Mmmhhh... I'll never understand the "logic" of this game.

[kebess]

It seems, just like the rest of us, you have no clue about it, : (

[Cat Harrison]

I will say I have observed in game that attacking mentality with a defensive formation loses possession.

But yeah there's no definate answer, like so much of this game... trial and error.

[kebess]

From what I understand, mentality affects your team's positioning and behaviour towards your opponent right ?

So why is it bad to play "Attacking" with a non offensive formation ? I mean, your team can still assume an attacking behaviour, and positioning, right ?
For example your defenders might defend a bit closer to the midfield line and would even cross that line on occasions, if a pass is less effective (a bit like what my defender did, in the match I described in the OP). Your attackers will basically sit in the opponent's goal and wait for passes, and midfielders would play a bit higher and press towards the AM section.

With a defensive formation, you'll have more defenders obviously, but why should that necessary be bad for an attacking mentality, if things works like described above ? All they'll do is try to press more when they have the ball, by helping the DM section and even the midfield area.

When they don't have the ball, they won't just stand around, and wait for it to come at their feet. They'll naturally resume a defensive position and try to get it back, but as soon as they get it, they'll resume the pressing yet again.
This is how I picture it from your description, so why is it bad to play offensive with a defensive formation and vice versa ?

Sure if you play offensive with an offensive formation, you'll have more players doing the pressing in the opponent's half of the field, but like you said, you'll also be more vulnerable to counter-attacks.
However, with a defensive formation, although your pressing would be less effective, your defense would still remain much stronger, even though you have an attacking mentality, allowing you to block much more counter-attacks. Don't you agree? That is not a "disadvantage" at all. It's just as valid as any other formation.

[HateMeNow]

From what I understand, mentality affects your team's positioning and behaviour towards your opponent right ?

So why is it bad to play "Attacking" with a non offensive formation ? I mean, your team can still assume an attacking behaviour, and positioning, right ?
For example your defenders might defend a bit closer to the midfield line and would even cross that line on occasions, if a pass is less effective (a bit like what my defender did, in the match I described in the OP). Your attackers will basically sit in the opponent's goal and wait for passes, and midfielders would play a bit higher and press towards the AM section.

With a defensive formation, you'll have more defenders obviously, but why should that necessary be bad for an attacking mentality, if things works like described above ? All they'll do is try to press more when they have the ball, by helping the DM section and even the midfield area.

When they don't have the ball, they won't just stand around, and wait for it to come at their feet. They'll naturally resume a defensive position and try to get it back, but as soon as they get it, they'll resume the pressing yet again.
This is how I picture it from your description, so why is it bad to play offensive with a defensive formation and vice versa ?

Sure if you play offensive with an offensive formation, you'll have more players doing the pressing in the opponent's half of the field, but like you said, you'll also be more vulnerable to counter-attacks.
However, with a defensive formation, although your pressing would be less effective, your defense would still remain much stronger, even though you have an attacking mentality, allowing you to block much more counter-attacks. Don't you agree? That is not a "disadvantage" at all. It's just as valid as any other formation.

Yes, but it is a contraddiction. It's like asking you to make a cake with just one egg. Surely, you can pull out something but that will never even get close to a real cake after all. Same goes for having a defensive formation and using an offensive mentality: in real soccer, your players would be confused, while in T11, it's the engine which gets confused.

Basically, your module would be a lot more proficient playing defensive/counter.

[kebess]

Again, I don't see why. All you're doing is pressing harder when you have the ball, and avoiding more effectively counter attacks when you lose it.

IRL, it wouldn't be confusing at all since DMs are natural at playing on the midfield section as well (they "always" have the "red arrow", so to speak). A DM in real life is just as good as a Midfielder most of the time.

And in real life, when a team changes mentality they almost never change their formation. They can easily go on an attacking strike for 20 min, press like mad, and then resume a more normal or defensive mentality, if it was productive. So no, it just doesn't work that way in real life, that's for sure.

Basically, I think we'll have to agree to disagree, : )

[HateMeNow]

Again, I don't see why. All you're doing is pressing harder when you have the ball, and avoiding more effectively counter attacks when you lose it.

IRL, it wouldn't be confusing at all since DMs are natural at playing on the midfield section as well (they "always" have the "red arrow", so to speak). A DM in real life is just as good as a Midfielder most of the time.

And in real life, when a team changes mentality they almost never change their formation. They can easily go on an attacking strike for 20 min, press like mad, and then resume a more normal or defensive mentality, if it was productive. So no, it just doesn't work that way in real life, that's for sure.

Basically, I think we'll have to agree to disagree, : )

In real life, what changes basing on the mentality of the team is the zone where you are used to play and press the most. An offensive team like ie Barcelona has as main territory of play the part of the field going from half pitch to near the opponent's area. It's there that they do press, circulate the ball, and basically play the game. Now as matter of facts, how many offensive players has Barcelona out and how many defensive ones? It's actually 3-4-2-1, 3-1-5-1, or 3-6-1. If they'd actually use a 3-3 system, even with the DMs supporting the attackers they wouldn't have enough people to make the game in that zone.

Accordingly, using an offensive mentality in T11 with a defensive formation is using that formation's power halved. Your DMC may have a red arrow, but this helps making them in the offensive just a MC MR ML. There still lack AMs to support between the lines which could usually be either AMR/AML/AMC or MR/ML on red arrows. As much as a red arrow can help, it won't ever amount to a player covering the red arrowed role + a further one ahead.

[kebess]

In real life, what changes basing on the mentality of the team is the zone where you are used to play and press the most. An offensive team like ie Barcelona has as main territory of play the part of the field going from half pitch to near the opponent's area. It's there that they do press, circulate the ball, and basically play the game. Now as matter of facts, how many offensive players has Barcelona out and how many defensive ones? It's actually 3-4-2-1, 3-1-5-1, or 3-6-1. If they'd actually use a 3-3 system, even with the DMs supporting the attackers they wouldn't have enough people to make the game in that zone.

Why? Of course they'd have enough people to make the game in that zone. In a real match, do you see 6 players standing on a straight line like this ? :

------x

-x-x-x-x-x-x

----x-x-x--

Of course not. You have at least 3, 4 players from that midfield line playing on the DM/AM area.
A 3-6-1, is always really some 3-2-2-2-1, or 3-1-3-2-1, or 3-3-2-1-1, etc... Those DMs/AMs have either red or blue arrows to help make the game on the midfield/AM area of the pitch.

You'll never have 6 "real" MCs, and whenever they'll lose the ball you'll see the DMs running back to defend the lower midfield zone, that's why they are called "Defending Midfielders". That's how it works usually -- you'll never see 6, or even 5, true MCs.

[khris]

As I ever and ever and forever say here,,,, the control of midfield is veeeeery important. So, your team and his team, really was a 50%-50% posibilities... and,,, usually when I put hard attacking mentality I loose posesion ball... but in your case, is something of good luck, and as I said, if you see your midfield, and his midfield... you can see a big difference, and for me this is the key.
at now I am discovering that I can win a 4-4-2 (usually complicated for me....-.-'' ) if I put blue arrow to all the MC's... cos I've more control in the match...
so, you know what I think (^-^)

[Cat Harrison]

This is an interesting discussion, I like reading different ideas on how the heck this game works! Thanks ya'll for making me think a bit more about the orders mechanisms.

[TimYoung]

I agree with what you have said based on no one really knows unless he is a dev of Nord. But similarly, you are claiming there are too many troll results and blaming ‘troll engine’ when it could just be factors in the engine that you dont know about. A point of playing this game...well at least for me is to test things out to find out these what kinda factors affect what.

I got a feeling that you tested a lot of things out, cant see a pattern and blame it on troll engine. Instead of just giving up why not try to see if you can find the patterns? lsnt that part of enjoyment of the game? Maybe you are right. Maybe not. Unless your the dev and can say you are completely right, I dont see why you should shoot down people who are trying to speculate how the engine works and tell anyone who would listen that there is no point since it is all random.