Season 135 - Are you ready?

[Arphaxad]

i don t think drawing against a 18% worse team is a tragedy. I would have played with AML/R if i wanted to score, not with ML/MR and only a ST. Are you trying to defend or win the match?

This was not from the game I drew. I played 451v the game I tried to win. Nevertheless, I'm just fed up with the randomness. As I said, you win 7-1, the next you draw. The team has no coach nothing. It's just not realistic and thus it becomes boring. And it's not the first time this season. Way to many random results to even being funny.

Team is up for grabs. I'll close it down on Saturday.

[Grandef]

This was not from the game I drew. I played 451v the game I tried to win. Nevertheless, I'm just fed up with the randomness. As I said, you win 7-1, the next you draw. The team has no coach nothing. It's just not realistic and thus it becomes boring. And it's not the first time this season. Way to many random results to even being funny.

Team is up for grabs. I'll close it down on Saturday.

It's sad that you quit. I was thinking that they fixed the troll or randomness results as I don't have for several seasons.

[Arphaxad]

It's sad that you quit. I was thinking that they fixed the troll or randomness results as I don't have for several seasons.

I'm sure I'm not alone regarding this, as I'm not trying to imply that the game is against me specifically. It's just that there're to many random factors at play. I mean, I get that Nordeus don't want to fix some "problems" as they're making money out of them, i.e. the tanker situation. That's fine. I get it. They don't engage in charity. They're doing business.

But there're several things they could rectify in order to make this game more realistic and fun:

- Draws: don't make it black or white. Either you manipulate the sh*t out of the draws before the season ends and steam roll your opposition the next season, or you get stuck with tankers. Just put some effort into the algorithm resulting in competitive draws. Also, what are the incentives for managers to actually put in some effort in training and finding great players if you're going to get drawn against tougher opponents? There are none. Just leave your team as it is because if you develop a qualitative and competitive team, you're going to get drawn against tankers and extremely tough opponents.

- Corners: this is completely random. You could have 5 aerial defenders and the opposition could still have 2 players unmarked in your box. I get it, sometimes it happens. But if you want us to truly be managers and take control, give us the control required. Let us decide how to set up our team on corners, i.e. chose the player positions and even how to take the corners (short, long, near post, far post). If I'm in the lead and I get a corner in 80-90', I don't want to give away possession. I should be able to play a short corner and (probably) keep possession.

- Throw ins: same here. Sometimes my AML is taking the throw in in my own half while the whole opposing team is on the other side of the field. Why? I'm basically losing out on an offensive player. Let us decide who takes the throw ins. It can't be hard to fix. Hell, even I could fix that in their coding. And I'm not even a programmer.

- Let us set individual tactical orders. Sometimes when you play and important cup/cl-game in the later stages, you have a handful of players with a yellow card. As a result, you're fearing a second booking and suspension. So what you do is you set tackling to "easy" out of fear. This is ridiculous. Let us set individual tactical orders so I can tell my booked players to tackle easy and the others to tackle normal/hard. Same goes for marking. Sometimes I want just one specific opposition player man-marked. Let me do that, etc etc.

- White skills vs. grey skills: what's up with that? Nobody knows how this works. Are grey skills unimportant or not? At least let us know. I Think it's absolute nonsense that there are teams with mutant players where a DC has negative speed value. Yes, it's not the most vital attribute, but it sure is important. You can't set up a defense with a snail and a turtle and expect to win. But apparently, that's how it works in TE. I can have a DC with negative speed value out-running a ST with 680 speed value. Come on.

- Cosmetic factors: Why are height, foot, weight cosmetic factors? Let them be important factors as it would add much to the playing experience. As it is now, I could have a 168 cm, 60 kg, right footed AML producing world class crosses with his left foot or out-jumping a 195 cm DC or tackling a 92 kg DC. Sure, it could happen, but it probably wouldn't. These are not cosmetic factors in real life. Why should they be in TE which tries to emulate real life football?

I could go on forever. There're several things Nordeus could implement that wont affect their income while considerably increasing the playing experience and eliminating the factor of randomness.

Just yesterday I had a CL game where I analysed and planned before hand to perfection. I was 3-0 up. The opponent couldn't create anything of value. Absolutely nothing. Opponent gets two corners in 80' and 90' and scores on both. If I had the possibility to set orders for corners, this probably wouldn't happen. Later I had another game against an abandoned team which I beat 1-7 in our first game. The second game ended 1-1 with the same pre-conditions as before and the team still being abandoned. I maxed out everything; training bonuses, condition, morale, league bonus for winning, +18 % overall quality, counter formation/tactics. Game ended 1-1. Why? How? They didn't have a freaking coach, no bonuses, no nothing.

Now, I get that sometimes sh*t happens. As a matter of fact, it did last week in the cup. I was knocked out in the QF on away goal which I conceded in 90'... on a corner... again. I'm fine with it. It could happen. It's still random, but could happen. But at least give us control of these factors instead of leaving them to randomness. If nothing else, it would at least not allow us to whine about the random factor anymore. As of now, it feels like these things are left out of our control in order to be in Nordeus' control so that the game engine can adjust results however it deems fit. Corners is a great example. And don't get me started on free kicks.

I've quit several other games because of the random factor. I thought TE would be different as one would be able to actually control the environment. I thought it would be a matter of strategic knowledge and probability and not a matter of randomness. I was wrong.

Anyways, the team is still up for grabs for another 24h.

/End rant.

[EastsiderSG]

I'm sure I'm not alone regarding this, as I'm not trying to imply that the game is against me specifically. It's just that there're to many random factors at play. I mean, I get that Nordeus don't want to fix some "problems" as they're making money out of them, i.e. the tanker situation. That's fine. I get it. They don't engage in charity. They're doing business.

But there're several things they could rectify in order to make this game more realistic and fun:

- Draws: don't make it black or white. Either you manipulate the sh*t out of the draws before the season ends and steam roll your opposition the next season, or you get stuck with tankers. Just put some effort into the algorithm resulting in competitive draws. Also, what are the incentives for managers to actually put in some effort in training and finding great players if you're going to get drawn against tougher opponents? There are none. Just leave your team as it is because if you develop a qualitative and competitive team, you're going to get drawn against tankers and extremely tough opponents.

- Corners: this is completely random. You could have 5 aerial defenders and the opposition could still have 2 players unmarked in your box. I get it, sometimes it happens. But if you want us to truly be managers and take control, give us the control required. Let us decide how to set up our team on corners, i.e. chose the player positions and even how to take the corners (short, long, near post, far post). If I'm in the lead and I get a corner in 80-90', I don't want to give away possession. I should be able to play a short corner and (probably) keep possession.

- Throw ins: same here. Sometimes my AML is taking the throw in in my own half while the whole opposing team is on the other side of the field. Why? I'm basically losing out on an offensive player. Let us decide who takes the throw ins. It can't be hard to fix. Hell, even I could fix that in their coding. And I'm not even a programmer.

- Let us set individual tactical orders. Sometimes when you play and important cup/cl-game in the later stages, you have a handful of players with a yellow card. As a result, you're fearing a second booking and suspension. So what you do is you set tackling to "easy" out of fear. This is ridiculous. Let us set individual tactical orders so I can tell my booked players to tackle easy and the others to tackle normal/hard. Same goes for marking. Sometimes I want just one specific opposition player man-marked. Let me do that, etc etc.

- White skills vs. grey skills: what's up with that? Nobody knows how this works. Are grey skills unimportant or not? At least let us know. I Think it's absolute nonsense that there are teams with mutant players where a DC has negative speed value. Yes, it's not the most vital attribute, but it sure is important. You can't set up a defense with a snail and a turtle and expect to win. But apparently, that's how it works in TE. I can have a DC with negative speed value out-running a ST with 680 speed value. Come on.

- Cosmetic factors: Why are height, foot, weight cosmetic factors? Let them be important factors as it would add much to the playing experience. As it is now, I could have a 168 cm, 60 kg, right footed AML producing world class crosses with his left foot or out-jumping a 195 cm DC or tackling a 92 kg DC. Sure, it could happen, but it probably wouldn't. These are not cosmetic factors in real life. Why should they be in TE which tries to emulate real life football?

I could go on forever. There're several things Nordeus could implement that wont affect their income while considerably increasing the playing experience and eliminating the factor of randomness.

Just yesterday I had a CL game where I analysed and planned before hand to perfection. I was 3-0 up. The opponent couldn't create anything of value. Absolutely nothing. Opponent gets two corners in 80' and 90' and scores on both. If I had the possibility to set orders for corners, this probably wouldn't happen. Later I had another game against an abandoned team which I beat 1-7 in our first game. The second game ended 1-1 with the same pre-conditions as before and the team still being abandoned. I maxed out everything; training bonuses, condition, morale, league bonus for winning, +18 % overall quality, counter formation/tactics. Game ended 1-1. Why? How? They didn't have a freaking coach, no bonuses, no nothing.

Now, I get that sometimes sh*t happens. As a matter of fact, it did last week in the cup. I was knocked out in the QF on away goal which I conceded in 90'... on a corner... again. I'm fine with it. It could happen. It's still random, but could happen. But at least give us control of these factors instead of leaving them to randomness. If nothing else, it would at least not allow us to whine about the random factor anymore. As of now, it feels like these things are left out of our control in order to be in Nordeus' control so that the game engine can adjust results however it deems fit. Corners is a great example. And don't get me started on free kicks.

I've quit several other games because of the random factor. I thought TE would be different as one would be able to actually control the environment. I thought it would be a matter of strategic knowledge and probability and not a matter of randomness. I was wrong.

Anyways, the team is still up for grabs for another 24h.

/End rant.

Nope you’re not alone and apologies for wrongfully accusing you for manipulating previously. The latter is long overdue. Anyway, what you mentioned is accurate in my opinion and is the reason many manipulate. This randomness is very frequent when you do not manipulate. It still happens when you manipulate but is alot less frequent and only if a team improves alot or there is a fellow manipulator in your competition. The engine tries to make it more competitive and keep thing close as thats what many players want. Thats why we should be careful what we ask for. I have never seen us benefitting from our many requests for change.

You’re a good manager. Shame for you to quit after you contributed a calculator and helped many players here. I would just manipulate if i were you and take it easy. Just dont bother about the non manipulators trying to discredit you. It wasnt like this when one of the retired moderators Nik used to be around as he used to manipulate as well and very effectively. Now it seems, it is the fault of the players who choose to manipulate instead of looking at the source of the problem. Everyone of us has a choice. Either manipulate or play with bad draws and randomness. If you choose the latter, you should know what to expect and blame yourself as you chose your fate. After all, everyone here is knowledgeable enough to know how it works.

[Arphaxad]

Nope you’re not alone and apologies for wrongfully accusing you for manipulating previously. The latter is long overdue. Anyway, what you mentioned is accurate in my opinion and is the reason many manipulate. This randomness is very frequent when you do not manipulate. It still happens when you manipulate but is alot less frequent and only if a team improves alot or there is a fellow manipulator in your competition. The engine tries to make it more competitive and keep thing close as thats what many players want. Thats why we should be careful what we ask for. I have never seen us benefitting from our many requests for change.

You’re a good manager. Shame for you to quit after you contributed a calculator and helped many players here. I would just manipulate if i were you and take it easy. Just dont bother about the non manipulators trying to discredit you. It wasnt like this when one of the retired moderators Nik used to be around as he used to manipulate as well and very effectively. Now it seems, it is the fault of the players who choose to manipulate instead of looking at the source of the problem. Everyone of us has a choice. Either manipulate or play with bad draws and randomness. If you choose the latter, you should know what to expect and blame yourself as you chose your fate. After all, everyone here is knowledgeable enough to know how it works.

Thanks for your support, mate. And don't sweat it, I didn't take it personal.

Regarding manipulation, I did that for 4 seasons (actually, 1 season was soft manipulation and 1 barely any) and basically won everything there was to win and went through all 4 seasons with only 3 losses that came when I either played my 1 % reserve team or didn't attend. It wasn't fun.

It's not like I'm looking to dominate everything without competition. That's boring. What I'm looking for is competition, as you described, but without the random factor. If Nordeus is going to pump up the performance of 30-40 % inferior and abandoned teams, just draw us against equal teams instead. The algorithm for this should be easy to solve; make draws based on +/- 10 % teams and put in a parameter that takes into consideration to draw teams that promote against each other in order to avoid tankers. Draw tankers and abandoned teams against each other instead. Nordeus has all required data to make this happen.

As I said, it shouldn't be black or white. Make it enjoyable.

[EastsiderSG]

Thanks for your support, mate. And don't sweat it, I didn't take it personal.

Regarding manipulation, I did that for 4 seasons (actually, 1 season was soft manipulation and 1 barely any) and basically won everything there was to win and went through all 4 seasons with only 3 losses that came when I either played my 1 % reserve team or didn't attend. It wasn't fun.

It's not like I'm looking to dominate everything without competition. That's boring. What I'm looking for is competition, as you described, but without the random factor. If Nordeus is going to pump up the performance of 30-40 % inferior and abandoned teams, just draw us against equal teams instead. The algorithm for this should be easy to solve; make draws based on +/- 10 % teams and put in a parameter that takes into consideration to draw teams that promote against each other in order to avoid tankers. Draw tankers and abandoned teams against each other instead. Nordeus has all required data to make this happen.

As I said, it shouldn't be black or white. Make it enjoyable.

Thats basically it. Competitiveness always comes with randomness as thats how they keep things close. Boredom and lack of competition come together as well. Its just which we decide to play. I know what players want is the fine line in the middle. We dont have that now. Maybe we might have that in the future after facing alot of bugs that eliminate us from many competitions. The only way for us to see improvement is at our expense

[Grandef]

I'm sure I'm not alone regarding this, as I'm not trying to imply that the game is against me specifically. It's just that there're to many random factors at play. I mean, I get that Nordeus don't want to fix some "problems" as they're making money out of them, i.e. the tanker situation. That's fine. I get it. They don't engage in charity. They're doing business.

But there're several things they could rectify in order to make this game more realistic and fun:

- Draws: don't make it black or white. Either you manipulate the sh*t out of the draws before the season ends and steam roll your opposition the next season, or you get stuck with tankers. Just put some effort into the algorithm resulting in competitive draws. Also, what are the incentives for managers to actually put in some effort in training and finding great players if you're going to get drawn against tougher opponents? There are none. Just leave your team as it is because if you develop a qualitative and competitive team, you're going to get drawn against tankers and extremely tough opponents.

- Corners: this is completely random. You could have 5 aerial defenders and the opposition could still have 2 players unmarked in your box. I get it, sometimes it happens. But if you want us to truly be managers and take control, give us the control required. Let us decide how to set up our team on corners, i.e. chose the player positions and even how to take the corners (short, long, near post, far post). If I'm in the lead and I get a corner in 80-90', I don't want to give away possession. I should be able to play a short corner and (probably) keep possession.

- Throw ins: same here. Sometimes my AML is taking the throw in in my own half while the whole opposing team is on the other side of the field. Why? I'm basically losing out on an offensive player. Let us decide who takes the throw ins. It can't be hard to fix. Hell, even I could fix that in their coding. And I'm not even a programmer.

- Let us set individual tactical orders. Sometimes when you play and important cup/cl-game in the later stages, you have a handful of players with a yellow card. As a result, you're fearing a second booking and suspension. So what you do is you set tackling to "easy" out of fear. This is ridiculous. Let us set individual tactical orders so I can tell my booked players to tackle easy and the others to tackle normal/hard. Same goes for marking. Sometimes I want just one specific opposition player man-marked. Let me do that, etc etc.

- White skills vs. grey skills: what's up with that? Nobody knows how this works. Are grey skills unimportant or not? At least let us know. I Think it's absolute nonsense that there are teams with mutant players where a DC has negative speed value. Yes, it's not the most vital attribute, but it sure is important. You can't set up a defense with a snail and a turtle and expect to win. But apparently, that's how it works in TE. I can have a DC with negative speed value out-running a ST with 680 speed value. Come on.

- Cosmetic factors: Why are height, foot, weight cosmetic factors? Let them be important factors as it would add much to the playing experience. As it is now, I could have a 168 cm, 60 kg, right footed AML producing world class crosses with his left foot or out-jumping a 195 cm DC or tackling a 92 kg DC. Sure, it could happen, but it probably wouldn't. These are not cosmetic factors in real life. Why should they be in TE which tries to emulate real life football?

I could go on forever. There're several things Nordeus could implement that wont affect their income while considerably increasing the playing experience and eliminating the factor of randomness.

Just yesterday I had a CL game where I analysed and planned before hand to perfection. I was 3-0 up. The opponent couldn't create anything of value. Absolutely nothing. Opponent gets two corners in 80' and 90' and scores on both. If I had the possibility to set orders for corners, this probably wouldn't happen. Later I had another game against an abandoned team which I beat 1-7 in our first game. The second game ended 1-1 with the same pre-conditions as before and the team still being abandoned. I maxed out everything; training bonuses, condition, morale, league bonus for winning, +18 % overall quality, counter formation/tactics. Game ended 1-1. Why? How? They didn't have a freaking coach, no bonuses, no nothing.

Now, I get that sometimes sh*t happens. As a matter of fact, it did last week in the cup. I was knocked out in the QF on away goal which I conceded in 90'... on a corner... again. I'm fine with it. It could happen. It's still random, but could happen. But at least give us control of these factors instead of leaving them to randomness. If nothing else, it would at least not allow us to whine about the random factor anymore. As of now, it feels like these things are left out of our control in order to be in Nordeus' control so that the game engine can adjust results however it deems fit. Corners is a great example. And don't get me started on free kicks.

I've quit several other games because of the random factor. I thought TE would be different as one would be able to actually control the environment. I thought it would be a matter of strategic knowledge and probability and not a matter of randomness. I was wrong.

Anyways, the team is still up for grabs for another 24h.

/End rant.

Very well write up, I agree with you that the game should be like this. However, my understanding of the game mechanism is not as complicated, it's more or less a game of probability. What we see in 2D live match are just some preset scenes (aka cosmetic) that represent the probability (aka randomness with some bias).
Anyway, good luck with whatever you do.

[Arphaxad]

Very well write up, I agree with you that the game should be like this. However, my understanding of the game mechanism is not as complicated, it's more or less a game of probability. What we see in 2D live match are just some preset scenes (aka cosmetic) that represent the probability (aka randomness with some bias).
Anyway, good luck with whatever you do.

Thanks, mate. If I remember correct, Football Manager had all the above factors included in their game 15-20 years ago. It's not that hard to implement if there's a will. Those are pretty basic and easy fixes, to be honest. Any programmer worth his or her title would be able to make it happen.

I'm aware of the fact that the game isn't that complicated and is thus based on random probability (I know, it doesn't even make sense, but neither does TE), which is the whole reason for my animosity towards it.

[EastsiderSG]

Thanks, mate. If I remember correct, Football Manager had all the above factors included in their game 15-20 years ago. It's not that hard to implement if there's a will. Those are pretty basic and easy fixes, to be honest. Any programmer worth his or her title would be able to make it happen.

I'm aware of the fact that the game isn't that complicated and is thus based on random probability (I know, it doesn't even make sense, but neither does TE), which is the whole reason for my animosity towards it.

While it is possible. TE still has to make sure they will increase revenue. Any small change could cause many players to leave the game and there is no point putting in any effort if there is no revenue/profit gain. They have to get their analytics done right. We can discuss what we want all day here but if their data and statistics tell a different story, it would be a no go. I do not blame them, all businesses have annual profit growth targets.

[khris]

Thanks, mate. If I remember correct, Football Manager had all the above factors included in their game 15-20 years ago. It's not that hard to implement if there's a will. Those are pretty basic and easy fixes, to be honest. Any programmer worth his or her title would be able to make it happen.

I'm aware of the fact that the game isn't that complicated and is thus based on random probability (I know, it doesn't even make sense, but neither does TE), which is the whole reason for my animosity towards it.

Scenario variables, and, not precisely lots of factors, the reality is that very "few selected factors"affect a particular game scenario. Somewhere I did a resume about this, too in the spanish subforum mentioning the many existing factors and why there can't be more factors liek weight, foot etc... because we have a good list now and each scenario is so particular cause the few factors selected as determinant.

Scenario lecture and knowledge about the own team internal programming is the key here. Then once you do this right, you have the chances. And once you understand how the engine thinks, and interprets the settings, that isn't in a 1vs1 way or logical way, then you finally earned the supreme knowledge to play this game and turn every single scenario you face.