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[HeavensAAA]

Not sure why you called yourself a crap manager and the response expected or is this just to create buzz. Many managers did much better and many more did worse. We all can check records of teams through associations so you know what minamino mentioned isnt entirely false. While you did face those difficulties, why have the greek managers of similar level and experience to you faired so much better? Anyway, Dave already mentioned minamino is his friend and a good non cheating manager so i would think he knows his stuff.

That was started just because minamino suggested all managers who have 5 STs or more in squad are crap. That is pretty provocative there.

And that alone would upset lots of managers who do play favourite formations with 2 STs (who would have 1 or even 2 STs subs), a mix of ST/AML(R)s as wing forwards, or simply managers like myself who play a lone ST, but with a good ST sub on the bench plus 3 reserves who have ST roles to help tpb training (not all bought as STs but AMCs completed ST role task and on 49/50 of MC role/SA training for next tasks).

Groups like mine is probably least offended as I would just dismiss no-planning managers’ ignorance;
If I do play 2-top or even 3 forwards with ST/AML(R) variations regularly, and then someone call me crap just because I do have 3 first teamers with ST, and another 2 STs on bench, then I definitely will fight back for my pride in choice of formation and play, if that makes sense.

And as we all know very well why better records do not equal to better managers anyway. Laughing at others’ record is really low.

[EastsiderSG]

That was started just because minamino suggested all managers who have 5 STs or more in squad are crap. That is pretty provocative there.

And that alone would upset lots of managers who do play favourite formations with 2 STs (who would have 1 or even 2 STs subs), a mix of ST/AML(R)s as wing forwards, or simply managers like myself who play a lone ST, but with a good ST sub on the bench plus 3 reserves who have ST roles to help tpb training (not all bought as STs but AMCs completed ST role task and on 49/50 of MC role/SA training for next tasks).

Groups like mine is probably least offended as I would just dismiss no-planning managers’ ignorance;
If I do play 2-top or even 3 forwards with ST/AML(R) variations regularly, and then someone call me crap just because I do have 3 first teamers with ST, and another 2 STs on bench, then I definitely will fight back for my pride in choice of formation and play, if that makes sense.

And as we all know very well why better records do not equal to better managers anyway. Laughing at others’ record is really low.

There were only 2 ways to respond to post. Either you encourage him and tell him no he is wrong and that he is not a crap manager or be agreeable. Is it wrong to be agreeable and voice the opinion that too many STs is mismanagement. Not everyone is blessed with the ability to be diplomatic. While you say it is low to laugh at others record. Is it not low to criticise tankers like you do and act all superior when you beat them in events? Or are they ok as targets from your perspective.

Yes it doesn't mean good records are good managers and bad records doesn't mean bad managers. It actually points towards activity and how much effort you put in. The Greeks had a good gaming strategy which any of us can do but many preferred to be lazy and just whine instead of selling trained players and training a new one from scratch every season.

[HeavensAAA]

There were only 2 ways to respond to post. Either you encourage him and tell him no he is wrong and that he is not a crap manager or be agreeable. Is it wrong to be agreeable and voice the opinion that too many STs is mismanagement. Not everyone is blessed with the ability to be diplomatic. While you say it is low to laugh at others record. Is it not low to criticise tankers like you do and act all superior when you beat them in events? Or are they ok as targets from your perspective.

Yes it doesn't mean good records are good managers and bad records doesn't mean bad managers. It actually points towards activity and how much effort you put in. The Greeks had a good gaming strategy which any of us can do but many preferred to be lazy and just whine instead of selling trained players and training a new one from scratch every season.

Yes, you are right that any could have posted that he was wrong.

The issue is minamino started suggesting any manager who has 5 STs is crap first - you could check back the thread on the sequence of this event first. I surely wasn’t happy at all too - I do have 5 players of 27 having ST role too. You could have a look and see if this is mismanagement or good management.




With regards to tankers, I always maintain 2 things:
1) Situational tankers, say who have to take time off because of personal life matters (eg. Long vacation) or simply being too busy (eg. work commitments), are always understandable and should not be criticised in any way (if anything, Nordeus should take part of the blame in not having an holiday option for managers);
2) Intentional abusing tankers who aim to win all other trophies (except league) and also abuse events are what most managers despise

I do criticise those intentional abusing tankers who take the fun of game away from many fellow managers. That is my stand and I stand being corrected if it is wrong too.

Cannot speak for others, but I do build my team from only buying players from auctions and then training them with a specific aim to fit them into the style I like to play with. Intentional abusing tankers do the opposite to ruin a fair fighting chance on events for other managers, so personally I take more gratification in beating them with my 15-20% weaker team. I am definitely not superior, but surely enjoy a whole lot more than beating a same-quality manager in those circumstances and will show my joy too.

[EastsiderSG]

Yes, you are right that any could have posted that he was wrong.

The issue is minamino started suggesting any manager who has 5 STs is crap first - you could check back the thread on the sequence of this event first. I surely wasn’t happy at all too - I do have 5 players of 27 having ST role too. You could have a look and see if this is mismanagement or good management.




With regards to tankers, I always maintain 2 things:
1) Situational tankers, say who have to take time off because of personal life matters (eg. Long vacation) or simply being too busy (eg. work commitments), are always understandable and should not be criticised in any way (if anything, Nordeus should take part of the blame in not having an holiday option for managers);
2) Intentional abusing tankers who aim to win all other trophies (except league) and also abuse events are what most managers despise

I do criticise those intentional abusing tankers who take the fun of game away from many fellow managers. That is my stand and I stand being corrected if it is wrong too.

Cannot speak for others, but I do build my team from only buying players from auctions and then training them with a specific aim to fit them into the style I like to play with. Intentional abusing tankers do the opposite to ruin a fair fighting chance on events for other managers, so personally I take more gratification in beating them with my 15-20% weaker team. I am definitely not superior, but surely enjoy a whole lot more than beating a same-quality manager in those circumstances and will show my joy too.

With regards to mismanagement, many of us in some way are guilty of it. Like i mentioned, when someone calls himself a crap manager and displays his record, is he fishing for a compliment? Cant another forumer share his opinion if its negative or does it have to stroke his ego. I prefer records like yours to those of blok45 so i will let him know. He says things were more difficult in the past but i know alot of players who are high level and do alot better. These good record players all think players with Bad records are lazy. And players with bad records say players with good records are cheats.

I do not share minamino’s opinion on the ST portion as i think formation is cosmetic. Only formation. TACTICS are crucial. To me all the bs on formations is just noise that i ignore. Anyone who used to follow Niks guides in the past would have read countless of comments stating so.

Essentially what you said is correct. You have your stand and so do i. You responded defending blok and i responded defending minamino. Simply that. Both of us have our rights to do so. You think that tankers who win trophies ought to be criticised. I think the game needs to be criticised for allowing it. Perhaps you think there is no way the game will change so target the players? I think no way you can change players minds so better to tackle the problem at its roots.

Points to think about

In the top 100 players with trophies, how many players have english as a first language? I dont think i see many english speaking players.
Greeks are the most influential in the game in the recent survey. Can your voice be louder than those who have more influence? How do you influence the influencers?

[HeavensAAA]

With regards to mismanagement, many of us in some way are guilty of it. Like i mentioned, when someone calls himself a crap manager and displays his record, is he fishing for a compliment? Can another forumer share his opinion if its negative or does it have to stroke his ego. I prefer records like yours to those of blok45 so i will let him know. He says things were more difficult in the past but i know alot of players who are high level and do alot better. These good record players all think players with Bad records are lazy. And players with bad records say players with good records are cheats. Many people speak up for both sides and there is no end to it.

Essentially what you said is correct. You have your stand and so do i. You responded defending blok and i responded defending minamino. Simply that. Both of us have our rights to do so. You think that tankers who win trophies ought to be criticised. I think the game needs to be criticised for allowing it. Perhaps you think there is no way the game will change so target the players? I think no way you can change players minds so better to tackle the problem at its roots.

I do not share minamino’s opinion as i think formation is cosmetic. Only formation. TACTICS are crucial. To me all the bs on formations is just noise that i ignore. I refuse to blame the players and say stuff just to benefit the game/developer. You are sounding more and more like an employee. The game needs to be fixed. I do not see why anyone shouldnt exploit these loopholes and lose out to players who do. If cheats, hacks and loopholes exist, the developer needs to fix it. Turning players against each other using mystery forumers isnt the best method.




Points to think about

In the top 100 players with trophies, how many players have english as a first language? I dont think i see any english speaking players. You are from HK, you should know that most mainlanders cheat as well. Ironically HK and China are one but the residents behave so different

Yes, indeed. That’s why I very much respect your standpoint defending minamino while myself defending blok45 on this very topic, as we probably share similar views in most other issues.

When it comes to mismanagement, I surely had my horrible moment when I was so careless in forgetting to renew contracts of several players before end of last season, resulting in an extremely horrible draw in the Cup this season (122%, drawn with 148% plus no less than 10x teams of 115%-133%). Already managed 2 comeback draws of 1-1 & 2-2 in 2nd legs after comfortable 1st leg wins, with the 2-2 game with 23 shots and only 4 on target (typical troll game but managed to scrape through it). Expecting every Cup round to be a real fight, and the final will be either of 2 tankers (typical level 4 account which started back 18 & 9 seasons ago and stayed forever). Again it is a huge motivation for me to beat this type of abusing tankers to give them a lesson (that a not-too-bad manipulator could beat an abusing tanker). It will be some achievement if I could keep the unbeaten run going this season to beat a 25% better team.

Records alone is not a useful indicator of how good a manager is. Managers who play it tough with no manipulation or tanking whatsoever will not have a full trophy cabinet and a higher % of losses with the extremely competitive nature. Would be great if there is a stat indicator to show the average quality difference of opponents throughout seasons for us to appreciate and compare.

In terms of Nordeus, I never hold back in criticising them at all (at least a few times every season). An employee of theirs would not be so blunt in criticism and also so revealing about all the possible ways of getting the maximum benefits as freeloaders (I never pay money on this game and never will, because this game can be won fairly without any spending at all). They probably dislike me way more than other forumers as a freeloader should not be able to compete at such rate, which is really the counter-productive to their marketing on premiums and monthly add-ons. (How on earth a level-1 freeloader account can win top prize of KoK? Would they like that?)

With matches, for me, both formation and tactics are equally extremely important. Losing either completely will definitely lose us the match easily. Say if you play a 4-5v-1, and I play a 4-1-3-1AML-ST(skewed left) with equally same stat players, I can guarantee you the latter formation team will win 4/5 times easily, no matter what tactics the former team uses or changes. But when 2 formations are not perfect counter of each other, then the manager who has the better tactics would win. Maybe we could play some friendlies on end day of season to try this out (KoK was extremely boring, but it is a very useful battlefield to verify on perfect counter formations, providing that our team is versatile enough to change and try repeatedly - my team is set up in a way to play every single possible formation, except 3 STs [Yes, not exaggerating every]).

And about your last point about HK & China. Just to state facts and not trying to stir unnecessary conflicts or arguments from mainlanders. Not about who is ‘better’ or ‘worse’, but about the difference:

It all depends on a few things, such as if the person was born before 97, what kind of upbringing the person had, what kind of schools the person attended then, and then what kind of environment the person spends his/her life in.

Typically, the earlier from 97 a person was born, the higher likely the chance the person received education under British colonial rule, which tends to teach more about freedom than nationality; (because colonial rule purposefully conveys less nationalism with more freedom for easier rule then)
Upbringing depends on parents and family, and their values all stem from their own education and life; (not difficult to find out how it works with influx in 60 & 70s)
Schools’ choice like those typically started by Western clerics in 1900s, which often attracted the better talents back in the older days, could also convey more messages about choices and morality with a relatively high level acceptance of different values and development in talents other than just academics;
And then it was and still is popular with HK parents sending kids overseas for higher education, which may further broaden their mindset and adopt even more Western values (eg. Cheating is really wrong, so at least don’t do it even when you can stop others doing it [socially unacceptable] Vs Cheating is common in some aspects in China so join cheating will be easier than not doing it [an environment-forced decision])

Probably the above alone would infuriate a lot of mainlanders already and start claiming HK is now under China rule, etc. One has to understand a few current generations of some 6m+ population who had a very high tendency to accept and embrace different values in most corners of the world are more likely to live with their learned values and way of life gained through years of education and adult life, but not switching to a totally different kind of value, language and other ways of life with just a change of flag on the land.

That would explain the difference of why HK people are different, because they were brought up in a different environment living a different way of life. Again, not claiming better or worse, but just different. Very, very different.

[EastsiderSG]

Yes, indeed. That’s why I very much respect your standpoint defending minamino while myself defending blok45 on this very topic, as we probably share similar views in most other issues.

When it comes to mismanagement, I surely had my horrible moment when I was so careless in forgetting to renew contracts of several players before end of last season, resulting in an extremely horrible draw in the Cup this season (122%, drawn with 148% plus no less than 10x teams of 115%-133%). Already managed 2 comeback draws of 1-1 & 2-2 in 2nd legs after comfortable 1st leg wins, with the 2-2 game with 23 shots and only 4 on target (typical troll game but managed to scrape through it). Expecting every Cup round to be a real fight, and the final will be either of 2 tankers (typical level 4 account which started back 18 & 9 seasons ago and stayed forever). Again it is a huge motivation for me to beat this type of abusing tankers to give them a lesson (that a not-too-bad manipulator could beat an abusing tanker). It will be some achievement if I could keep the unbeaten run going this season to beat a 25% better team.

Records alone is not a useful indicator of how good a manager is. Managers who play it tough with no manipulation or tanking whatsoever will not have a full trophy cabinet and a higher % of losses with the extremely competitive nature. Would be great if there is a stat indicator to show the average quality difference of opponents throughout seasons for us to appreciate and compare.

In terms of Nordeus, I never hold back in criticising them at all (at least a few times every season). An employee of theirs would not be so blunt in criticism and also so revealing about all the possible ways of getting the maximum benefits as freeloaders (I never pay money on this game and never will, because this game can be won fairly without any spending at all). They probably dislike me way more than other forumers as a freeloader should not be able to compete at such rate, which is really the counter-productive to their marketing on premiums and monthly add-ons. (How on earth a level-1 freeloader account can win top prize of KoK? Would they like that?)

With matches, for me, both formation and tactics are equally extremely important. Losing either completely will definitely lose us the match easily. Say if you play a 4-5v-1, and I play a 4-1-3-1AML-ST(skewed left) with equally same stat players, I can guarantee you the latter formation team will win 4/5 times easily, no matter what tactics the former team uses or changes. But when 2 formations are not perfect counter of each other, then the manager who has the better tactics would win. Maybe we could play some friendlies on end day of season to try this out (KoK was extremely boring, but it is a very useful battlefield to verify on perfect counter formations, providing that our team is versatile enough to change and try repeatedly - my team is set up in a way to play every single possible formation, except 3 STs [Yes, not exaggerating every]).

And about your last point about HK & China. Just to state facts and not trying to stir unnecessary conflicts or arguments from mainlanders. Not about who is ‘better’ or ‘worse’, but about the difference:

It all depends on a few things, such as if the person was born before 97, what kind of upbringing the person had, what kind of schools the person attended then, and then what kind of environment the person spends his/her life in.

Typically, the earlier from 97 a person was born, the higher likely the chance the person received education under British colonial rule, which tends to teach more about freedom than nationality; (because colonial rule purposefully conveys less nationalism with more freedom for easier rule then)
Upbringing depends on parents and family, and their values all stem from their own education and life; (not difficult to find out how it works with influx in 60 & 70s)
Schools’ choice like those typically started by Western clerics in 1900s, which often attracted the better talents back in the older days, could also convey more messages about choices and morality with a relatively high level acceptance of different values and development in talents other than just academics;
And then it was and still is popular with HK parents sending kids overseas for higher education, which may further broaden their mindset and adopt even more Western values (eg. Cheating is really wrong, so at least don’t do it even when you can stop others doing it [socially unacceptable] Vs Cheating is common in some aspects in China so join cheating will be easier than not doing it [an environment-forced decision])

Probably the above alone would infuriate a lot of mainlanders already and start claiming HK is now under China rule, etc. One has to understand a few current generations of some 6m+ population who had a very high tendency to accept and embrace different values in most corners of the world are more likely to live with their learned values and way of life gained through years of education and adult life, but not switching to a totally different kind of value, language and other ways of life with just a change of flag on the land.

That would explain the difference of why HK people are different, because they were brought up in a different environment living a different way of life. Again, not claiming better or worse, but just different. Very, very different.

While I do agree that records do not accurately identify a good manager. There is a clear distinction between a manager who puts in effort vs those who do not put in effort among non manipulators. I was once a non manipulator. Never did I have more losses than draws. And the win rate still remains high as I get knocked out over 2 matches or 1 in cup and CL. But usually win the league and would win almost all my matches prior to being knocked out. The players who show me records with so many losses and expect to be treated like they have alot of experience are misleading new players. They have definitely tanked prior or have been inactive for so long that their experience is no better than the low levels. But I can tell you for certain, a good trophy haul does show the manager is good at high levels. Everyone manipulates these days so it ain't a walk in the park for such managers as well.

Also we have to keep an open mind. If we have a few accounts, would you expect every account to play the same way? I don't know about you but I wouldn't. I would definitely have a tanking account that is aimed at destroying others records. I would find that fun if I had the time.

I agree on everything you said on HK vs the mainland. I have much more to add but this ain't the place and that's why I had that whole part removed from my post. Somehow u clicked reply before I was done editing. All I will mention is most of the cheating and scamming in my country originates from China and Africa.