of catching anything and my defense seemed unable to stop anything. I will note that, over the course of this season, I have conceded 15 goals, which means I conceded 33% of the goals this season today.
Talk about absolute Top Eleven trolling at its finest! I am really tired of Top Eleven sucking the fun out of the game like this.
I made my best in this game to improve my players, be on top of moral, bonifications every match, but start to think this game does not made comprobations
I made my best in this game to improve my players, be on top of moral, condition and bonus every match, but start to think it makes no difference in this game. I made comprobations and I find its true, you win, draw or loose when the game wants
so your issue is same with this thread .
* I merged them
You're right. I did an experiment with my second team. I never watch a single game of this team, never heal the injuries, moral. It is now in the CL final and 2nd in league. Maybe these leagues are with all bot or abandonned teams:Quote:
Originally Posted by miloren
Attachment 125887
I made similar considerations days ago but was censured. Nothing u can do -without money- works in this game
Such as?Quote:
Originally Posted by miloren
Was this one. As Grandef says, spending time programming a good training, healing or moraling ur players, watching videos... makes no difference in this gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Grandef
I didnt see this one sry on acuse of censureQuote:
Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos
My prove is not about to loose but to win like Grandef. For example, I played the 2nd match of CL semifinals with all players low on moral and down of 30% of health and won 3-1. 1st match was 3-0 with a team i know very dedicated on the game, 1st on my league, 129%, I got 119%. It looks like an alms, and for me is the reason of all the strange things I saw this time playing the game. Stop wasting time
Unfortunately, I think the sad part about all of this is that there is so much randomness that it removes any semblance of skill in the game. Today, I thought I had endure a disgraceful game in the champions league, where I tied against a team 21% weaker (they shot once on goal and scored).
Then I witness my best friend lose to a team 28% weaker after drawing against a team 33% weaker the previous day. In the comments, it said "they were favorites". Sorry Top Eleven but the game is absolute nonsense and it would appear the creators don't understand how numbers work.
Poor review given.
Anyone have a recommendation for a less arbitrary simulator?
They don't give any kind of f*ck about our thoughts... Just look at the event comments, people are spending hundreds of tokens to beat PSG and Real, so mission accomplished. I don't have any kind of hope left... This game is broken and dead and that's how it's gonna remain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucian1986
Unfortunately, I couldn't agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by funker
Agree with miloren. My second team, which I basically create a new team each season and don't watch any games:
306 victories 32 draws 35 losses. 8 Leagues won and 1 Cup won.
My caveat is that it is harder to win Cups and Champion Leagues when you don't watch or take care of the team. Otherwise, the leagues are a breeze and it matters very little.
