Why is it still allowed that managers play with mutants like FK Zvejnieks?

To be clear. Buying a 3 star 18yo player via auctions or negotiations and training up I don't regard as abuse. Such as player could have high white skills and low grey skills but not 1% at 18yo.

The abuse is where a team repeatedly trains and sells such a player to their own team 2 levels higher and repeats until they have a player with say 1% greys and 340% whites. Overall q say 95% at 18yo. That is abusive in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by adifairus

why you think upselling is considered abuse?

and why do you think i cannot buy a player from lower level league to play in my higher level league? i will train him anyway

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My point is the upselling abuse has been supported by many forumers

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no, don't agree. I don't remember any post supporting that (at least from a regular forum member).
You can search yourself.

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limit negotiation of a player to 1 move a season to reduce how far they can move up the tree.

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yes, this is simple and logic (but don't know if the devs can work with that)

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3. By itself, the division into "dark" and "light" skills leads to the fact that this can be manipulated.

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definitely the devs should work this thing with skills/drills and training or else this would be just a Police and Thieves game.

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Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos

no, don't agree. I don't remember any post supporting that (at least from a regular forum member).
You can search yourself.


yes, this is simple and logic (but don't know if the devs can work with that)


definitely the devs should work this thing with skills/drills and training or else this would be just a Police and Thieves game.

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I don't need to search. We will just agree to disagree and move on eh.

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Originally Posted by rogerniceguy

To be clear. Buying a 3 star 18yo player via auctions or negotiations and training up I don't regard as abuse. Such as player could have high white skills and low grey skills but not 1% at 18yo.

The abuse is where a team repeatedly trains and sells such a player to their own team 2 levels higher and repeats until they have a player with say 1% greys and 340% whites. Overall q say 95% at 18yo. That is abusive in my opinion.

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repeatly train specific skill is actually smart work,

it's the system fault because allowing white skill keep gaining while gray skill maintain 1%,

by the way, its natural for somebody got crazy shooting skill but not brave at all, 1% bravery

very good dribbler but very bad at jumping and heading.. this type of person actually exist, but as a professional footballer, they should not has too much big gap between white and gray skill

the system should improve at this area

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Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos

limit negotiation of a player to 1 move a season to reduce how far they can move up the tree.
yes, this is simple and logic (but don't know if the devs can work with that)

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it does not solve all possible manipulations with the ratings of teams. the two most logical steps are to close the sale on the levels up and down the levels completely, close the negotiations and auction for the period of the matches of the associations and the last and first day of the season. Then we can say that for a while (until they find another solution), the game will become fair (in terms of the rating of teams before and after the draw of the associations, league, cup and the Champions League)

If you read my post I am not critical of training I am critical of players using multiple accounts to create a beat the game engine 18yo mutant.

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Originally Posted by lalexrus

it does not solve all possible manipulations with the ratings of teams. the two most logical steps are to close the sale on the levels up and down the levels completely, close the negotiations and auction for the period of the matches of the associations and the last and first day of the season. Then we can say that for a while (until they find another solution), the game will become fair (in terms of the rating of teams before and after the draw of the associations, league, cup and the Champions League)

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Negotiations would become useless if limited same level. If I spend 30t to buy a 99% player I am not selling him for below what I paid.

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It can be done, we understand that the negotiations feature is used mainly 1 time per season with the same player. When there's a repetitive upselling with the own multi accounts is when this can be understood as a abuse, and a non sense.
I've been myself pushing for a cap of 1 time per season or 1 time each 15 days in what players can be sold via nego's to keep some logic and fairness.
Maybe Im gonna post later the log with the main suggestions related to the issues, as when I do public the reports.

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Originally Posted by khris

It can be done, we understand that the negotiations feature is used mainly 1 time per season with the same player. When there's a repetitive upselling with the own multi accounts is when this can be understood as a abuse, and a non sense.
I've been myself pushing for a cap of 1 time per season or 1 time each 15 days in what players can be sold via nego's to keep some logic and fairness.
Maybe Im gonna post later the log with the main suggestions related to the issues, as when I do public the reports.

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It would be a shame for the negotiations feature to be removed totally as was the case with loans when that was abused. So yes let's have some constructive suggestions so we can keep this feature. For a start why not specifically ban the use of abusive upselling in the game T and Cs and follow through with bans.

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how about using the same concept like the facility building?

we cannot proceed to build next level facility if other facility is still at low level,

same as skill training,

for example, we cannot improve aggression further 100%++ if the bravery is still at 30%

we need to improve the bravery at certain value to increase the aggression further.

because to play aggressively need bravery.

this is just a suggestion to avoid big gap in specific skills.

while upselling/downselling feature is still required for us to manage our player and our income

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Originally Posted by rogerniceguy

Yes I agree players age and have those abilities. I have some players like that who have naturally developed that way although the new training system will stunt that to make players a little more naturally balanced. My point is the upselling abuse has been supported by many forumers and my last understanding was the loophole is still open to be exploited. I find this disappointing as this should be the priority over the actual training rebalancing. If not fixed then a suggestion to fix would be various as suggested already such as limit negotiation of a player to 1 move a season to reduce how far they can move up the tree.

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I don't think so. Many forumers have always been against the upselling trick. I constantly create 'mutants' every season, but using upselling trick to do so is plain cheating

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Originally Posted by adifairus

why you think upselling is considered abuse?

then, how about downselling? is it considered abuse also?

and why do you think i should not buy a player from lower level league to play in my higher level league?

i will train him anyway to suit to play in my league level, is there anything wrong with it? i don't think so

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Buying from lower leagues is not against the rules, but having multiple accounts for the sole purpose of trading players in order to have an unfair advantage is what is against the rules. It used to be written somewhere in the game, I just can't find it anymore.

Okay I will say when I have got it a little wrong and hold my hands up. The use of the word many was over the top. There are a select few members who have defended mutants for the reason they use the upselling trick. And not for the training used by players such as yourself and myself to certain extent which I don't personally consider to be abusive. A slight rebalancing in training or the game engine not the worst thing in the world.

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Originally Posted by Spartan117

I don't think so. Many forumers have always been against the upselling trick. I constantly create 'mutants' every season, but using upselling trick to do so is plain cheating

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Originally Posted by rogerniceguy

It would be a shame for the negotiations feature to be removed totally as was the case with loans when that was abused. So yes let's have some constructive suggestions so we can keep this feature. For a start why not specifically ban the use of abusive upselling in the game T and Cs and follow through with bans.

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It will be a shame really, but I'll rather they remove the feature than ruin training

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Originally Posted by Spartan117

It will be a shame really, but I'll rather they remove the feature than ruin training

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They fixed the wrong thing first in my opinion. Upselling trick should've been closed firstly. Then consider if rebalancing of game engine or skills was necessary.

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Originally Posted by Spartan117

Buying from lower leagues is not against the rules, but having multiple accounts for the sole purpose of trading players in order to have an unfair advantage is what is against the rules. It used to be written somewhere in the game, I just can't find it anymore.

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The terms and conditions (that can be found inside the game, below left sided options) talk about the account being trained by other managers and abuses related with the interaction of different accounts -like sell items in exchange of money, account selling etc- but it only mentions as far as Ive checked it carefully, the cases in what the accounts are from different managers, not if you do a deal with yourself to sell players from you to you even if it is done 5 times. lol

Time for the game makers to get tougher. Easier to fix T and Cs quick and ban users than remedy programming weaknesses.

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Originally Posted by khris

The terms and conditions (that can be found inside the game, below left sided options) talk about the account being trained by other managers and abuses related with the interaction of different accounts -like sell items in exchange of money, account selling etc- but it only mentions as far as Ive checked it carefully, the cases in what the accounts are from different managers, not if you do a deal with yourself to sell players from you to you even if it is done 5 times. lol

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Herehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c4a08925aa.jpg

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As usual with legal stuff clear as mud lol

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Originally Posted by madflo19

Herehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c4a08925aa.jpg

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Copy/paste of my own words: -personal log- of what IMO are the main priorities -ofc. everyone see the situation from different viewpoints but, in these points there's a high coincidence of opinions from many managers sides:
(resume deleting some parts lol)

"1- Fix the GK issue that was created once the GK attributes were created + the drills were liked to them, as this is a hole, caused by something not fixed at the proper moment
2- re-selling/upselling/ own-multi-selling or how you wanna call it, cap, cause the feature is great, Top levels should have it so the solution of do not sell players to higher levels should be discarded, and add a max cap of 1 time each 15 days or if it is more easy 1 time per season. This to avoid the multi account abuse as should have clear rules/limitations there. (edited)
3- max. 160% diff between the min and max. skill, to don't get the simulator crazy and broken with oversized skills . Plus + a player should be a "total", a "complete player" inside some parameters, and fit inside some limits understanding that the game is leveled, that the market level is regulated in 5*, and that the season really goes so fast having 28 days, so a "unlimited" system or one disparate don't fits as break the whole dynamic of the game, which turns crazy facing the teams even when these have similar AvQ's. (edited)
4- To end with what should be a update of Quality standards inside the game, related to pending issues to solve, a FAs contract should be created, so once the FAs start all players bought should not be allowed to participe till next week. This can be done too, adding a 3 days penalization -internal and unique time straight red card style to suspend players during 3 days only for FAs - so, more or less with the other fixings the assos will level up as a competition, and of course in terms of fairness (edited)

this last point is like a substitution of the "list of 14" players for FAs that if were introduced would be like the real Fifa competitions where the national teams and uefa teams need closed lists of chosen players before the competition starts
5- and pending, the FAs draw system has been corrupted since weeks ago and is doing the draws using the AvQ of the moment/exact hour of the draw in the place to face teams in order of/listed by AvQ as before, This is another stuff pending to be solved. "

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Originally Posted by madflo19

Herehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c4a08925aa.jpg

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Originally Posted by rogerniceguy

As usual with legal stuff clear as mud lol

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What I said xD dont talk about the supposed of a "you to yourself" benefit using 2, 5 or 20 acc's ..."for others" :rolleyes:

One thing you forget is that you are not a developer, you have a good idea, but if you do not like the game, no one forces you to play. There are many games.

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Originally Posted by Neno

One thing you forget is that you are not a developer, you have a good idea, but if you do not like the game, no one forces you to play. There are many games.

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and no one forces you to make a post .
If you don't have anything to say for contribute in the conversation, suggestions, solutions, arguments, don't post.

Please stay on topic .

I have a question:
Does anyone lost a league,Cup or Champions League from mutant team?

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Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos

for me @rogerniceguy this case is close for every one (I mean us, the forum members-players).
Everybody accepts that this is abusing of the system.
No need to say the same things again and again.

But you can have players 21-22 y.o. or older, with 340-1%. without abusing.

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Totally agree, I have a few at 21yo, white skills around 250% and gray 1%. Why do we must be punished?

Nobody should be punished (and this not gonna happen) as nobody should moan if they take the lollipop from their mouth - lol

Players can hardly be blamed when the game engine seems to lead players down to 1% grey skills naturally by 22 or 23 anyway. Those skills don't seem to receive much attention in the match reports for example.

But yes I've been referring to the upselling problem between teams belonging to the same user as the original post identified an 18yo with 1% grey skills.

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To stop up selling Nordeus need to close the nego. Change TM auction let managers sell player in auction to other managers rather then the system buy back. (Like the old TM + token like nego.




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Originally Posted by khris

It can be done, we understand that the negotiations feature is used mainly 1 time per season with the same player. When there's a repetitive upselling with the own multi accounts is when this can be understood as a abuse, and a non sense.
I've been myself pushing for a cap of 1 time per season or 1 time each 15 days in what players can be sold via nego's to keep some logic and fairness.
Maybe Im gonna post later the log with the main suggestions related to the issues, as when I do public the reports.

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Minimum contract of 15 days sounds like it could be interesting. It would certainly slow down the upselling of players.

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Originally Posted by Altiplano

Minimum contract of 15 days sounds like it could be interesting. It would certainly slow down the upselling of players.

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I totally support this idea.

I'm still suggesting the idea that following this: you cannot buy (from ur pov) player with "under 40%" gray skills (yes even hes got 1) . PERIOD
from 18yo to 21yo... If you snipe a 22 yo (or older) player with 40% below/under skills you can buy it of course! :)

problem solved

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Originally Posted by rogerniceguy

Yes I agree players age and have those abilities. I have some players like that who have naturally developed that way although the new training system will stunt that to make players a little more naturally balanced. My point is the upselling abuse has been supported by many forumers and my last understanding was the loophole is still open to be exploited. I find this disappointing as this should be the priority over the actual training rebalancing. If not fixed then a suggestion to fix would be various as suggested already such as limit negotiation of a player to 1 move a season to reduce how far they can move up the tree.

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I totally agree

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Originally Posted by Spartan117

I don't think so. Many forumers have always been against the upselling trick. I constantly create 'mutants' every season, but using upselling trick to do so is plain cheating

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I totally agree. This is the reason why I made this thread.

If this will not be fixed there will be always the same nerds and managers who win this cups and league, because they are so "smart" to use the upselling trick.
Pickpockets are also smarter than owners of purses

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Originally Posted by rogerniceguy

To be clear. Buying a 3 star 18yo player via auctions or negotiations and training up I don't regard as abuse. Such as player could have high white skills and low grey skills but not 1% at 18yo.

The abuse is where a team repeatedly trains and sells such a player to their own team 2 levels higher and repeats until they have a player with say 1% greys and 340% whites. Overall q say 95% at 18yo. That is abusive in my opinion.

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I totally agree. Exactly THAT is the abuse!

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Originally Posted by Rizla

I have a question:
Does anyone lost a league,Cup or Champions League from mutant team?

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if there is no answer, then I conclude that no one lost a cup or championship
and all the noise is done for the associations...
But the mutant teams do not stop you from going platinum... so what's the big deal?

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Does anyone lost a league,Cup or Champions League from mutant team?

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if you read here
https://forum.topeleven.com/top-elev...trained-2.html

@lalexrus has a 5*-6* 340%+1% team, in a Russian group at top12 i think ?
Also those top10 Russian groups teams have some trebles or doubles.

So a team with those players can be unbeaten in official competitions as in favor for asso draws too.

If they continue using or training those players, they 're not gonna stay at 340-1% but still a player with 300%-20% has some mutation effect in the game.

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Originally Posted by Ποσιδονας

if you read here
https://forum.topeleven.com/top-elev...trained-2.html

@lalexrus has a 5*-6* 340%+1% team, in a Russian group at top12 i think ?
Also those top10 Russian groups teams have some trebles or doubles.

So a team with those players can be unbeaten in official competitions as in favor for asso draws too.

If they continue using or training those players, they 're not gonna stay at 340-1% but still a player with 300%-20% has some mutation effect in the game.

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"full 340-1" - not a guarantee of victory in the official match (as in the associations). guarantee of victory in official tournaments - a good draw.
if you want to win 10 trebles in a row - it is not necessary to train players at all - enough to leave only 14 players 1-3* on the last day of the season and buy players 4-5* on the first day of the season. You will play with teams 1-40% and your team's rating will be about 60%.
from the latter I hope you understand the scale of the manipulations of all managers, it does not matter in the top-100 or not. that's why I'm writing - to limit the auction for the period of matches of associations, the first and last day of the season

And is it worth it? You will have to play with a monthly card but will not help you, you need 300T per season. You know the auctions for players what are crazy at the beginning of the season. If you have a second team on a single server or multiple? this is an excellent option.

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Originally Posted by Rizla

if there is no answer, then I conclude that no one lost a cup or championship
and all the noise is done for the associations...
But the mutant teams do not stop you from going platinum... so what's the big deal?

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The first in my league is FK Zwejnieks and has some mutant players. I am second and had in both matches not the chance whatsoever, although I have about 116% and he only 95%. This is the reason why I have opened this thread.

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Originally Posted by buzzards

The first in my league is FK Zwejnieks and has some mutant players. I am second and had in both matches not the chance whatsoever, although I have about 116% and he only 95%. This is the reason why I have opened this thread.

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You have to take in the efforts FK Zwejnieks have put in, building a strong team to be a champion. He probably have spent more time and green then you do. So sometime you have to accept that although up selling is unacceptable.
Everyone who play want to be a winner only the way you do it. Don’t blame him is not totally his fault he took the advantage Nordeus provide.
It’s becoming a trend in TE.


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