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Thread: What is wrong

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hejst View Post
    Very interesting things in this thread. I have one question though. Let's assume I have a very strong key player as my left winger (which I do) and at the moment he is 30 yo. I also have two other strong key players, both a bit shadowed by this aml. Still they all score more than 1 goal per game.

    That aml will play easily a couple more seasons, maybe until he retires. I haven't trained him in a long long time, but due to a constant scoring titles and motm nominations he is still over 130%. Anyway, there will be a time I have to replace him.

    The question is, is it better to sell the old player first, so the role he is carrying is released and the new player can acquire it? Because if I understood this correctly, if I get the replacement first and then sell the old star, this new guy can never get that star role?

    Edit: For example, I have good team at the moment, but I have planned three changes for the next season. I was thinking of changing both fullbacks and one MC. DL is coming from the academy (I'm still very unsure about academy players), but both DR and MC I have already bought from the market. So now what I mean is will there be some potential wasted as I buy these replacements so early on? They will get to starting XI next season and the old players will be sold this season. Should I buy those replacements only after I have sold the players they are replacing?

    Ok, I have another question. Is there some kind of limit for good ratings? My three frontmen are constantly getting those 9s and 10s, but is it realistic to think, that I could have all of my team having at least 8s? Or can I assume that because my attackers are taking all the good ratings, it's ok that my mc's get mostly 7s?
    That is how I understand it as well although I haven't tried it out yet in that way. @khris can give a good answer on this.

  2. #82
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hejst View Post
    Very interesting things in this thread. I have one question though. Let's assume I have a very strong key player as my left winger (which I do) and at the moment he is 30 yo. I also have two other strong key players, both a bit shadowed by this aml. Still they all score more than 1 goal per game.

    That aml will play easily a couple more seasons, maybe until he retires. I haven't trained him in a long long time, but due to a constant scoring titles and motm nominations he is still over 130%. Anyway, there will be a time I have to replace him.

    The question is, is it better to sell the old player first, so the role he is carrying is released and the new player can acquire it? Because if I understood this correctly, if I get the replacement first and then sell the old star, this new guy can never get that star role?

    Edit: For example, I have good team at the moment, but I have planned three changes for the next season. I was thinking of changing both fullbacks and one MC. DL is coming from the academy (I'm still very unsure about academy players), but both DR and MC I have already bought from the market. So now what I mean is will there be some potential wasted as I buy these replacements so early on? They will get to starting XI next season and the old players will be sold this season. Should I buy those replacements only after I have sold the players they are replacing?

    Ok, I have another question. Is there some kind of limit for good ratings? My three frontmen are constantly getting those 9s and 10s, but is it realistic to think, that I could have all of my team having at least 8s? Or can I assume that because my attackers are taking all the good ratings, it's ok that my mc's get mostly 7s?
    I recommend you, to sell first, and then buy. You and anyone else can test this by their side btw, and really, as a manager who kept payers till retirement, thats what I recommend you.
    You can try to check out what happens, at some point is the experience that allow you to know the margins that the game have, if you can have 1,2,3 4 important players, but for sure, you cant just go to negotiations, and buy 10 players who scored 40 goals each the last season, and expect the same, because the engine will calibrate all these roles.
    Thats why its so important to test the players and know each ones potential.

    Regarding ratings, if you know a bit about the simulation process you can understand what happens and what could happen.
    First, as the game assign internal roles, limited, this is conditioning the ratings, ofc. Rarely, even facing a full 1* team you will earn more than x4-5 10's no?
    so this tell you something.
    So, the game assign roles, then, each player have a ratings behavior, a key player can reach Max ratings (as said 9 or 10 are the same) for, X period.
    This means that some players can keep a 9/19 for 2... or 3 games ina row... others, 1-2 ,,, and contributive players, that may help you randomly are like 68686 so this is what creates a particular scenario, the availability of players that will be determinant to resolve a scenario.
    Then, once the game starts, based on previous ratings, theres a team simplification, so the team list is reduced and only 6-7 players are set to determine the match.
    This means that if you have like, 2 known key players, maybe one, will not participate, so will be hidden, and this means that probably, to unlock the score you'll need to focuss passing in the other side, or change mentality depending on the selected pre-players.
    Thats why I say that counter formations doesnt exist, because as the game works per lists, so filling animations depending on the rating variations by creating 2 lists mainly, 1 for attack scenes and 1 for defense, all depend on these variations, and the players selected to determine a game, and, the 2 lists.
    Basically this game dont simulate the defensive style of playing, as all settings exist to give you the bar control so, bar control = attacking chances (with any of the mentalities, even very defensive can give you the attack chances, and hard attacking, doesnt eliminate the defense list) = goal possibilities.

    If you understand the process, you will see that what you say here:
    "but is it realistic to think, that I could have all of my team having at least 8s? Or can I assume that because my attackers are taking all the good ratings, it's ok that my mc's get mostly 7s?"

    For the own game nature, which discards players to create different scenarios, with different determinant players in every match, is not posible to get all players with +8's or , lets say "lineal" and "proportional ratings", because the engine never does a proportional simulation, nor even is facing teams in a 1vs1 tactical way exactly.


    As always, the bar is the key. it tells you the chances stats. Then understand that the matches can be affected by many factors, but in each one, a scenario is created by selecting few factors to determine the score (condition, morale, win bonus... etc of factors) and these factors + settings are like in on/off + alternating players to determine the score, by reading the game like this you can, at the 20' of the match, read the scenario (by looking at the game stats, some ratings, possession bar + report info like effectivity %), and know what to do and how to proceed.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by minvis80 View Post
    And if more,i know its nothing to do with reality,just game but when everything's predicted and predetermined its annoying.you want to make some impact on game but here you cant.now already high white skills are not making any difference.you dont need to be active to win everything,dont need to train players or change tactics.if nordeus will let you will win.for example team never attended game,no trainings one word not active, winning against active managers, better teams and still going for quadruple.players every season in topscorer,never changed tactics.so where is all importance what everyone talking about.
    This is just false. I'm on a level 55 now. First 30 or so levels I was pretty convinced, that the tactics in this game are mostly cosmetic, but I never thought that the games were predetermined or whatever. You can actually see how the possession bar moves when you do changes in the middle of the game. Okay, that actually doesn't mean anything yet, but when you find those right tactics, you also see results. Not everytime, but most of the time.

    I think most managers who think that the tactics and formations and whatever are just cosmetic, are kind of managers I used be those first 30 levels. My style was to mimic real life football, but then I realised that this isn't real life football. Best results do not come with you creating a permanent formation and real life tactics to go with it. No Sir. You have to adapt your formations and tactics to every opponent.

    That being said, you CAN use mostly same tactics and formations, but that's because most managers use the same formations and tactics all the time. From time to time you meet better managers who make you play the game.

    So first you check your opponent formation and adapt your own to that. For example, I tend to use AMC only if the opponent does not have a DMC. I never use two strikers, because I don't have two strikers, but if I would, I would only use them against single DC. If opponent has strong wings, I put three MC's and attack through middle and so on. You get the picture.

    Then you throw in some kind of tactics to go with that. If the enemy has DMC, I go with short passes. If not, I use mixed. If the enemy has weak wings, attack both flanks. If there is a bad player either flank, attack there.

    Now when the game starts, the possession bar is important indicator how you are doing. I think you should get it somewhere between 65-70% at least to be fairly confident on your victory. If it's not, you should do something. Of course you can win with less possession, but then things tend to be a little more exciting. You can just try different tactics and check if they work. You should be aware though, that some changes might go against you, and when they do, you should change them back immediately.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    I recommend you, to sell first, and then buy. You and anyone else can test this by their side btw, and really, as a manager who kept payers till retirement, thats what I recommend you.
    You can try to check out what happens, at some point is the experience that allow you to know the margins that the game have, if you can have 1,2,3 4 important players, but for sure, you cant just go to negotiations, and buy 10 players who scored 40 goals each the last season, and expect the same, because the engine will calibrate all these roles.
    Thats why its so important to test the players and know each ones potential.

    Regarding ratings, if you know a bit about the simulation process you can understand what happens and what could happen.
    First, as the game assign internal roles, limited, this is conditioning the ratings, ofc. Rarely, even facing a full 1* team you will earn more than x4-5 10's no?
    so this tell you something.
    So, the game assign roles, then, each player have a ratings behavior, a key player can reach Max ratings (as said 9 or 10 are the same) for, X period.
    This means that some players can keep a 9/19 for 2... or 3 games ina row... others, 1-2 ,,, and contributive players, that may help you randomly are like 68686 so this is what creates a particular scenario, the availability of players that will be determinant to resolve a scenario.
    Then, once the game starts, based on previous ratings, theres a team simplification, so the team list is reduced and only 6-7 players are set to determine the match.
    This means that if you have like, 2 known key players, maybe one, will not participate, so will be hidden, and this means that probably, to unlock the score you'll need to focuss passing in the other side, or change mentality depending on the selected pre-players.
    Thats why I say that counter formations doesnt exist, because as the game works per lists, so filling animations depending on the rating variations by creating 2 lists mainly, 1 for attack scenes and 1 for defense, all depend on these variations, and the players selected to determine a game, and, the 2 lists.
    Basically this game dont simulate the defensive style of playing, as all settings exist to give you the bar control so, bar control = attacking chances (with any of the mentalities, even very defensive can give you the attack chances, and hard attacking, doesnt eliminate the defense list) = goal possibilities.

    If you understand the process, you will see that what you say here:
    "but is it realistic to think, that I could have all of my team having at least 8s? Or can I assume that because my attackers are taking all the good ratings, it's ok that my mc's get mostly 7s?"

    For the own game nature, which discards players to create different scenarios, with different determinant players in every match, is not posible to get all players with +8's or , lets say "lineal" and "proportional ratings", because the engine never does a proportional simulation, nor even is facing teams in a 1vs1 tactical way exactly.


    As always, the bar is the key. it tells you the chances stats. Then understand that the matches can be affected by many factors, but in each one, a scenario is created by selecting few factors to determine the score (condition, morale, win bonus... etc of factors) and these factors + settings are like in on/off + alternating players to determine the score, by reading the game like this you can, at the 20' of the match, read the scenario (by looking at the game stats, some ratings, possession bar + report info like effectivity %), and know what to do and how to proceed.
    In my experience, counter formations work really well and there are certain formations that do better against my standard game play than others. I change my formation according to my opponent if of significant strength. However, I have noticed that sometimes the "ideal" counter formation isn't usually the best answer because certain player seem to perform best in a certain position (even when trained for multiple zones). With players that have 1% gray skills, it does seem to me that they play really well in a position or 2, but lack in other positions even in zones they have been trained for. I think formation may affect how the lists are made.

  5. #85
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvincibleGinger FC View Post
    In my experience, counter formations work really well and there are certain formations that do better against my standard game play than others. I change my formation according to my opponent if of significant strength. However, I have noticed that sometimes the "ideal" counter formation isn't usually the best answer because certain player seem to perform best in a certain position (even when trained for multiple zones). With players that have 1% gray skills, it does seem to me that they play really well in a position or 2, but lack in other positions even in zones they have been trained for. I think formation may affect how the lists are made.
    Lists are filled, depending on the players position, basically, and then depending on the internal domination power, they get more animation slots, or less, meaning that a player with high dominance power but low contributive power, can take 15 slots inside a live match just to miss, covering others cause his dominance power.

    The game, will always do these 2 lists independently of the formation you use to play, even if you set a line as formation, the game needs this info to do the simulation.Then yellow alerts are 1% BP punishment and 2% punishment for the red, and basically, the engine needs to unlock animations, requiring a player in certain zone to score all alone or, a assistant in certain place to allow the goal.

    And with "counters" I mean fixed counters, this is well proven after 11 years really... it would be so obvious if X win Y 70% of times... but as the internal roles are spread differently in each team, and each team have players with different Dominant Power, this determines the team playingstyle behaviour, and ofc. at some point depending on this config. it sets somehow a fixed requeriment that is needed to control the games, but there is a margin really... and 1-2 yellow alerts could even benefit you.

    We have managers playing without STs, with 1* MCs in FAs... with 1DC and 5MCs/R/L--4AMC'S/R/L just earching for the right settings in each game and playing with the arrows, so, at some point, all this is way more simple than what it seems. The game doesnt have a super tactical simulator, just fills lists based in variations and pre-determined parameters, and yeah, you can affect them... when I manipulate ratings to obtain a push at certain match, thats what I do.

  6. #86
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    Thanks for your answer, pretty much what I expected. Meanwhile I had a league game that I won 4-0 and all but three players had ratings over 8. And the trio had 7.2, 7.7 and 7.7. I think that's pretty close the best I can do ratingwise
    khris likes this.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    I recommend you, to sell first, and then buy. You and anyone else can test this by their side btw, and really, as a manager who kept payers till retirement, thats what I recommend you.
    Okay. I'm gonna test it for you. First thing i sold 5 sub. players ( 3 players were attackers as ST) from my squad and then i've signed with new player who is a FT. We'll see how he will fill the team slots.

    What is wrong-20210519_225822.jpg
    What is wrong-20210519_225943.jpg
    Der_Ryan_M likes this.

  8. #88
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaiKo View Post
    Okay. I'm gonna test it for you. First thing i sold 5 sub. players ( 3 players were attackers as ST) from my squad and then i've signed with new player who is a FT. We'll see how he will fill the team slots.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Npw what yopu do is a friendly vs a 1* team, to oversize the internal programming. Once you sack old players with key roles assigned, the options to get a good role assigned in a new player increase.
    This allow you to discard easy, because discard players that don't convince you is part of the job, or, for example, if you see am aggressive role assigned to a player, you keep him as reserve so when you go to the market for a different option, you're preventing the assignation of that role.
    Think that this have a margin, each role basically covers needed animations, so too depend on the dominance power assigned, but you can count that mainly in a obvious defined role you can have between 2-5 important players (those who assist, score, aggressive, in defensive animations etc and the) Its a bit like a imprecise formula but by testing you can spot your team combination.

  9. #89
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    First i thout that tactics works, possession bar shows your advantage,but last two seasons i was checking what is importance.and found nothing.possession means nothing,weather conditions just to make you spend more rests,tactics nothing in not important game made team 14% against 120% and lost 1-0 only with players in wrong positions.already in 20 first minutes you can see where game is going.red cards makes your or opponent team play better,if about dmc stopping amc so its illiusion,no dmc stooped my amc and i always playing strikerless.so its just imagination in your head that you found right tactic or made good change.even your player in defence plays **** it didnt means that you sub him and will be better.most cases a sub is playing almost same rating like one you substituted.same for all positions.its illiusion.and im not newbie in this game.you can see now how after so many complains of loosers that they cant beat tankers or godd trained teams with mutants nordeus adjusted favorites status to 30% for reason not to complain if you lost to **** team.real players knows that activeness or anything else doesn't make any impact on game.all controlled by nordeus but i dont care i know like many of us that money makes most now in this game.now even worth almost nothing to have players with very high white skills,**** trainer from academy can easily overperform him.its okay somtimes when weak team beats strong,but now its happening too much expecialy having all possession,passing,shots on target and still loosing with unreal result.easiest way of winning everything its keeping your team no higher than 110% in season start but if you keep your team 140% or over you will see what will be without spending money.

  10. #90
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    Nowdays i see that a lot of players plays with all players on one wing and only 1 on another. And they rarely loose with this setup. Is it some king of another glitch in the game?

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