The next time you get trolled by the game, think of Porto V Bayern

[HoofDaddy]

Stats and outcome are similar. Yes you can dominate possession and still lose by 2 goals! Especially when the ref is helping you.

[PricopGeorgeCătălin]

Well you are right but only half. Football is always full of surprises and everything can happen but let's take Bayern.

CUP - Doing just fine so far!
Champions League - Only 1 big surprise.
League - Doing perfectly just 2 surprises thanks to Pep experiments.

So in 40 games they got 2,3 big surprises and results like Porto - Bayern for them are once at few seasons not so often like in Top Eleven.

Nobody is complaing just because of one bad result, the point it and we have to admit it, there are to many bad results per season in Top Eleven, ofcourse not for everyone.

[David Grizzle]

I still say the point is valid. This game (at least in my limited experience, even though all of it is with a big talent edge) doesn't produce many troll results if the talent gap is 1* or better. Which Bayern over Porto fits that bill (even though Bayern were missing big players, they had great players taking their place).

I am in season 4. During that time I have played over 80 league games. Out of which maybe 2-3 times I have lost to lesser sides with 2 dubious draws. That is a 95% success rate with the kind of advantage Bayern has over the Bundesliga.

In the CL I have not lost a single game except for the 2 finals in 2 full campaigns and a 3rd group stage. I had a draw in game day 5 this year but it was my fault for not changing my lineup back to normal or attending the game and still controlled the possession and shots on the road. The 2 finals were against much more even opposition. One was about .5 points below me and eeked out an extra time win. The other was 1 point better than me and barely won while I won possession and threatened all game.

The first 2 years of the cup I had a serious advantage in talent. I took over after the 1st round year one (lucky my team survived). Then I slowly but massively improved my team. I slipped through round 2 barely but by the playoff round it was unfair and I ran everyone over until a very tough final saw me score 2 in extra time. Year 2 I had sold off all but 14 players at the end of the season, kept maybe 8 good players and the rest scrubs. As soon as the draw was done I bought up all the most expensive Nordgens on the market (most of whom still make up my core) and I was 1-2* above the rest of the cup and cruised to victory.

But since then I have played the cup straight and have not made it out of the round of 32. Both eliminations came to better teams and could have gone the other way but didn't.




Now after all that I am willing to admit that luck could be on my side. I may end up seeing real troll results on a wider scale. But to date I can hardly argue with talent vs results.

The real argument in my opinion is with the player ratings. Particularly at CM/CDM/GK and with the skills of the GK's being the same as outfield players making it impossible to figure out what to train for your keeper. What on earth does finishing, shooting, crossing, etc have to do with playing GK?

How hard would it be to change the keeper ratings basing them on clean sheets, save %, goals allowed, and difficulty of saves? Or change offense (just for keeper) for a GK set including diving, reactions, composure, goal kicks, and ball playing?

Also can anyone tell me if the height of a keeper matters to the sim? It sure does in reality. Part of what makes Courtois so great is that he is not just tall but long. He makes difficult saves look much easier than a 6'0" keeper who likely gets beat.

[HoofDaddy]

Every goal kick takes crossing and passing stats into account. I had a keeper who's defensive rating was 4 star but his offense was 2 star for the longest time. It wasn't until I raised his offense to 3 star that I saw his rating improve from 5-6 to 6-8.

I personally won't take a keeper that's shorter than me (194cm) but I don't think that it plays too much into the overall calculations unless if the average height is calculated per team and the winner is assigned a possession bonus or something.

But back to that game, I was appalled at the refereeing, so biased lol!

[newbie1001]

If Porto had played with 10 men for 60 minutes, with 3 or 4 of them out of position. Played their worst players and only turned up with 12 men to start with, you may have had a point to make.

[Buffs Mad]

Its much better to keep real football and t11 apart - there is no comparison to make and why should there be. There are so many other variables in football that t11 can't begin to simulate other than a blanket chance variation.

The idea that those 3/4/5/6* players in most t11 teams come close to Bayern, Real or other top team players doesn't hold water - the chance of error from most t11 players must be significant.

We must also consider totals when talking frequency. 1 month in t11 is 1 year in real life. tll has already delivered around 40 years of football for many millions of teams. Think how this volume of matches compares to real life,

I'd love to see defensive stats in the game but their relevance would be far more limited than the attacking ones. We already see comments like my GK made 3 saves conceded none but got a 6 while the other conceded 2 saved twice and rated 8. Never any consideration of 'good or bad outcomes' or 'below expectations'. When a player scores there is only 1 outcome. When a GK saves there are several, some good some bad. Is the number of goals conceded by a team really as indicative of a GK capability as goals scored are to outfield players? Would GKs be prevented from having goals scored stats or would strikers need to carry space for a Saves stat?

The player attributes will be heavily dependent on position/role. As we know intuitively players will be more likely to take defensive actions the closer their role is to your goal or the more central they are. You could consider that a Defenders actions are 80% def, DMs 65, MCs 50, AMs 65, STs 80 (numbers are randomly chosen for effect). To accomodate GKs in my plucked out the air sequence the def chance would need to be around 90% or more. Devs have already said that Attacking Skills are almost useless for GKs as GKs but give them FK duties, as many do, and they might surprise you. Also don't get hung up on the attribute labels, use your head and decide what they could be used for - after all they are just numbers called upon by the code for comparison. Its not a huge stretch to think that Heading could just be an Aerial skill and equate to GK catching. Passing - ball distribution from foot, crossing as thrown from hand etc (but its all more detail than you actually need) If the devs suddenly introduced throw-ins do we need another attribute or can't the code just say if its a trow-in event use player_attribute_crossing or passing?

But given everything I've said above I'm going to throw it all away and say Rogerio Ceni >.<

[Celtic]

You are kidding me.

The only way you can compare these situations is not knowing FC Porto.

You are out of touch if you think Bayern is like a 7/8/9* star team and Porto a 4/5/6* star one. If such comparison was possible they'd be 1 star apart.

Porto is not owned by millionaires but it's still one of the best football teams in the world. They've been 2x European Champions.

Porto starting XI was far better with international players like Danilo, Alexsandro, Herrera, Brahimi, Quaresma, Jackson...

Bayern missed Robben, Ribéry, Schweinsteiger, Alaba... Which means they suddenly became in disadvantage to Porto with mediocre players like Dante, Rode, Bernat or Xabi.

[Celtic]

If Porto had played with 10 men for 60 minutes, with 3 or 4 of them out of position. Played their worst players and only turned up with 12 men to start with, you may have had a point to make.

Ditto.

[Leonardo Desiderá Raposo]

It was a QF of Champions League... You will never be trolled in this fase... You can manager a better team, bur there's always a possibility of loosing.
On the other hand, I wish the support could check my actual season... I have 6 players with 6 stars and 1 with 7 stars. Most of my players with special ability. I've been trolled so many times so far... Don't know what is wrong... I lost for many teams with 4 star average... I know it can happen sometimes, but not like this... I'm by far the strongest team in the league, but I'm struggling in 5th place... Tricolor FC

[HoofDaddy]

If you are losing to teams that are that badly set up, your tactics/strategy are obviously inferior. You don't play defensively (often) vs OOP players on inactive teams lol.