Regarding the token loss when bidding on a player.

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01-14-2013
Gurr

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Regarding the token loss when bidding on a player.

Hello!

I was just bidding on a player worth around 1-1.5M and approx 5-15tokens. Unfortunately I had another maniac like me bidding on that player. It ended on like 130tokens and a price of 13m or something.

Here is the proof:
Attachment 872

I know that this is not a normal case, but I cant by see the fact that I lost ALOT of tokens on this, worth probably around 130 swedish crowns. I know it was my own choice to keep bidding. But I still see NO POINT in all that we loose our tokens just by bidding, even if we do not win. Then we might aswell loose our money...? :mad:

I know you're a company and you need to make profit to survive, but you need to think about your customers aswell. I know that I wont buy new tokens atleast for 2-3months. But I really think that this takes the joy out of the game, losing hard earned tokens and not even getting a player. First time I tried to buy a player I had saved 32-33 tokens for almost 1 month just to buy a good player and guess what, I lost him. After that I've purchased tokens 3 times 80 tokens which is 240 tokens, and I lost pretty much 130-140 tokens just on this. It's really riddicilous.

I think you should fix so a player(customer) doesn't lose his tokens after bidding on a player.

Regards
01-15-2013
PricopGeorgeCătălin

Gurr, it will be unfair for the rest of players (your idea), for what you pay you are rewarded, it's fair also is your job what are you doing with tokens, nobody forced you to go so far.
01-15-2013
dv8r

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurr

Hello!

I was just bidding on a player worth around 1-1.5M and approx 5-15tokens. Unfortunately I had another maniac like me bidding on that player. It ended on like 130tokens and a price of 13m or something.

Here is the proof:
Attachment 872

I know that this is not a normal case, but I cant by see the fact that I lost ALOT of tokens on this, worth probably around 130 swedish crowns. I know it was my own choice to keep bidding. But I still see NO POINT in all that we loose our tokens just by bidding, even if we do not win. Then we might aswell loose our money...? :mad:

I know you're a company and you need to make profit to survive, but you need to think about your customers aswell. I know that I wont buy new tokens atleast for 2-3months. But I really think that this takes the joy out of the game, losing hard earned tokens and not even getting a player. First time I tried to buy a player I had saved 32-33 tokens for almost 1 month just to buy a good player and guess what, I lost him. After that I've purchased tokens 3 times 80 tokens which is 240 tokens, and I lost pretty much 130-140 tokens just on this. It's really riddicilous.

I think you should fix so a player(customer) doesn't lose his tokens after bidding on a player.

Regards

If people got back their tokens after bidding, they can bid unlimited tokens on a player knowing they'll get their tokens back at the end if they lose and the bidding will go on forever. Bad idea.
01-15-2013
Gurr

Quote:

Originally Posted by PricopGeorgeCătălin

Gurr, it will be unfair for the rest of players (your idea), for what you pay you are rewarded, it's fair also is your job what are you doing with tokens, nobody forced you to go so far.

How can it be unfair for the rest of the players? They will get it back if they lose a bid, the same way they get the money back if they lose a bid.
And if you win a bid you lose tokens + money. I see NO POINT at all except for your profit when it comes to losing tokens.

I know nobody forced me to go so far, and I wrote that aswell in my topic : "I know it was my own choice to keep bidding."

You should really try to read my whole topic before replying. I see no sense in your reply post at all, you might try to explain again.
01-15-2013
Gurr

Quote:

Originally Posted by dv8r

If people got back their tokens after bidding, they can bid unlimited tokens on a player knowing they'll get their tokens back at the end if they lose and the bidding will go on forever. Bad idea.

Yeah this might be true, but in that case the one with the most tokens/cash will win. Not everyone will buy 5000 tokens just to be able to bid for players, and you will still loose your tokens when you win. So if a bid goes on to 1000 tokens and you finally win it, you will lose 1000 tokens(the one who lost wont loose it tho). So therefore I dont think people will go on bidding forever.

I dont know if you missunderstood me but I dont mean that the player that wins the bid will get the money/tokens back ofcourse. Only the ones that lose it.
01-15-2013
Potemy

Funny, I think both Pricop and dv8r understand you perfectly as this topic has come up many times before, and I see plenty of sense in both their replies. Personally, I'm fine with the current system, I'm operating on a set budget of 35 tokens a season from my sponsor. :)
01-15-2013
Gurr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potemy

Funny, I think both Pricop and dv8r understand you perfectly as this topic has come up many times before, and I see plenty of sense in both their replies. Personally, I'm fine with the current system, I'm operating on a set budget of 35 tokens a season from my sponsor. :)

Maybe, then I must have misunderstood them. However, I didn't see Pricops point in that post. Felt too short and not really explaining, just stating that it would be unfair somehow. I would be glad if he could explain in more detail or something.
01-15-2013
PricopGeorgeCătălin

I was talking about this, maybe I was wrong and I didn't understand you.

I think you should fix so a player(customer) doesn't lose his tokens after bidding on a player.

What do you mean by customer, simple user or somebody who paid for tokens?
01-15-2013
Gurr

Quote:

Originally Posted by PricopGeorgeCătălin

I was talking about this, maybe I was wrong and I didn't understand you.

I think you should fix so a player(customer) doesn't lose his tokens after bidding on a player.

What do you mean by customer, simple user or somebody who paid for tokens?

I mean everyone playing the game. Everyone is your customers wether or not they pay for tokens bro you should know that.
01-15-2013
PricopGeorgeCătălin

Yes but even like that, why players should pay for tokens? I mean Nordeus will lose a lot of moneys in this way, to host 8M account is not something cheap.

Also, all teams will be 5 stars plus. Anyway developers created "Negotions" where you don't lose tokens or moneys.
01-15-2013
Anamnesis

Ok. But in the instance of those who may just love the game and may not have access to a credit card, how do we keep our team moving up if up is only accessible with better ranked players? Is it then that we are being forced to remain lowly until such time as we access a credit card? Now THAT removes ALL the enjoyment of the game! It means all the tactics and formations mean absolutely nothing! Maybe ou could reward the bidder by giving back a fraction of the number of coins bid. Or take a fraction of the money accrued playing and allow the bidder to remain with a portion of the coins bid! In real life auctions you don't lose your ability to bid on something else if you lose an auction. It would be nice to see some true real life management action.
01-15-2013
Gurr

Quote:

Originally Posted by PricopGeorgeCătălin

Yes but even like that, why players should pay for tokens? I mean Nordeus will lose a lot of moneys in this way, to host 8M account is not something cheap.

Also, all teams will be 5 stars plus. Anyway developers created "Negotions" where you don't lose tokens or moneys.

How can they lose money? This project will probably end up like Xperteleven.com when the company got too greedy.

People WILL pay for tokens. For example, I just lost 150 tokens(15dollar or something like that) for nothing. You think I will buy a new pack of tokens? Not really, I won't. Atleast not untill like 2 or 3 more seasons has passed. If you buy 150 tokens, and you dont lose them after bidding on players, you can buy few players and not feel like you lost it for nothing, even if you loose a player after 10 rounds of bids and not 100. Ofcourse I know it's not normal to bid 120+ tokens for a player, but I'm just making a point.

This will ofcourse lead to more people having more tokens and thus the biddings on players for tokens would rise.
For example, today lets say it's normal to pay 5-15tokens for a decent players on managerlevel 3(my level, 3rd season) and like 1.5m. If customers that doesn't win a player on auction doesnt loose their tokens, they will dare to bid more. So it might end up with a situation where players instead pay like 25-35 tokens for a decent player. The ONE THAT WINS, still loses his tokens. HE EVEN LOSES MORE TOKENS THAN BEFORE. So the company wouldnt lose money. Infact, I believe they would earn money. More people would feel good with bidding and not being scared. More people would maybe be secure with buying tokens and not being afraid of spending real life money on nothing.

I think you should put this suggestion up to your bosses, I can help them it looks like. They should've studdied administration and business/economy at the University it seems.

I have a hard time seeing how they would lose money, I understand the point you're trying to make. "If a player loses 40 tokens on a player - he has to buy more to play the game and buy new players!" but you need to look at things on a long term perspective. Not just today.

Happy, and loyal customers are the best customers you can have. You can't just expect everyone to buy new tokens for ever. In the end everyone will get bored of it and stop buying tokens when they realize that all they have to do for this game to be good at it is to buy tokens. You need another way to satisfy your customers.
01-15-2013
PricopGeorgeCătălin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anamnesis

Ok. But in the instance of those who may just love the game and may not have access to a credit card, how do we keep our team moving up if up is only accessible with better ranked players? Is it then that we are being forced to remain lowly until such time as we access a credit card? Now THAT removes ALL the enjoyment of the game! It means all the tactics and formations mean absolutely nothing! Maybe ou could reward the bidder by giving back a fraction of the number of coins bid. Or take a fraction of the money accrued playing and allow the bidder to remain with a portion of the coins bid! In real life auctions you don't lose your ability to bid on something else if you lose an auction. It would be nice to see some true real life management action.

You can win competitions without buying tokens, is not something impossible.

In real life auctions you don't lose your ability to bid on something else if you lose an auction.
In real life, you can lose your job if you miss some important transfers.

This is a game, not real life :)
01-15-2013
Anamnesis

In truth you would still be making money, since the person who wins the bid will lose his coins. And if someone pushes the bid the more money you would gather from the transaction. But if a player is in desperate need of say a DMC to spell his/her injured midfielder and loses all their coins attempting to get one AND loses the player as well just because someone else had more....then how does that encourage that player to continue wanting to play? He/she may become disillusioned and stop playing altogether. I've actually played stages where the managers were NEVER there for a game. And one or two of my friends have said this to me as well...they don't feel encouraged to play on when the bidding process is so one-sided. Maybe the loser could have a fraction of his coins returned. That way the game gets a second bite at getting that player to bid again, spreading out the income, instead of forcing players to hold back bidding at all!
01-15-2013
Anamnesis

That answer feels awfully one-sided. Because in real life you DON'T lose your job if another club is better financed than yours! You lose access to your target, but you don't lose your ability to pursue somebody else because you had entered the auction for that specific player! You are able to move on to another target that might serve you in good stead. Even at a lesser quality and cost. What the present system does is that it gives power ONLY to those with unlimited funding AND it hinders those with limited funding from progressing AT ALL!!! How is this fair? In a game OR in real life this sucks AWFULLY!!!! And stinks of unfairness! It Feels like dealing with Manchester United with their CEO on the FA board!!!!! LMAO!!!

I take this "game" quite seriously! And you probably get paid to take it seriously as well....so to some of us it is NOT just a game! I've learned one or two things about the management of the sport via your interface.

What I'm suggesting is continuity- Coins give us access to auctions. Money gives us access to targets. Charge us a fee to bid(Take it from our money balance). And once we enter an auction charge us a percentage of the coins bid if we lose the bidding war. But leave us with the ability to go back in for another try!
Bid above 5 coins and lose the bid= sacrifice 2 coins!
Bid 8 coins and lose= sacrifice 3 coins and have 5 returned(this system could be programmed along specific mathematical guidelines to make it smooth)
Bid under 5 coins and have your 4 coins returned to you to get another shot at acquiring another player.
(realistically the guy with unlimited coins could be made to REALLY pay if there are others also bidding for the same player)
Also a "transfer window" could be implemented to compress the spending into a specific time frame. This might infact maximise your income over a shorter period. Instead of a trickle of real income you might see a tremendous increase in your financial traffic.
I think it's worth a shot. I know I would feel even more attached to the game and others would be encouraged to become more involved!
01-16-2013
Potemy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anamnesis

Ok. But in the instance of those who may just love the game and may not have access to a credit card, how do we keep our team moving up if up is only accessible with better ranked players? Is it then that we are being forced to remain lowly until such time as we access a credit card? Now THAT removes ALL the enjoyment of the game! It means all the tactics and formations mean absolutely nothing! Maybe ou could reward the bidder by giving back a fraction of the number of coins bid. Or take a fraction of the money accrued playing and allow the bidder to remain with a portion of the coins bid! In real life auctions you don't lose your ability to bid on something else if you lose an auction. It would be nice to see some true real life management action.

You mean players like me operating on a tight budget of 35 tokens per season, plus any extras I can get from videos? I'm level 15 now, I've been doing alright, worst finish has been 3rd place in the league, with reasons.
01-16-2013
Potemy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurr

How can they lose money? This project will probably end up like Xperteleven.com when the company got too greedy.

Asking something a little off topic here, what do you think happened to X11? I play on that site, pretty active too, I'm a moderator and translator and everything, and I'm not aware of any such event.
01-16-2013
Potemy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anamnesis

I take this "game" quite seriously! And you probably get paid to take it seriously as well....so to some of us it is NOT just a game! I've learned one or two things about the management of the sport via your interface.

What I'm suggesting is continuity- Coins give us access to auctions. Money gives us access to targets. Charge us a fee to bid(Take it from our money balance). And once we enter an auction charge us a percentage of the coins bid if we lose the bidding war. But leave us with the ability to go back in for another try!
Bid above 5 coins and lose the bid= sacrifice 2 coins!
Bid 8 coins and lose= sacrifice 3 coins and have 5 returned(this system could be programmed along specific mathematical guidelines to make it smooth)
Bid under 5 coins and have your 4 coins returned to you to get another shot at acquiring another player.
(realistically the guy with unlimited coins could be made to REALLY pay if there are others also bidding for the same player)
Also a "transfer window" could be implemented to compress the spending into a specific time frame. This might infact maximise your income over a shorter period. Instead of a trickle of real income you might see a tremendous increase in your financial traffic.
I think it's worth a shot. I know I would feel even more attached to the game and others would be encouraged to become more involved!

I disagree with the transfer window part because that would make it even harder for us with few tokens. At the moment, some players are waiting until after the initial rush of activity on the first few days so that they can get players for less tokens.

Also, not sure where I stand on the issue of returning tokens, because those of us who don't buy tokens are still working on a lower budget. I'd still only go a few rounds on a player, and I think it would also encourage managers to spray bids on random players on auctions to see whether they can get players for 1 token which would also make it harder for those of us with less tokens.
01-16-2013
GabeTC

Why don't you guys take the game as is?
Because of some stupid bidders that have too much EGO to lose a bid and don't stop until they spend 120 tokens - you all want to change the game. Take the energy you use in writhing these stupid comments and USE your brains and buy 2 Scout Players and one on the market with the other 20 tokens. On the scout list you have no competition and you know what you pay and what you get.
This game can be improved but is never going to improve due to "your" comments and suggestions.
Some of you wander why no one is reading your suggestions... well - that's why - because you keep requesting stupid things.
01-16-2013
Lexusboy

My idea would be to bid as you do to say 15 tokens limit and then say how many further tokens you would pay for a player (this would need to be programmed into the game)each player not knowing what the other would bid.
Who ever bids the most wins so you can not lose more than the 15 tokens should you lose.
The game benifits from the people who can offered the extra tokens while the most a losing bidder loses would be the 15 tokens.
Players hopefully could still win by placing the odd token.
01-16-2013
Gurr

Quote:

Originally Posted by GabeTC

Why don't you guys take the game as is?
Because of some stupid bidders that have too much EGO to lose a bid and don't stop until they spend 120 tokens - you all want to change the game. Take the energy you use in writhing these stupid comments and USE your brains and buy 2 Scout Players and one on the market with the other 20 tokens. On the scout list you have no competition and you know what you pay and what you get.
This game can be improved but is never going to improve due to "your" comments and suggestions.
Some of you wander why no one is reading your suggestions... well - that's why - because you keep requesting stupid things.

Yeah it was my ego and my own fault, I know that. But this is the forum part called: SUGGESTIONS incase you've missed that son. I put my suggestion here, and incase you have no good comments on why it would be a bad suggestion and just come here and call me stupid, no brain etc. and dont even try to argue in anyway - then you can get the **** out of my thread retard.
01-17-2013
SimaZhao

TS, Why don't u think about the consequences if everyone who lost a bid gets back their token.

For example, Since if i lose i will get back my token, I JUST BID AND BID for fun EVEN if i DONT really need that players. Make the LAST BIDDER/Buyer suffer from unwanted bidder.

Price of that "cheap" and "unknown" players become superbly expensive and cost lots of token for the buyer.

Every players will DEFINITELY goes to ALOT of KNOCKOUT ROunds.

Sooner or later, all left the game because of that.
01-17-2013
Gurr

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimaZhao

TS, Why don't u think about the consequences if everyone who lost a bid gets back their token.

For example, Since if i lose i will get back my token, I JUST BID AND BID for fun EVEN if i DONT really need that players. Make the LAST BIDDER/Buyer suffer from unwanted bidder.

Price of that "cheap" and "unknown" players become superbly expensive and cost lots of token for the buyer.

Every players will DEFINITELY goes to ALOT of KNOCKOUT ROunds.

Sooner or later, all left the game because of that.

Read ALL my posts, I explained there. This will not happen.

I guess the "moderators" won't answer anymore because they've got no good answers and probably know they're wrong. Hopefully someone more important at Nordeus will check this out.
01-21-2013
mlulurgas

I think that the best way is to reward losing bidders with an amount of token spent in the auction; for example, no token refund until 5th knockout, then 1 token till 7th knockout, 2 till 9th knockout, and so on, just to don't leave poor players without tokens.
01-22-2013
Gurr

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlulurgas

I think that the best way is to reward losing bidders with an amount of token spent in the auction; for example, no token refund until 5th knockout, then 1 token till 7th knockout, 2 till 9th knockout, and so on, just to don't leave poor players without tokens.

Yes, this is also a good idea. But it seems that the "administrators" left this thread to die because they cannot come with any good arguments. I've however contacted the Nordeus Support team where they're a bit more proffesional and actually discuss/answer things.

I guess the admins here is not emplyees of Nordeus but just some random guys that are active on forums and therefore got the admin post.
01-23-2013
Potemy

I'm not sure what the difference is between admins and mods on the forum, but they have no say in the implementation of all these ideas, only the developers can do that. They don't have to do anything in this thread, but you should know that they are always looking at these ideas and working on implementing what they think is good, though of course it's understood that T11 is a business to them and they can't be giving too much away.