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Thread: Game still manages to surprise me (not in a good way)

  1. #1
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    Jan 2019
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    Game still manages to surprise me (not in a good way)

    Probably seems odd to put a negative post up when I have just won the Super league, but I am level 92, so been playing a while - played a slightly better team in the final (+5%) who ironically I had beaten away 5-3 in the league earlier today too.
    I was 3-0 up in the final - they had a player sent off in the 34th minute. I scored from the resulting penalty. - so 4-0 at half time. I kept the same tactics for the 2nd half - by the 78th minute, he had pulled it back to 4-3, and I am left hanging on for the win. He had 3 players with low ratings, I had 3 players with good ratings!
    I also got 1 first team player and 1 sub 'fire up' from winning.
    What do you need to do???

  2. #2
    Newbie
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    Dec 2020
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    Sadly the inconsistent results are the only the tip of the iceberg in this pos game . My latest concern is that Nordeus stole my assets , token , greens, reds, blues. Agreed to give back if I deleted a player I paid for. Just thieves that cheat and steal from customers. Good luck with support, non existent in my opinion.

  3. #3
    Apprentice
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    Mar 2020
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    I always lose when my opponent have a red card. I wonder why it never happens to most managers. Then I came across your post. I went out of the Champs league after winning the first leg 2-0, he gat a red card in the second leg and beat me 1-4.

    The same opponent beat me with a red card about 3 or 4 seasons ago. He has never beaten me with a complete team. It is what it is. I don't want to meet him again.

  4. #4
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    Random result is part of this game nowdays, no matter what tactic, i manage 2-3 teams, same tactic, different result, one team got jinxed every season... ffs
    khris likes this.

  5. #5
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flow View Post
    Random result is part of this game nowdays, no matter what tactic, i manage 2-3 teams, same tactic, different result, one team got jinxed every season... ffs
    Internal programming, thats all.
    If you play the same tactic in all your teams, you need to understand that the engine assigns internal roles that are calibrated and limited to create realism.
    That's why we say that counters doesnt exist, technically the game doesn't understand this concept, about tactics. All is about internal roles and power assigned, and about understand how your team has been designed, because you'll never be able to buy 2 identic STs and see how intentionally, you can create x2** perfect players by just investing boosters. The players have roles setting a cap to the performance, so you can have, a key player, some players that will contribute following a pattern or variable, scorers, assistants (predetermined, this means that players have animations linked, and as a football simulator the game needs to assign goal animations, assists, FKs, corners, SAs showing up etc) ... then the simulation isnt "lineal", doesnt count all posible factors that can affect a match (condition, morale, win bonus, each setting...) it counts all factors and these are in ON-OFF, meaning that the game creates scenarios with only few determinant factors.

    Then just remember that the most important thing int his game, is simply the possesion bar. It tells you the state of the game control, so first of all, find the center of the bar, which is displaced always from the 50% and try to overcome this virtual center by switching settings, because the game is reactive and once you switch from one focus passing side to another, or one mentality to another, you'll see the bar reacting almost instantanely.

    You can not use tactics in a logical way. You can not, create intentionally a key player.

    Try to learn about internal programming and scenario lecture.
    Last edited by khris; 04-28-2021 at 05:23 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbas View Post
    I always lose when my opponent have a red card. I wonder why it never happens to most managers. Then I came across your post. I went out of the Champs league after winning the first leg 2-0, he gat a red card in the second leg and beat me 1-4.

    The same opponent beat me with a red card about 3 or 4 seasons ago. He has never beaten me with a complete team. It is what it is. I don't want to meet him again.
    Regarding the RC issue, I would share my own observation for your reference. As a manager, I did lose a few matches that opponents got a red card when I first started playing the game (without understanding why that would happen). Once I somehow figured out why, all those matches are now won easily.

    There are a few possibilities of scenarios of red cards being incurred:

    1) Random event allocated by engine calculations in-match, such as an opposition defender fouling our player in the box then conceded by a PK and he got sent off too: Random events are the easiest to handle, as the engine ‘action’ does not imply any vulnerabilities of any player, players performance in that area or anything else. ie. just an allocation of randomly negative events to balance up the probability over a lot of matches.

    2) Obvious poor performance of a certain opposition player: this can be confirmed by his exceptionally poor rating (6.5- or lower) and/or frequent occurrence of fouls by that player as illustrated by text (eg. Player X committed a foul and the referee was having none of it. He got a booking, etc.). This usually results in a RC with the expected accumulation of 2 yellow cards. Note that this poor performance is only limited to that particular player and other players in the same area would have normal or even better ratings than usual.

    3) A certain area of opposition area, say opposition DC area, which performs extremely poorly: That results in repeated scoring by our players in certain areas and reconfirmed by poor ratings of all opposition players in that areas. Usually that follows with a knock-on effect of a series of yellow cards issued to players in that area and nearby areas (when nearby area players are also cautioned while they attempted to help out). RC could then be an accumulation of 2 yellows to players in that area (more often) or even to the nearby area player (less often but still would happen when we purposefully move players around to pressure them with 2v1)

    Scenario 1 has the most straightforward solution: We should make use of our extra man advantage in taking up the space made available by opposition player being sent off (vs non-attending managers).

    Scenario 2 & 3 are not as straightforward though.

    With scenario 2, say both us and opposition plays 2 MC and 1 of opposition MC got sent off by a 2nd yellow. If his MC partner has a good rating (7.0-7.5+) and without a yellow card, then we should attempt to move 1 MC to man-mark opposition MC and move our other totally free MC into more advanced position with up-arrow to support AMC or wingers (instead of maintaining positions or attempting to sandwich him), because that other MC is more than likely to be able to hold his ground and our team would not get further advantage (card, extra possession turnover, etc.) in targeting that 2nd MC as illustrated by no card and good rating.

    With scenario 3, it is obvious that we should move our players as close and packed to that opposition area, change orders to target that area and possibly change formation to put more attackers into that area where they perform poorly. That should result in a very high scoring win with attackers in that area having a field day. If we did not make these changes to take advantage, it it highly likely that the engine would allocate more events to occur in other areas of the pitch, which often means the opposition gets a far higher proportion of possession and chances than what a typical 10-men team would have. And in the balance of probabilities, engine’s random allocation of performers would means some opposition players would have been given performance boosts when 1 player of theirs suffered the worst, so in those matches when we do not change our team shape and orders after the RC, opposition would be ‘set free’ by the RC and other areas’ boosted players will perform like superman and win with 10 men.
    Winning is a form of art. Consistently winning is a show-hand of skills and luck.
    Asso tag: #29GB24 (1st level-8 team record holder) & #AAK65W (2nd level-5 team)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    Internal programming, thats all.
    If you play the same tactic in all your teams, you need to understand that the engine assigns internal roles that are calibrated and limited to create realism.
    That's why we say that counters doesnt exist, technically the game doesn't understand this concept, about tactics. All is about internal roles and power assigned, and about understand how your team has been designed, because you'll never be able to buy 2 identic STs and see how intentionally, you can create x2** perfect players by just investing boosters. The players have roles setting a cap to the performance, so you can have, a key player, some players that will contribute following a pattern or variable, scorers, assistants (predetermined, this means that players have animations linked, and as a football simulator the game needs to assign goal animations, assists, FKs, corners, SAs showing up etc) ... then the simulation isnt "lineal", doesnt count all posible factors that can affect a match (condition, morale, win bonus, each setting...) it counts all factors and these are in ON-OFF, meaning that the game creates scenarios with only few determinant factors.

    Then just remember that the most important thing int his game, is simply the possesion bar. It tells you the state of the game control, so first of all, find the center of the bar, which is displaced always from the 50% and try to overcome this virtual center by switching settings, because the game is reactive and once you switch from one focus passing side to another, or one mentality to another, you'll see the bar reacting almost instantanely.

    You can not use tactics in a logical way. You can not, create intentionally a key player.

    Try to learn about internal programming and scenario lecture.
    This programming scheme is starting to get on my nerves after 11 seasons. Especially with the new assistant notes since I used to go off of the old notes like "They passed the ball around us to easily" or "We need to be more aggressive on the ball" or other notes like that that would kind of tell me what happened between the animations. Addressing these issues in training and skills seemed to have worked despite many people saying the program doesn't work that way. Before higher levels forced me to change my game, I used to play in that manner, but now I am increasingly finding myself trying to guess and trick the internal programming in the software. What I don't get is why can't we model soccer games with all 22 players and all white skills corresponding to the position the player is placed in. This would make it so much more about managing a soccer team again than about try to work the simplistic programming.

    Making a more intricate simulation like that is very, very possible. When me and my brother played a lot of Medieval Lego battles, we always had the issue of biased battles. So I programmed on fricken Excel (yeah I know) program where each Kingdom could create regiments, with specific battle orders, from their army which typically sized between 15 and 30 heavy infantry and some 30 civilians in the civilian militia. Among all 8 kingdoms each soldier was registered with a skill set (very much inspired by Top Eleven) that was unique to each individual much like this game. There were 27 battle skills and some 40 civilian skills like sewing which was used for the economic simulation we already had in place at that time. The 27 battles skills accounted for a few general skills like strength along with specific skills like sword fighting, spear fighting, etc. Each soldier through training had skills to operate specific weapons exceptionally well which had specific battle characteristics described through potency, blocking, agility, weight, and some more factors. The kings/generals could then assign formations along with mentalities (also Top Eleven inspired) that would determine how the players arrange themselves on the field, filling-in/pull back wounded/killed allies, and stage themselves to fill gaps. The resulting positions and casualties of each iteration were shown on a graphic (Conditional formation, yeah that was a lot of work) that allowed us to know where our guys had to go for the next move. Yes, this also accounted for buildings, rivers, elevations, horses, chariots, ships, archers, catapults. It was a lot of work, but with a mixed use between Macros, cell formulas, and iterative calculations, IT WORKED and WE LOVED IT.

    My programming experience is minimal (Excel +macros, Arduino, Cbasic C++) and this (along with the interconnect economic model) was certainly my biggest masterpiece, why can't Nordeus do it with only 22 players with only 15 skills each, who are playing in a much simpler environment (4 weather conditions in a stadium) that can be programmed with a team of professional programmers?

    Objections I already can hear:
    1) Too much processing power needed. True, this will take more processing power, however, rather than playing thousands of games between 2 abandoned teams, why not just do a one time calculation that will determine the finals score plus cards and injuries for teams that haven't been visited by a manager for at least one complete season. There is no point to simulating a game no one is caring about
    2) This will change the game too much for the veterans. Also true and probably the reason it will never happen. However, after adapting tactics, they will certainly love the additional control and new level of ingenuity that can be exercised.

    I know Nordeus will never do this, but to some soccer fanatic, programming entrepreneur this is an idea how to make an awesome soccer manager game. I will continue to play this game as it is most definitely the best soccer manager game out there now (credits to the Nordeus team), but I kinda just get very disappointed when I read about and observe these random ON-OFFs in a game simulation and that individual skills don't matter (GRRRRRRRRR). Yes, I did get very upset when I read and observed the later. It is still a sore spot especially after 8 seasons of perfecting training drills which apparently was just a waste of time.

    Okay, I'm done now. See you in the game

  8. #8
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvincibleGinger FC View Post
    This programming scheme is starting to get on my nerves after 11 seasons. Especially with the new assistant notes since I used to go off of the old notes like "They passed the ball around us to easily" or "We need to be more aggressive on the ball" or other notes like that that would kind of tell me what happened between the animations. Addressing these issues in training and skills seemed to have worked despite many people saying the program doesn't work that way. Before higher levels forced me to change my game, I used to play in that manner, but now I am increasingly finding myself trying to guess and trick the internal programming in the software. What I don't get is why can't we model soccer games with all 22 players and all white skills corresponding to the position the player is placed in. This would make it so much more about managing a soccer team again than about try to work the simplistic programming.

    Making a more intricate simulation like that is very, very possible. When me and my brother played a lot of Medieval Lego battles, we always had the issue of biased battles. So I programmed on fricken Excel (yeah I know) program where each Kingdom could create regiments, with specific battle orders, from their army which typically sized between 15 and 30 heavy infantry and some 30 civilians in the civilian militia. Among all 8 kingdoms each soldier was registered with a skill set (very much inspired by Top Eleven) that was unique to each individual much like this game. There were 27 battle skills and some 40 civilian skills like sewing which was used for the economic simulation we already had in place at that time. The 27 battles skills accounted for a few general skills like strength along with specific skills like sword fighting, spear fighting, etc. Each soldier through training had skills to operate specific weapons exceptionally well which had specific battle characteristics described through potency, blocking, agility, weight, and some more factors. The kings/generals could then assign formations along with mentalities (also Top Eleven inspired) that would determine how the players arrange themselves on the field, filling-in/pull back wounded/killed allies, and stage themselves to fill gaps. The resulting positions and casualties of each iteration were shown on a graphic (Conditional formation, yeah that was a lot of work) that allowed us to know where our guys had to go for the next move. Yes, this also accounted for buildings, rivers, elevations, horses, chariots, ships, archers, catapults. It was a lot of work, but with a mixed use between Macros, cell formulas, and iterative calculations, IT WORKED and WE LOVED IT.

    My programming experience is minimal (Excel +macros, Arduino, Cbasic C++) and this (along with the interconnect economic model) was certainly my biggest masterpiece, why can't Nordeus do it with only 22 players with only 15 skills each, who are playing in a much simpler environment (4 weather conditions in a stadium) that can be programmed with a team of professional programmers?

    Objections I already can hear:
    1) Too much processing power needed. True, this will take more processing power, however, rather than playing thousands of games between 2 abandoned teams, why not just do a one time calculation that will determine the finals score plus cards and injuries for teams that haven't been visited by a manager for at least one complete season. There is no point to simulating a game no one is caring about
    2) This will change the game too much for the veterans. Also true and probably the reason it will never happen. However, after adapting tactics, they will certainly love the additional control and new level of ingenuity that can be exercised.

    I know Nordeus will never do this, but to some soccer fanatic, programming entrepreneur this is an idea how to make an awesome soccer manager game. I will continue to play this game as it is most definitely the best soccer manager game out there now (credits to the Nordeus team), but I kinda just get very disappointed when I read about and observe these random ON-OFFs in a game simulation and that individual skills don't matter (GRRRRRRRRR). Yes, I did get very upset when I read and observed the later. It is still a sore spot especially after 8 seasons of perfecting training drills which apparently was just a waste of time.

    Okay, I'm done now. See you in the game
    Mother of god, ignore the assistant lol and read me a bit, the game works in a simplistic way in reality.

  9. #9
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    Apr 2021
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    Position bar means nothing.its simulation game already.can tell wat you want but nothing is important anymore.its everything predicted.all results already known when kickoff starts.

  10. #10
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    And another interesting fact.watching game thorough different account ,leading and when you connecting to game almost always getting goal.

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