Who can give me more information?Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido van den Berg
Other Platinum managers, do you see the same number of promotors and relegators?
Anyone from Nordeus, will this stay the same in future seasons?
Who can give me more information?Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido van den Berg
Other Platinum managers, do you see the same number of promotors and relegators?
Anyone from Nordeus, will this stay the same in future seasons?
I think this is a heist, all teams that move up the division should be able to get the same rewards as before. In the new version, if I understand it correctly, if you do not remain among the 4 first no week you will not earn anything even if you go up because you are among the first 12
edit: sorry question is already on a previous page
With limited info, it is difficult to judge how promotion and relegation would look like in the long run. Those numbers could easily change to accommodate on how prestigious it is to stay in ultimate and diamond divisions.
Platinum, now being the 3rd tier from the top, is definitely overcrowded when it comes to a pyramid structure. Therefore, it makes sense to reduce the number of platinum teams. The 2 common ways of doing it: 1) Quickly push up some of the platinum associations to fill in the top 2 tiers in Ultimate and Diamond, so the numbers of that 2 tiers are more quickly filled up to make it looks balanced; 2) Slowly filter up the best associations who can be top 8 of any 64-asso group and gradually get the numbers up
Most managers probably want to see the first way of doing it as we all want more T-rewards ASAP, and rightly so; but then when doing that, it is also likely to be criticised by some managers, who may be platinum association’s captain or vice captains, that they were hugely and disproportionately punished for having one poor league position finishing in last season, plus it would simply look like filtering some into the top 2 tiers as a cosmetic move instead of the advertised in really highly competitive association fights for the top rewards.
The new version definitely awards the winners and also comforts the losers (in the sense that they would still get 4x weekly T-rewards even if they unluckily loss against very strong opposition with very unlucky draws, instead of getting 0T when relegated), and so would mostly irritate those who could finish more in 2nd or 3rd who regularly receives 100T in surviving in platinum. Different reactions would come from these 3 groups, understandably.
Too early to judge before any draw is made. Personally, I will wait for a few seasons before giving a final comment.
I don’t need your opinion for now. I understand that you did not make up your mind about good/bad, fair/unfair.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavensAAA
But please help me understand the promotion / relegation for this season a bit better. What is your association level? How many teams are promoted / relegated from your leader board?
8 go up from platinum in mine and about 24 go down. I feel this season could be hardest to promote because u have all the top platinum teams still in platinum. When some get promoted I feel it may get a little easier to promote once the teams have been diluted
It's the same for everyone, in plat 8 go up and 24 go down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido van den Berg
I think in lower leagues more will be promoted.
For what the info is available, within every 64-asso draw, 8 teams (top 1/8) will be promoted to diamond, 24 teams (bottom 3/8) will be relegated to gold1 and the rest of 32 teams (‘middle 4/8) survives and stay in platinum. The grand point total accumulated at the end of a season of 4 rounds of ranking 1 to 4 would decide where we rank among the 64 teams in a draw, and would decide if we would be promoted, surviving or relegated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido van den Berg
Association level our association starts in this new FA system is the same as before new FA is implemented. ie. if we finished our last season within the platinum association requirement of 1350 points, then our association could start in the new system as a platinum division, which is the highest starting point possible.
The top 100 leaderboard will be concluded by end of season when 4 rounds of matchups are done, which in similar in terms of format. The major difference is it no longer used an accumulation of points before where our association carried 80% of those as part of the calculations, but instead every single season that base point will be reset to a 0, and so every season every team could have an equal fighting chance as no team would have any starting advantage (vs points accumulation from previous seasons in the old system).
This is stupid argument. If we are promoted, I want to get more. If we stay in Platinum, I hate the idea, that we get 2 times less. Why? Greedy basterds, I hate then fore that. And will hate forever
lol U forget that before platinum was top tier, now is only like middle tier, like Gold II before. In some time, when the new system is established, most of the better associations will settle in ultimate or diamond.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmytrok
Say that your asso is a top performing one and is always good enough to promote within the top 8. And also assume you all can always finish a 4-round season with 2x 1st finishes, 1x 2nd finish and 1x 3rd finish, so when your team gets promoted to ultimate, your team will receive a total of 172T (2x 47, 1x 43 & 1x 35) instead of the regular 100T you could have earned with staying in platinum in the old system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmytrok
Even if your team only manages to stay in diamond, everyone in the asso would get 110T (2x 30, 1x 27 & 1x 23) with the same set of results, which is still more than the previous 100T.
How would you get less then? The only reason would be your asso is not good enough, as a whole, to get promoted to any of the top 2 tiers and only manage to stay in the current 3rd tier of the new system. It is common knowledge for platinum associations to have 2x 1st places finish to survive (or as an alternative, 1x 1st & 3x 2nd) in platinum in the old system.
The idea of earning less than before only shows 1 thing, and we all know why.
Attachment 137153
This is stupid argument. If they add some additional levels, It means that I was relegated two tears down! Without any fight! I hate them for that. But I hate them more for the fact, that we will get 2 times less for staying in Platinum.
And I am not even sure that we may stay in Platinum. Our average is 100% and some assos from our group have 140%. There is no chance to be promoted
Like said, what you say may be true for now, but in a few seasons the platinum part will be a walk in the park probably if you are in a good asso. Because before the update being in platinum meant that you can also play vs a top 100 asso with really good players. There was no difference between a 1200 pts asso in platinum and a 2000 pts association. Both could be in the same matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmytrok
In a few months all the really good assos will play in ultimate league, so in platinum will only be the not so good associations.
Only the fittest survives and best earns the most. And we fight to prove we are better than the rest to get promoted (Earn it, not given it).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmytrok
And plus, average % does not decide the outcome, as the best managers can regularly win against 10%+ quality managers, or even 20%-0+, with superior formation and tactics, along with a better-trained team. Those 140% teams will get drawn to play with assos of similar rating (and you are not playing against those teams in the same draw, let alone those particular 140% asso), so it is puzzling why you feel you need to win against those 140% teams at all.
Are you sure the tokens earned every week will be multiplied according to the position in the league? The help says it is the association points, not the tokens. If it were as you say, you are right to wait until the end of the season to assess the change, but if not we will earn less no matter where you lookQuote:
Originally Posted by HeavensAAA
I read alot of comments of how the new associations targets tankers. i dont quite get how it will discourage tanking. Tankers can still tank and rejoin a season later with 3x multiplier. They never used to get any tokens the season they tanked anyway. They can just tank more and get a full 11 star team to make up for the additional season in limbo.
In fact now the opportunity cost is low for those needing a break or want to tank a few seasons. If you cant get into a diamond or ultimate association, it would only be a 40 plus tokens loss in platinum on average per season (assuming one wins enough to stay in plat). Tanking can gain us alot more from daily logins and stuff while saving alot of resources.
I think we cannot deny the fact that we get less tokens. Players in ultimate are going to be tankers or spenders. Its is just part of their move towards more profits. Nothing wrong with that but it sucks for us. I wont spend more than i can gain from associations so probably cant go very far.
If nik is tanking, that should be the way to go. It just shows how bad the issues are at the top of the server so best to avoid as long as possible. To me, he was and still is the most credible source of information. He encouraged saving rather than spending just to compete. The best lesson in the game is budgeting but tanking works too.
He did not write that...Quote:
Originally Posted by miloren
Tokens are delivered each week, depending on the tournament performance, you only can be 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th as usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by miloren
There is nothing that multiply tokens depending on your League position.
Hi Guido,Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido van den Berg
in Gold I 1-12 get promoted and 45-64 relegated.
But the problem is that your multiplier will be 1x and if you promote every season in top 3 of League it will be 3x... so that will be a big difference in the amount points a FA can make.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Sillybq
So for me in the Top there will be more people who spent real money and also people who are really smart too use their resources they get for free from the daily loginetc.
They definitely succeeded in reducing tanking. And tankers previously had an unfair advantage in associations. All changes come at a price. We all suffer the same fate with the reduced tokens so no issue. Comes down to who manages better with the reduced tokens. I do agree that tankers will dominate in ultimate but with more work and difficulty. All it takes is an additional season to get the *3 and they can rejoin associations but at least they won't hinder the rest of us while in the process of tankingQuote:
Originally Posted by Sillybq
Depending on the draw system the war could be between those earning x3/2 and then a x1 in alternate seasons vs those having always a x3 cause of constant promotions.
Both cases, could too, switch multies to the FAs to keep the advantadge set to the Max., advantadge from tanking/promoting, or to have the x3 with one or another account...
(still maybe the system will prevent hard manipulations if the draws are between same Division FAs, obviously will be an important factor)
Here the dilemma comes when we have to define what is acceptable to have a fair competition, and where is the limit. The advantadges given by some movements, that in the end, as happened with the manipulations and the 1*s. force everyone to do the same, may need some extra action like adding Loyalty Bonuses once a team stay 4 seasons inside a FA, having a x1'5 bonus to try to prevent abusive behaviors that should be tackled IMO, because isn't the same play with 1 account than play with 15 accounts per head.
There's a problem too in a middle term with the own levels collapse, as the servers are designed to stop promoting teams at L100, and we have 220+ top servers with teams repeating levels that should be able to join the FAs, so if top 8 repeats level should be considered as promotion for the whole league.
And btw we will see how it develps, but initially the AvQ gap should be reduced in mostly of competitions by forcing promotions 1 time every 2 seasons overall, still its a complex matter when we talk about margins, what is fair play, what should be allowed, etc...
As said, next steps, to keep a general fair play line should include a new negos only for 18-19 aged, a +2LV cup/CL for 120% promoters and proportional events for tankers that reach the 180%, as tanking shouldn't be a guarantee of win. If I face a 130 with a 115% team, a 180 should face a 195%...
Guido van den Berg is right. I never suggested in any thread that tokens earned in FA tournament would be multiplied. If anything, I only mentioned that a manager who won a top3 in league in a season would be granted a x3 multiplier for FA tournaments in the following season which increases the chance of getting more points for his association.Quote:
Originally Posted by miloren
It is further illustrated by my example earlier by the addition of 4x weekly T-income with various finishes to compare with expected T-income in the upcoming new system vs the old system. It is quite clear the example used is an addition of weekly income, not multiplication there.
Regards to tanking, as a few who suggested, tankers could still try it in an alternative season mode. ie. 1 season in top 3, then rejoin the asso to get top x3 multiplier for the following season when they tank and then quit the asso in the season after next. Tankers doing this will need to have 2 acc doing alternate this, and there is no guarantee both their teams could always achieve top3 league standing in the season after they do not tank (ie. Serial tankers may not be ‘good’ enough to win league matches consistently enough with deteriorating tanker teams after not doing so for a long time, their teams promoting 20% every other season means they can no longer use old players to keep tanking but have to learn in knowing how to train younger players and improve them efficiently than relying on automatic increases in serial tanking seasons, etc.). At least serial tankers cannot tank repeatedly and continuously without stops to keep their teams or specifically a few of players at 180%+ forever (as if those players would only improve and never ever deteriorate in their whole career) to manipulate the top-100 like before.
Seasoned-experienced managers of fighting with equal or better opposition without tanking, and to some degree manipulators (who surely did face other manipulators and tankers in draws), have way more solid tactical know-how to win top3 in leagues, in general (because they always try to play to win all 51 matches in a season vs only tanker’s 25 [when they put out tanker formation to lose 26]). That kind of game knowledge gap would hopefully be exposed from next season’s league, and hopefully some of the best non-tanking managers would beat tankers in failing to get league top3 finishes and screw those 1-in-1-out rules-exploiting planning by those gangs of 6 doing the same. (That rule, I believe, is set up to help high level managers near the top in having a fairer chance of getting a x3 multiplier, not for tankers to control multiple accounts jumping in and out regularly and systematically of 1 specific association)
P.S. Maybe an addition rule in limiting the same team be unable to join the same association for more than once within 5-6 seasons should help plugging that possible loophole. Any association who removed a certain member with strong, valid reasons would not consider accepting the same member back into the group so soon anyway, as well as for members who decided to quit an association with long, hard thoughts of pros and cons before doing so. Most other games with association function also have this kind of rules to avoid exploitation too.
This is where I might look stupid... but has the ability to request training been removed? I can see how I can train with FA members, but no option to request what type of training bonus I want. Easily solved with a message in the FA chat, but just making sure I'm not missing something
Thanks. So the maximum number of tokens, winning all 4 tournaments, is 64 in platinum, 16x4, far from the 100 you earned for staying even if you did not finish 1st in the 4 tournaments. The cut of tokens in rewards is considerable, and liquidates the possibility of living with the tokens by associations as many of us did to be able to compete against those who use the visa.Quote:
Originally Posted by khris
The only positive data is that the tanks are finished. But the tanks that run out are the ones that can be made for free, staying in the same division. If you use the visa again you have no limit.
Let's call this update then by its name, which is not exactly "improvement", but another step in the goal of turning the game into a perfect pay to win.
You are wrong. You can still do this the same way, but your association needs to promote to Diamond or (even better) Ultimate to get the amount of tokens that you were used to. Or get way more if you perform well.Quote:
Originally Posted by miloren
You do not look stupid at all. I cannot find a way to request a training bonus either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludo_Mansio
Me too....Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido van den Berg
The new system requires genuine instruction from teammates via chat to communicate on what we need and teammate adds it on.
Should not be too hard for a 1-liner request with a 1-liner reply from each of the 3 pairings
I'm afraid I'm not wrong. Apart from the asso points, which are the ones that are affected by the factor you get from your position in the previous league, the other rewards are specific. And the final reward for staying in the same division is 10 green, 10 blue and 10 red, and 20 for going up, no yellow tokens like before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido van den Berg
Then, the maximum number of tokens you can get at the end of the season is 40 in gold1, instead of the 100 you got for going up, 64 in platinum winning all tournaments (4x16), instead of the 100 you got for only remain, and now finally a bit more in diamond and ultimate if you work hard. In gold1 and earlier, the robbery is armed, since even with bad results in the former one you earned more tokens managing to stay in the same division than moving up in the new being 1st the 4 weeks
Please miloren, read what I wrote. You need to promote to one of the top-2 divisions. These have more rewards than before.Quote:
Originally Posted by miloren
I think it's really great that platinum opens in 2 new divisions, it was necessary and will be motivating, and that in these divisions you be able to earn more tokens, if it were not like that it would be the last straw. And I also like that build tanks remaining in the division becomes more difficult, although nothing is done to prevent them from being formed with money, on the contrary, all facilities are given to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido van den Berg
I just wonder why the previous rewards have not been respected, which as I have already said were the only source of tokens for many to be able to compete. Why is it used to liquidate any possibility of competing without a visa. I understand that it is not a constructive comment, of course.
All the associations who previously were in Platinum have been placed in Platinum. Out of the 64 teams in Platinum only 8 will be promoted which means 7/8 of the association who sure shot got 100T earlier can only get a max of 64T now that too if they win on all weekends.
It's quite clear why this new system has been implemented by Nordues.
Nothing is liquidated, you just need to promote from platinum. No free ride, you must work for it. You can still compete without money, but fewer managers will get many tokens. I think this is a good thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by miloren
Depends on the individual, i know you tanked and play mostly for associations so thats your motivation. I can see why you would think it is smart for a player to use their free resources to do well in associations. I feel events and associations are for us to earn resources not spend.Quote:
Originally Posted by maloukees
I think i know what you mean. I was focused on tankers not losing out in terms of tokens. But like you said, they lose out in term of participation. Previously they do not earn rewards but can help their association, now they cant do both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastsiderSG
Mate Lol, you sound like we are definitely gonna manage with reduced tokens. I think ultimate is out of reach but diamond perhaps.
Will the FA Points Multiplier be applicable for the result of individual matches between two associations, or only to determine the contribution to the season totals? An example. We play a semi-final match against association X. We win 19-16 (old calculation). Our association members all have 2x and all members of association X have 3x. Will the score be 38-48, so will association X go to the finals? Or do we go to the finals, because the multiplier is only applicable to the season score?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido van den Berg
That multiplier seems to only affect our individual contribution to the grand point tally by multiplying the corresponding ranking in that week. Matchup results also seems to follow the old rules. That’s my understanding - though the info provided is not totally clear on this yet.
4 things to the top: 1) member’s own ability to secure top3 in league (for a x3 multiplier for team FA points); 2) a collective effort to win the matchups; 3) luck in drawing less competent associations in the 64-team draw (ideally with more asso with more x1 multiplier members ;) ); 4) luck in getting an easier draw of matchups
Wish everyone luck (except those other 63 associations in our draw ;) )!
I read the info the same way as you did. But I saw the picture below on Facebook. Therefore, I’m in doubt now...Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavensAAA
Attachment 137171
Well, from the image, it is pretty clear each of the 6 match-ups would be calculated separately, which would hurt any non- x3 multiplier player asso (unless their x1 or x2 get both wins to just take away any possibility of matchup opposition getting any points).Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido van den Berg
If what you have got is how it will work, our x3 asso teammates will need to win more to cover up for x2 teammates. x1 have to win both matches to just not concede ground. And most platinum asso captains will kick away x1 teammates very soon too (sentiments as long-term teammates to keep x1 may get the asso relegated).
