Testing SA's Thread

I think we have pending analyze deeply how a player changes when we add him a SA.

He is more participative? nothing changes? we see him in some particular situations in what before he did not participe? like really, he is dribbling more? help un using his/her head... really now becomes the best man of our team in Freekicks?


I think thats a far long a theme tha should be analyzed and have a thread to post experiences to share and see if is worth train and in what sense can affect and the % of impact that can have this.

Lets see, I encourage you all to share your Special Ability training experiences.
Cheers!

Great thread!

I am mapping a corner specialist next.

I have One on One stopper and he has a higher chance to snatch the ball perfectly in One on One battle with the Lone Striker

I think the latest months , "aerial" and "defensive wall" counters, eliminated the F-K and C-K specialists.
Also I don't understand why the sa of my C-K is blinking but the ball is going in an area where there are only 2-3 oppo defenders !
What's the special about it :confused:

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Originally Posted by Al Svanberg

Great thread!

I am mapping a corner specialist next.

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I notice CK need "crossing + creativity + finishing", I'm not sure I'm totally right or not but if you start to research then it'll teach us more about ck :)
also I notice those 3 abilities point difference require a significant gap, like

a dl+dc+dml : crossing 98, finishing 71, creativity 76 were doing good but when his abilities increase like crossing 133, finishing 88, creativity 80, he doesn't performing his SA as before. I have one mc+ml+dml who doing good as a ck too but as his abilities point increase those 3 (crossing + creativity + finishing) point difference gap also change and he not performing as good as before. Although I don't know any other abilities (like shooting, strength, bravery etc) also related with this ck or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos

Also I don't understand why the sa of my C-K is blinking but the ball is going in an area where there are only 2-3 oppo defenders !

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right I notice that too, today on my cup match 2 corner shot, both time its blink but ... :(

Question please, does "aerial"'s foot matter, I mean if opponent ck kicking left corner shot then my 'aerial' has to be left or either footer. Last season I see one match my right footer aerial defender fail to save left corner kick.

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Question please, does "aerial"'s foot matter, I mean if opponent ck kicking left corner shot then my 'aerial' has to be left or either footer. Last season I see one match my right footer aerial defender fail to save left corner kick.

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What ?
Footedness in F-K or C-K doesn't matter even for the shooters, not the defenders :p

This is my Corner-Specialist:

Attachment 74612

I am mapping how many assists he gets from corners compared to the corner taker Al FC that only is a play-maker.

Its hard to get any great track on it, it of course also depends on the player in the box and so forth. Opponents. But its always something.

I picked a DL because that is the position that can get the highest crossing ability. I recon that creativity also can have an impact, but I am starting with crossing. I am hoping to get the crossing ability of Juanfran to 300+% down the road.

This is my Free-kick specialist, a real monster. Almost 2 goals per game on avg, despite not always having that high quality. He was 3 stars when I picked him up as depth, but he scored so much that I kept him. MoM alone drove his development the first season... He isn't that aggressive or good at tackling though. The fans are calling him Gandhi at times.

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Well, looking that my new academy MC win 155 max progres and min 108 or so, added him the Playmaker SA... let's see the before-after....

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I made a comparison between CK and PM a few months ago (click me)

After 27 games:
PM: average rating: 9,0; 13 goals, 20 assists (14 CK)
CK: average rating: 8,0, 3 goal, 10 assists (7 CK)

My PM is gone at the beginning of this season, because he couldn't go with the teamquality and his performance dropped down.

My new PM doesn't assist (directly) that amount. He played 78 games and made only 13 direct assists, BUT his rating looks nice (average 8,9 at moment).
My old PM made at his last season 22 assists (47 appearances).

Maybe ibangali discovered something, my CK (kicked all from left side) made "only" 7 assists (29 games). I remember, 2 weren't from CK.
His stats: 158% passing, 166% crossing, 139% creativity and 35% finishing.
My (new) PM: 211% passing, 172% crossing, 167% creativity and 220% finishing.

So I don't think, finishing is important. Maybe they have a hidden SA, and if you train him the right one, it works better. Because the difference between old and new PM is really big.

Good study, Nash. Would you agree that effectiveness of PM might be position dependent? I have a DMR/ DR who uses it often if played in MR, but less it seems in the more defensive spots. He might have been ok taking corner or free kicks, too, only tried a few.

Similarly I have a DC/ DMC who I've never seen display the icon when in his usual DC spot, but some matches had the icon, or scored, decisive passes or assist from the DMC spot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LeManiaque

Good study, Nash. Would you agree that effectiveness of PM might be position dependent? I have a DMR/ DR who uses it often if played in MR, but less it seems in the more defensive spots. He might have been ok taking corner or free kicks, too, only tried a few.

Similarly I have a DC/ DMC who I've never seen display the icon when in his usual DC spot, but since matches had the icon, or scores, decisive passes or assist from the DMC spot.

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DC can't have PM ability, therefore player with PM on DC position doesn't use the ability at all.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think there is no such thing as effectiveness of SAs, they either work or not. Maybe DMC/L/R has less chances to use PM than MC/L/R (if you meant that I tend to agree), but I believe there is no penalty. The logic is binary here, otherwise it would be unnecessary overcomplicated. I think =]

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I will have to say we don't know enough to know trust 100% where special abilities can come into effect. Remember too that devs have started not all abilities are shown, so some could also be used in other calculations without animation of comment.

In the case of Riyahi... it's easy to think... play often starts from the GK, if he can pass up to DC with good passing and playmaking, that will be a good option compare to usual DC abilities.

Shooting, finishing, creativity, passing are all grey skill for a DC, but still they will score and create goals in creative ways.

I do mean rate of specialty usage, mostly at least. Just like I think/ expect position makes a difference for rate of shot attempts for attackers.

Here's one easy way the decision doesn't have to be binary:

If ML receives ball

(0-50) pass ball forward (+5 when attacking mentality)
(51-75) dribble ball 0.X second, then check again (+5 if normal)
(76-85) pass ball backwards (+10 if defensive)
(86-90) shoot (+5 if hard attacking)
(91-94) foul
(95-99) specialty attack (-3 if out of position)

Just simple adjustable decision trees, applying % likelihood of attempting an action, with a skill check formula for actions.

These are sophisticated programmers, I have no doubt the logic behind the game can be more complex than simple dice rolls or random chance. Think about how deceptively tricky programming, for example, an animation of the ball elevating and falling during a corner kick; a bit of physics modeling, might not be so hard. But the dynamic team movement, or marking animation? They could be hand done, but to me it seems like relatively complex mathematics modeling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LeManiaque

Good study, Nash. Would you agree that effectiveness of PM might be position dependent?

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I think, center positions are better.
My both PM (old and new) play(ed) MC. For sure, my old PM was optical, based on goals/assists much better than the new one, BUT why is the new one on an average rating of 8,9? There are so many reasons, you can't compare, to get a 100% result: maybe my new PM made the same (or more) assists/goals, if he had played instead of my old.
Maybe Nordeus changed some things about CK, direct assists,... or... Costa is now a legend player, and no one can "beat" him anymore?
(Costa need one more MoM-title for new record of 23 - and we are at the beginning of week 3. oO )

PM of my wife and her brother both DMC. They make no CK, but nearly every game, the icon pops once or twice.

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Originally Posted by LeManiaque

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I will have to say we don't know enough to know trust 100% where special abilities can come into effect. Remember too that devs have started not all abilities are shown, so some could also be used in other calculations without animation of comment.

In the case of Riyahi... it's easy to think... play often starts from the GK, if he can pass up to DC with good passing and playmaking, that will be a good option compare to usual DC abilities.

Shooting, finishing, creativity, passing are all grey skill for a DC, but still they will score and create goals in creative ways.

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I had a defender, who was 25 y.o., shooting and finishing at his last season were 1%, but he scored 12 goals. So, I really don't know, if the attributes are important.

Another example: Costa is my best player at shooting, finishing and creativity. He will be the best player I have (had) for a long time, but he is the worst penalty-kicker.
Kraxner, overall worse at attributes is my penalty-scorer. 4 seasons ago, he started to be my PK, and I don't remember a penalty he missed.
Both are FK.

That's why I think about some hidden stats or something else.

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Originally Posted by nash123

Maybe ibangali discovered something, my CK (kicked all from left side) made "only" 7 assists (29 games). I remember, 2 weren't from CK.
His stats: 158% passing, 166% crossing, 139% creativity and 35% finishing.
My (new) PM: 211% passing, 172% crossing, 167% creativity and 220% finishing.

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Sorry, my screenshot little big. I bring my 5 players in here:

G. Waters - right footer - wall sp
B. Belinga - right footer - fk sp
E. Aubry - either footer - ck sp (good for nothing)
T. Zumbujo - Left footer - ck sp
C. Piarrou - right footer - pm sp

Belinga is my main fk, I use Waters to test or research and he is not doing bad as fk without fk sp, his '3' assists also from fk. For fk, I was thinking player need crossing, shooting, finishing, creativity but Waters shooting skill make me thinking; am I right or wrong about 'shooting', on the other hand, Belinga was doing not bad last 2 season but beginning of this season when his crossing, finishing and creativity goes higher than shooting he was not doing good on fk, then I add up more shooting skill points and he is doing really good, I lost my cup match with same lvl manager but higher q players (all most all 8*), on that match only score come from Belinga's fk.

Now ck, Aubry is my main ck, I spend too much time, resources on him but he is not doing good as ck, can't find whats wrong, if you can find it'll help me to improve. This season I bought Zumbujo (reco scout), he was doing not bad but more I adding his def skill point more he miss the ck, don't know what to do.

Piarrou is my PM, so far good, never use him for ck but as I read your post, thinking to to test him as ck.

thanks

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Good screenshots.

Remember there are other components, the GK, the defenders, and the offensive targets most clearly. Messi will get many FK assists if he could target Sergio Ramos for headers, but he might appear useless if I'm his only target.

I wonder if these specialties have a few different possible calculations, some testing different skill groups. A headed CK vs one that is controlled and passed in to finish...

My take on the PM is that it shows every time a pass is made that results in a goal. There is nothing special with the pass. It can be a good pass or just an easy one. In close or from far away.

Ds and especially DCs make very few assists anyway -- how could we know if it's working or not by just going by the sign? Like if the going rate is 3 assists per DC and season, a PM getting 4 would be a 33% increase, but it's so marginal that it's lost in the margin of error.

My best guess is that the Dribbler and PM ability always are in effect. Like giving each player 20% more in the relevant abilities.

Nash- I think the abilities matter, but not so much that they have a big impact on individual performances. Like I've played friendlies against someone 30x higher than me a while back (lvl 3 vs 58). The other guys players were not 15x as fast, they are not even 2x faster. But he took control of the game and won like 5-0. Very generally, I think the engine work as everything being equal as a starting point, formation, ability and what not aside. Then tactics, ability and a random factor affects the individual situations -- but not to a dominating extent so to speak. Like, if a striker on a lvl 58 team has the ability 350 in shooting and my goalie has 40 in reflexes -- the result is not that the striker would score 99 goals in 100 situations as opposed to 10 in 100 compared to strikers at the same lvl as the goalie or whatever. The result seem to be more like that the better striker maybe scores 20 in 100 in stead of 10 in 100.

You know (I think) my opinion about individual skills (that is not important for the performance of player).
Here is a player from a team of my league (RINOKEROS).
This team is a strong one (all 7* players).
Malezas has F-K ability and he 's taking those shots.
As you can see, he has high defensive and M&P skills but low attacking skills.
But he has talent to that.
Also you can observe that he has much more success in League games (where oppo players have less quality) than in CH.L. or the Cup (where oppo have the same quality).
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here again, comparing his skills with ahonother player 5*, who is in top5 scorers of the league
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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Al Svanberg

My best guess is that the Dribbler and PM ability always are in effect. Like giving each player 20% more in the relevant abilities.

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We'll never know that...

But I think, you're right. I bought a MC with dribbler (wanted to try) last season, who played only as sub. He made 23 games. This season, one of the first games, the main MC suffered an injury at 3', the dribbler took his chance, scored a goal, made two assists and was rated 9,5 (but no MoM, because of Costa :p). Since this day, dribbler played every game as main, and his ratings 7-9. Sometimes, you see him at simulation turning 360 degrees, kick the ball wide and run, left-right-left-right and go. I can't say, it's the ability, because I often looked at my dribbler, because I tried to see some differences to the team. Maybe, all other do it also, but I don't see it like that amount.

My SA rating, based on my own experiences (and of my best friends/wife).

1. FK
2. Shadows Striker, Areal Defender
3. Playmaker, One on One Striker
4. Defensive Wall
5. One on One Stopper
6. CK
7. Penalty Kicker, Penalty Stopper

Dribbler, I haven't that much experiences (currently I would rate him like playmaker)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LeManiaque

Similarly I have a DC/ DMC who I've never seen display the icon when in his usual DC spot

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I missed a screenshot, but I officially did see my DC/DMC pop up the PM icon from the DC position in league today.

wow, 2 sp popup at the same time :)

that PM popup from dc+dmc+mc and SS from mr+amr+st

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Which positions were they playing in at that match, ibangali?

I have seen Shadow Striker + corner specialist a few times, from SS in MR position

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Which positions were they playing in at that match, ibangali?

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pm sp=> my dc+dmc+mc and he was playing as dmc with blue arrow
ss sp => mr+amr+st and he was playing as amr with red

dmc pass the ball to amr and amr shoot for goal
3-1-3-2-1 formation

my reserves played today and oppo C-K specialist gave 3 assists from the corner, to the same player (copy paste)
* oppo didn't watch the game, whatever I tried failed :(
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oppo C-K specialist - crossing is his lowest attack skill :eek:
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Right, no point to watching the game anymore. This season I'm hardly winning (1:0 or 2:1 or 3:2 etc) with unwatch manager team :(
My areal defender can't save the ck against unwatch manager game.

At my league, I have an opponent, who has an really good assister - CK.
I don't know, how many assist from CK, but, if you look at his stats, non - for me - important skill to be a (good) CK is high.
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My PM and CK have way more skill at crossing, creativity,... but both together haven't 9 assists this season.

Just a thought: what's, if the SA ignores stats? Maybe that's the reason, why defenders can be good FK, CK, PK,... (kayattributes aren't shooting, finishing).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos

oppo C-K specialist - crossing is his lowest attack skill :eek:

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One more proof adding to the thought that single individual attributes play no role in the game.
The whole average of each category (defense-attack) seems to matter.

Most of CK specialists I have had, gave many assists during the season, 90% of them coming from corners.
But all of them have the SA already assigned on them (either bought from recommendations or nordgens with SA)

So at it seems a bit random factor if he is a good assister or not I would never spend greens in order to assign CK SA to a player.

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Originally Posted by Cloverfield

So at it seems a bit random factor if he is a good assister or not I would never spend greens in order to assign CK SA to a player.

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Both of my teams doesn't have an player with ck sa,in the first matches of the season I was a bit worried that my teams were scoring very few goals from ck's but the last days they are scoring a lot from ck,1-2 goals/dayhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b5af38a7f1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...82e626147f.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...70461720dc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fe1dcae06f.jpg


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I'm not 100% sure but over 75%, my understanding about ck and fk skills are:

for ck: passing + crossing + creativity, 3 of these attributes points differ should not be way high (if ck sa assign by you), like passing 100, crossing 65, creativity 50, these points differ may be 20-30, like passing 100, crossing 80, creativity 75, still I'm working to see but need more time but if anyone also working with ck please try those three attributes and share your thought :)
also I'm not sure ck need finishing or not, my mc (mc+ml+dml) not doing good with assigned ck sa but since I work his those 3 attributes he doing little good but not great, his finishing points not that great, still I'm trying add more finishing points to see that he can do more better or not.

for fk: shooting + finishing + creativity, same in here, each attributes points differ should not be way too high (if fk sa assign by you).

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playing in a CH.L. +1 LV, the target is to take the third place of my group so to continue in Super League.
So today I had to loose my game
Set the weak players and 4 normal.
Oppo had 3 F-K with Mohamed as choice (with sa and 171 quality)
The first was a crossing (fail)
The 2nd, hit the defensive wall (of my player Kakavos, with 128q - Dunga wasn't in the game at that moment, I made him a sub)
The third saved by Paliouras, my old GK with 101q

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nice you didnt have a troll match so the result was what you expected

ok, this is happening is almost all my games.
Messi is a corner specialist.
I can see his sa sign 4-5 times in every game so today I decided to keep some pics from a cup game.
But almost none of his C-K finds a team mate.
wtf is the "special" about it ?

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one :p
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two :rolleyes:
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three :(
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four :mad:
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I always thought the playmaker SA had something to do with assists. But apparently no...

I saw a few times the Playmaker icon showing on the screen a bit before before a goal. (Sorry no screenshots) I
I couldn't see well if the player with the SA did the assist, but I think he didn't, since he was not credited for it in the match report.

So it makes me think this SA must have other powers.

@ LarryC
Take a look at this thread - I made a small experiment about PM/CK a long time ago. Maybe it will help a bit.