Cup changes

[Moi]

Hi Managers,

Starting from the next Top Eleven season (so, the 3rd of April) generation of Cup competition will be different. Until now, our engine was grouping teams by quality in order to have a fair competition, taking into account the average quality of the whole squad (all signed players).

Some users were taking advantage of this, by not signing the good players until the competition schedule had been generated, or having a lot of low quality signed players.

Now, this average quality will be calculated only taking into account the 14 best players of each team, even if they are not signed. This should result in more fair Cup competitions.

[El Pistolero]

It's what I was doing anyway, first 14.

The reason I started manipulation was because teams 3 divisions above started manipulating the draws so it's one of those cant beat them join them.
I only manipulated to get fairer draws, equal quality, maybe a division above or below but I never manipulated to the point where I was facing 2 star teams.

Hopefully this new update will try to bring balance to the draw and match CL draw quality.

[Gert Funck]

I thought this was already implemented ?!

[nikolgiorgos]

I thought this was already implemented ?!

yea, me too.
I don't think players out of contract don't count for the top 14.
Some mistake is here.
Anyway, Moi or some other dev, can you answer this ?
If I have 8 players 6* and 6 players 1* and from those 8 6* players, 5 are out of contract, the game will give me 5 players, *3 oldies (ready for retirement), ok ?
So, the Cup draw will be by
1) Those 8 6* players and the 6 1* players ? (The Cup draw is happening before the game will give me the oldies)
or
2) By the 8 6* players + the 5 3* oldies (as they have higher Q than the 1* players) + one 1* player ? (The Cup draw is happening after the game will give me the oldies)

* This change is not gonna make any difference because there is no limit in levels so if I 'm gonna be (finishing with a 5-6* team) in a Cup with some managers from 3 lvs above with low q teams and if they decide to be active again, they 'll just buy 8* players (for me) and gonna make a walk in the park.
Even if I drop the quality of my team and with this way I managed to win some Cups, I don't find it fair and I believe that there should be a lv limit - not more than one level above managers.
But I believe that maybe TE has this system just for an extra challenge for the managers so I swim with the flow of the river.

[Moi]

yea, me too.
I don't think players out of contract don't count for the top 14.
Some mistake is here.
Anyway, Moi or some other dev, can you answer this ?
If I have 8 players 6* and 6 players 1* and from those 8 6* players, 5 are out of contract, the game will give me 5 players, *3 oldies (ready for retirement), ok ?
So, the Cup draw will be by
1) Those 8 6* players and the 6 1* players ? (The Cup draw is happening before the game will give me the oldies)
or
2) By the 8 6* players + the 5 3* oldies (as they have higher Q than the 1* players) + one 1* player ? (The Cup draw is happening after the game will give me the oldies)

* This change is not gonna make any difference because there is no limit in levels so if I 'm gonna be (finishing with a 5-6* team) in a Cup with some managers from 3 lvs above with low q teams and if they decide to be active again, they 'll just buy 8* players (for me) and gonna make a walk in the park.
Even if I drop the quality of my team and with this way I managed to win some Cups, I don't find it fair and I believe that there should be a lv limit - not more than one level above managers.
But I believe that maybe TE has this system just for an extra challenge for the managers so I swim with the flow of the river.

Hi niko,

Right now players out of contract were not taken into account for the Cup average quality calculation, this will change now.

Regarding the scenarios your presented, I'd say the 2nd is the correct answer, but I am not totally sure. I'll have to get back to you about this specific case.

About the teamlevel differences in competitions, again the issue is the same: teams are not unlimited in every server, for levels where there are not many teams, we have to make the cut somewhere, and we're always going to need 128 teams for every Cup. But, as you know, we're always trying to improve the game as much as possible, so expect improvements in competition generation in the upcoming seasons

[gizzmo]

This change is to me just ridiculous. What are the players going to do ? Keep 6-7 stars and do the same trick. The advantage will go to managers with loads of tokens. And the vast majority of people from this forum will face even more difficult draws with teams from 3-4 higher levels. Why not a completely random draw ? This would be the only FAIR competition. But I already know the answer to this question... Please do not call your tricks "fair". You are just forcing people to spend tokens...

[Tactician]

Moi, I think that posts that contain ways of cheating in this game should be deleted, and posting of such things should no longer be allowed on the forum and elsewhere where Nordeus have some control. Some users have gone as far as deliberately keeping 3-4 1 star players in their squad for many seasons in order to manipulate the draw. While some users may have found ways to cheat in this game by themselves, it is likely that most of them found about those on social websites like the forum here, and also on some other websites that show how to cheat in this game. In my opinion, this 14 players' rule may reduce the amount or effect of cheating. Some users will still be able to cheat this system, especially those that keep 3-4 1 star players in their squad. Take into consideration that some users won't hesitate to sell higher quality players that fall in first 14 in order for the 1 star players to contribute. There should be a way to detect such things, like detecting the presence of players that fall in the lower outliers relative to the average quality of say the best 5-6 players in a team or the average quality of the starting line-up for all matches in the previous season.

This is just a virtual game, but some users are putting a lot of effort, time and money in this game. Cheating should not be encouraged. Also, take into consideration that there are many other ways to cheat in this game. For instance, having several, excessive parallel accounts for additional supporter bonus, for earning tokens via the referrals' system and for sending valuable gifts to a main account. Something must be done for these also; for instance, I propose to remove that additional supporters' bonus thing as the new version of the game already provides an additional way of boosting possession. For the cases of hacks, definitely serious action should be taken against those.

As for how the Cup draw is, that is a mixture of teams from different levels, I have no complaints as long as the difference in level is at max. 2 for most of the teams (hence, batches should consist at most a mixture of 2-3 levels, and not more). Also, I think that say at least once in a season for every 3-4 seasons, a team should be among the top levels, because as it is now, it seems that teams of serious, non-cheating users always fall among the lower or middle levels of the Cup batch every season.

Briefly, I have no complaints, even if I have to face a team significantly stronger than mine or a team from 1-2 levels above in the Cup, as long as the manager of this team has used honest ways. If a user uses his honestly earned money to boost the quality of his team, he deserves to have an advantage. It is the cheaters that cause problems when they are put together with serious, honest users in the same competitions. I understand that most managers want to win, and that some of them cannot afford to spend money on this game or cannot meet the quality requirements every season, but, such users should also consider what negative effects they are having on other users if they cheat, especially on the honest ones.

[Moi]

Moi, I think that posts that contain ways of cheating in this game should be deleted, and posting of such things should no longer be allowed on the forum and elsewhere where Nordeus have some control. Some users have gone as far as deliberately keeping 3-4 1 star players in their squad for many seasons in order to manipulate the draw. While some users may have found ways to cheat in this game by themselves, it is likely that most of them found about those on social websites like the forum here, and also on some other websites that show how to cheat in this game. In my opinion, this 14 players' rule may reduce the amount or effect of cheating. Some users will still be able to cheat this system, especially those that keep 3-4 1 star players in their squad. Take into consideration that some users won't hesitate to sell higher quality players that fall in first 14 in order for the 1 star players to contribute. There should be a way to detect such things, like detecting the presence of players that fall in the lower outliers relative to the average quality of say the best 5-6 players in a team or the average quality of the starting line-up for all matches in the previous season.

This is just a virtual game, but some users are putting a lot of effort, time and money in this game. Cheating should not be encouraged. Also, take into consideration that there are many other ways to cheat in this game. For instance, having several, excessive parallel accounts for additional supporter bonus, for earning tokens via the referrals' system and for sending valuable gifts to a main account. Something must be done for these also; for instance I propose to remove that additional supporters' bonus thing as the new version of the game already provides an additional way of boosting possession. For the cases of hacks, definitely serious action should be taken against those.

As for how the Cup draw is, that is a mixture of teams from different levels, I have no complaints as long as the difference in level is at max. 2 for most of the teams (hence, batches should consist at most a mixture of 2-3 levels, and not more). Also, I think that say at least once in a season for every 3-4 seasons, a team should be among the top levels, because as it is now, it seems that teams of serious, non-cheating users always fall among the lower or middle levels of the Cup batch every season.

Briefly, I have no complaints, even if I have to face a team significantly stronger than mine or a team from 1-2 levels above in the Cup, as long as the manager of this team has used honest ways. If a user uses his honestly earned money to boost the quality of his team, he deserves to have an advantage. It is the cheaters that cause problems when they are put together with serious, honest users in the same competitions. I understand that most managers want to win, and that some of them cannot afford to spend money on this game or cannot meet the quality requirements every season, but, such users should also consider what negative effects they are having on other users if they cheat, especially on the honest ones.

Hi Tactician

First of all, you're mixing several things here.

Technically, manually reducing the quality of your whole team by selling players is not cheating. This is taking advantage of the rules, which should be probably called "unfair" or morally wrong, but cheating is another thing. That's why we implemented this change, to minimize the effects of this behaviour. But, again, this is not cheating. Cheating would be hacking the system to illegally get some victories, some extra tokens or any similar stuff.

Of course it's up to any user to sell several players to reduce their global quality, but now this will be tougher. If you do that, it also has some side effects on your team. For example, it's not that easy to sign 8-10 good players before the first Cup match, what if you can't and this makes you lose the round?

Regarding clone accounts controlled by the same user, these are allowed as long as the user does not use any account to support his own teams. If you see that, simply report it from the app (click the question mark at the bottom of the left sidebar) and we will take care of it.

Regarding the Cup draw itself and the different levels between teams, please take into account that we need 128 Cup teams for every Cup competition at the beginning of the season, and from the same server. The system always tries to group teams by quality, but that's not always possible. If for example you have:

- 18 level X teams
- 20 level X-1 teams
- 50 level X-2 teams
- 400 level X-3 teams

The first Cup group would be formed by 18 level X teams, the next 20 level X-1 teams, the 50 X-2 teams and finally 40 X-3 teams. The rest of the X-3 teams would be on another Cup group. Teams in every server are limited and we can't just summon teams that are not there.

Regarding your last paragraph, again, this behaviour is not cheating, although I can understand your frustration about it.

[Tactician]

Hi Tactician

First of all, you're mixing several things here.

Technically, manually reducing the quality of your whole team by selling players is not cheating. This is taking advantage of the rules, which should be probably called "unfair" or morally wrong, but cheating is another thing. That's why we implemented this change, to minimize the effects of this behaviour. But, again, this is not cheating. Cheating would be hacking the system to illegally get some victories, some extra tokens or any similar stuff.

Of course it's up to any user to sell several players to reduce their global quality, but now this will be tougher. If you do that, it also has some side effects on your team. For example, it's not that easy to sign 8-10 good players before the first Cup match, what if you can't and this makes you lose the round?

Regarding clone accounts controlled by the same user, these are allowed as long as the user does not use any account to support his own teams. If you see that, simply report it from the app (click the question mark at the bottom of the left sidebar) and we will take care of it.

Regarding the Cup draw itself and the different levels between teams, please take into account that we need 128 Cup teams for every Cup competition at the beginning of the season, and from the same server. The system always tries to group teams by quality, but that's not always possible. If for example you have:

- 18 level X teams
- 20 level X-1 teams
- 50 level X-2 teams
- 400 level X-3 teams

The first Cup group would be formed by 18 level X teams, the next 20 level X-1 teams, the 50 X-2 teams and finally 40 X-3 teams. The rest of the X-3 teams would be on another Cup group. Teams in every server are limited and we can't just summon teams that are not there.

Regarding your last paragraph, again, this behaviour is not cheating, although I can understand your frustration about it.

Oh... come on Moi.

[Moi]

You know what I mean, Tactician