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Thread: I thought I'm winning my games because of my formations and tactics, but sorry to say

  1. #1
    Apprentice Sunil Chetri's Avatar
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    I thought I'm winning my games because of my formations and tactics, but sorry to say

    Here is example [IMG]first leg of cup semifinal, my opponent quality is 128%, my team quality is 114%
    So I decided to do a test, I set weird tactics hard attacking, passing through right flank( without MR & AMR),easy tackle, low pressing etc... My players are condition is about to 75% ( because I played a league game before 3 hours) didn't trained my players, I removed win bonus, his formation 4-3(w)-1-2, I win this game by 3-2, my AMC and 2 Strikers scored each goals...
    2nd leg game, Hard defending, other tactics are same as first leg games, removed win bonus, this time my players condition is about to 60%( when I played league game 3 hour before my team conditions is 80% average, so after the league game my players went down to 60%) didn't trained players, his formation was same as first leg, game result 4-4, I went to final,
    If I played this game with any legal formation & tactics I should have won, by this way what's the use of tactics & formation, player condition and many other things? In my way just buy good players, train them daily, you don't need to attend match, you will achieve top 4 place in any of 2 competitions,
    HairDryer likes this.

  2. #2
    Famous HairDryer's Avatar
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    you are lucky and should be very happy with the result. bt what work for you might not work on other manager. there is alot of factor which we cannot understand in te like you mention formation,bonus,condition and many more.
    my question is your oppo watching and how is his player condition? he might not be intrested or left the game. which is ofcoz unlikely.
    in term of quality is not a suprise anymore expecially in CL. i seen alot of high quality team beaten and out of the tournament.
    anyway i am happy for you.

  3. #3
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    Sunil- I actually think that are some great health signs from the game. Just shows that we all are looking for different things from a game like this!

    Take this scenarios in real life, how do you think they would affect games:
    -Mourinho tells his player to look for passing the ball up the right side if they have the opportunity, but then puts a team on the field with no MR/AMR. Do you a) think that Smalling and co. would send the ball up the ride side just giving it away, or b) pass to someone else instead?
    -One team has had a tough schedule and is playing a team that has had an easy schedule. Is it a given that the well rested team wins?
    -Mourinho tells his team to attack at every opportunity they get, will Smalling and co make dumb decisions?

    I am not saying that it is wrong, but many obviously want this to be more than a realistic "manager" game. They want it to be more like Chess or Clash Royale, where you -- control -- the out-come of the game.

    Nevio Scala is a tremendously successful former coach of Parma in Serie A. I think he won just short of 10 titles in Italia and Europe with that team, still many of his ex-players will claim that he knows nothing about soccer. They will say, with Scala as the coach the players have to coach themselves. He picked the team, said some dumb things, the players sat silently when he talked and then looked at each other thinking we will figure something out. I don't know anything about that, but fact of a matter is that many coaches have won titles at places and then failed tremendously at other places because they really wasn't good coaches to start it. Other times, the coach can be a great factor for his team winning a title, or do a heroic job and see his team relegated.

    I have seen many players claim that there is something wrong with the game because they cannot "mess" their team up. "Even if I give them stupid orders they will not give the game away?" But seriously, if a "real" coach gives a "real" player a "stupid" order, what will he do?

    I had this debate with another poster that was tremendously frustrated with his players making short passes despite him ordering them to make short passes. How could they make short passes when he ordered them to make long passes??? I checked the Premier league stats.

    R -- Team Long Balls pg --Short Passes pg -- Short Passes %
    1 Watford 80 308 79,4%
    2 Crystal Palace 74 293 79,8%
    3 Norwich 74 313 80,9%
    4 Everton 73 405 84,7%
    5 Leicester 72 282 79,7%
    6 Sunderland 71 270 79,2%
    7 West Bromwich Albion 71 255 78,2%
    8 Manchester United 71 461 86,7%
    9 West Ham 70 332 82,6%
    10 Newcastle United 69 333 82,8%
    11 Tottenham 68 427 86,3%
    12 Aston Villa 67 341 83,6%
    13 Southampton 67 355 84,1%
    14 Bournemouth 67 394 85,5%
    15 Swansea 65 419 86,6%
    16 Stoke 63 371 85,5%
    17 Liverpool 63 460 88,0%
    18 Chelsea 62 461 88,1%
    19 Manchester City 56 487 89,7%
    20 Arsenal 49 513 91,3%

    It shows what I am trying to say, Watford, making by far the most long balls in the PL, made short passes 80% of the time as opposed to Arsenal (the team making the most short passes) making them 90% of the time. The difference in the real world is that the team making the most long passes -- in 1 of 10 situations will pass long instead of short compared to the team making the most short passes. So if there was an option for "Extreme Long Passing Style" and one for "Extreme Short Passing Style", if the game was realistic, the result would be that one made a long pass once in 10 passes more.
    Last edited by Al Svanberg; 08-17-2016 at 10:04 PM.

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    Famous nash123's Avatar
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    I don't think, a manager left, if his team is at the semifinals of the Cup.

    But... for sure, I think, there was a change... my normal way doesn't work anymore. I use other tactics. F.E. todays CL-Semi: I was down 0:2 vs 60% weaker opponent at 50' with old tactics. At 50', I only changed tactics (to "new ones"), finally I won 6:2. Same at League game: I used old tactic, at halftime I was down 0:1 vs 50% weaker team. At halftime I changed to new tactic, finally I won 7:1.
    That's only today... this started friday. On Sunday, Monday and yesterday, I used new tactic, no problems. Today, I just want to test, if it was just random... and now I'm sure, to use new tactic.

  5. #5
    Apprentice Sunil Chetri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HairDryer View Post
    you are lucky and should be very happy with the result. bt what work for you might not work on other manager. there is alot of factor which we cannot understand in te like you mention formation,bonus,condition and many more.
    my question is your oppo watching and how is his player condition? he might not be intrested or left the game. which is ofcoz unlikely.
    in term of quality is not a suprise anymore expecially in CL. i seen alot of high quality team beaten and out of the tournament.
    anyway i am happy for you.👍
    I mentioned about another game result in another thread, if they decided you to make win or lose a game, you can't change result with changing tactics & formation, game result will only change if some one set a illegal formation, this is the story of my team,
    Today I won cup tournament I knew it already when I beat stronger opponent in Semis, but I won because of their random game engine system, not because of my formation and tactics

  6. #6
    Apprentice Sunil Chetri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nash123 View Post
    I don't think, a manager left, if his team is at the semifinals of the Cup.

    But... for sure, I think, there was a change... my normal way doesn't work anymore. I use other tactics. F.E. todays CL-Semi: I was down 0:2 vs 60% weaker opponent at 50' with old tactics. At 50', I only changed tactics (to "new ones"), finally I won 6:2. Same at League game: I used old tactic, at halftime I was down 0:1 vs 50% weaker team. At halftime I changed to new tactic, finally I won 7:1.
    That's only today... this started friday. On Sunday, Monday and yesterday, I used new tactic, no problems. Today, I just want to test, if it was just random... and now I'm sure, to use new tactic.
    I hardly believe that the game system was different from manager to manager,
    Last season I'm full active whole season I never missed a single game, I had a best team in my league, but still my team got many weird results I got 4th position very hardly,
    This season I played with same team, there are many better teams in my league, I put a same formation in almost of games, I didn't attend many games now my team at the top of table, I'm at top not because of my tactics, it's because of their system, that's it

  7. #7
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    I thought I'm winning my games because of my formations and tactics, but sorry to say
    Many people think that this game is like Chess but actually it's like Backgammon.
    It needs strategy, tactics, experience but a good/bad roll dice can be critical.
    If you played those two games, you know
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    Quote Originally Posted by nash123 View Post
    I don't think, a manager left, if his team is at the semifinals of the Cup.

    But... for sure, I think, there was a change... my normal way doesn't work anymore. I use other tactics. F.E. todays CL-Semi: I was down 0:2 vs 60% weaker opponent at 50' with old tactics. At 50', I only changed tactics (to "new ones"), finally I won 6:2. Same at League game: I used old tactic, at halftime I was down 0:1 vs 50% weaker team. At halftime I changed to new tactic, finally I won 7:1.
    That's only today... this started friday. On Sunday, Monday and yesterday, I used new tactic, no problems. Today, I just want to test, if it was just random... and now I'm sure, to use new tactic.
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  9. #9
    Apprentice Sunil Chetri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos View Post
    Many people think that this game is like Chess but actually it's like Backgammon.
    It needs strategy, tactics, experience but a good/bad roll dice can be critical.
    If you played those two games, you know
    Tactics, formation doesn't work in this game, if game engine wants us to win or loss a game that only happens, no matter which formation & tactics u use u will win/lose that match followed by game engine system(u can only change results by using illegal formations,
    I only mentioned 2-3 match examples but I realised lately why I'm winning against strong teams, my players are not in good condition but still I didn't loose against strong opponent, it's not normal, well this is just a start I will test more games against stronger opponents in upcoming season,

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunil Chetri View Post
    Tactics, formation doesn't work in this game, if game engine wants us to win or loss a game that only happens, no matter which formation & tactics u use u will win/lose that match followed by game engine system(u can only change results by using illegal formations,
    I only mentioned 2-3 match examples but I realised lately why I'm winning against strong teams, my players are not in good condition but still I didn't loose against strong opponent, it's not normal, well this is just a start I will test more games against stronger opponents in upcoming season,
    My experience is pretty much the opposite. But, I think you need to achive certain things in a game to get a certain reaction.

    A random order with a random formation will probably have zero or little impact.

    A few examples:
    -(i) With the right formation and (ii) the right opponent, I would definitely say that for example an order to focus the passing to a certain area of the field can have an impact.
    -Possession is definitely impacted by how strong you are at center midfield, if you face a team that plays only with a MC and a AMC and you have 3+ MCs/DMCs, you will get more possesssion. With more possesssion, you will get more chances.
    -If you can gain an advantage at either side of the pitch, without giving up too much in other areas, it can result in many goals and be very productive for you.
    -Counter attack can be effectful at times -- but -- it can definitely be dangerous used in the wrong situation/against the wrong opponent. Set Counter-Attacks on in the wrong situation and you will get a steady stream of give aways around the center field and attacks against you.
    -Hard tackles can improve your defense a bit, but it also definitely can give you more free-kicks against.

    I think you need to look at it from this perspective.

    1. The starting point is that a "normal" game is played. Ability vs ability is processed, and with a random factor you get an outcome.

    2. If you manage to do something well, take advantage of the opponent in any area, like by;
    (i) getting an advantage in an important area of the field (2 AMCs against no DMCs, a DL and a AML against only a DL on the other team)),
    (ii) adding possession or creating chances focusing your passing to any area of the field by using short passing through the middle against a team with fewer MCs/DMCs than you or down a flank that is weak on the opponent,
    (iii) by exploiting an offensive team with counter attacks, or sitting back and exploiting a team using counter attacks against you,
    (iv) etc etc etc etc;
    your actions can improve the chance of your team winning by it having more possesssion and hence more chances or directly creating more chances. This can definitely affect the outcome of a game.

    3. If you make a misstake, by giving your opponent any of the above advantages, you can decrease the odds of your team winning by loosing possession and having more chances against you. This can definitely decrease the possibility of you winning games.
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