@Nudo74
of course, abilities are cosmeticsQuote:
So based on this little test it looks like condition loss is not affected by fitness level. Though I would think it would be.
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@Nudo74
of course, abilities are cosmeticsQuote:
So based on this little test it looks like condition loss is not affected by fitness level. Though I would think it would be.
Quick question but I can't find the answer anywhere here. If I want to power train a player, do I have to have others train with him? So if I have an 18 year old I have identified as a potential all star can I train him by himself or do I have to have some other random players go as well?
it's somewhere here in this post :p
no, there is no reason to add other players.
The only "negative" is that you won't get any of the four daily bonus if training only one player.
But if you already got them (this 10%) , it's ok.
My team is set up with fist team line up, few subs, and investments for the rest, young trainers with quality too low for most matches.
I will identify a skill or 2 that I would like to improve in a young first string player (young and expected to play important first string role for more seasons) and set up the drill regiment just for him. Then I add young investment characters to train with him to fill the training bonuses.
I do this instead of running my main 11 through many drills that don't specifically improve their individual balance. But I also assume individual skills can make an impact, which is unproven.
Excellent, thanks for the input. I always have my 10% daily bonus going strong in all areas and I've collected almost 300 green packs so I was going to start making use of them.
Great feedback!
Remember that, assuming you advance a level, players will all drop 1 star. Knowing that each star = less gains from training, the early part of the season can be a good time to invest rest packs into your team.
Say you've got your league title won, or know you'll be top 4 no matter what, you can stop investing late in the season, let bonus or pregame condition slack a bit too save for start of next season.
If someone asked and/or answered please ignore it, but i have to ask u guys!
What if i powertrain my player in OLD version, he gets his cones and after i log out and relog into NEW version? What will happen? All "cones" goes equally to important (white highlighted) / not important (greyed out) skills??? ooor my player gains more "cones" in white skills and less gain in greyed out skills??? (like AI Svanberg observed in earlier post?)
edit: furthermore! I would like to know if i having mostly world class drills in condition section and mostly 3 whistles in attack and defense... Is this kind of mixed training mode viable in long term or not?)
Thanks a lot! :)
:o
How you advance your training drills should be individual. We know some managers like @Khris prefer to train physical skills, while others will focus on attack or defense. Some 90 training levels and they'll all be world class however you approach it.
I am not 100% on it, but I think you can "assign" skill points gained in old version by just running any drill in the new version. Like for example, lets say that a player has 1 skill point not assigned in the old version. I believe that if you run a Pass-Go-Shoot drill in the new version, the player will gain like 2% speed, 1% passing, 1% shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabez Teh
Sorry if I missed it but did you test the effect of goalkeeping training on non-goalkeepers? I would be interested in the results as this would determine whether you should include goalkeepers in a general training session or train them separately or drop the goalkeeping practice from your general training session.
There's no point to train field players with the drill GK training, it doesn't contain skills for them. But almost every other drill contains skills for goalkeepers. The only 4 exceptions are: Press the play, Use your head, Stop the attacker and Hurdle jumps. These drills are useless for goalkeepers. So if you are adding GKs to your FPs' drill schedule, avoid these 5 drills, and you'll be more or less OK. This schedule probably won't be optimal though.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Savage_1
You can also check the table in my next post below to see what drills are suitable for GKs.
I found Phy drills are really good for GK, it's kind of one stone 2 birds :D
That's an illusion, because there are grey skills for GK as well as white. So grey skills are getting penalty while white skills from these drills are getting bonuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by ibangali
The bad thing: you can't cover all the skills only by physical&mental. Anticipation, Punching and Aerial reach will be left out. Another bad thing: you're leveling grey skills that have little (if any) impact on GKs performance. You actually are wasting some experience by doing it. So no, unfortunately, it's not a good idea to train your GKs with P&M. One or two in your GK training schedule would be enough or maybe even that amount would be too much.
Check the table (all drills are lvl1):
Attachment 72951
Numbers are experience (Condition loss points to be exact) that skills are getting from drills.
As for me, the only P&M drill I use in my GK training schedule is Sprint. And I never train the whole team for... well, training. Only for bonuses for which I use Very Easy schedule: 2x Warm-up, 2x Video analysis, 2x Skill Drill.
After I get daily bonuses, I train each player only individually with optimal (I hope ::) schedule I made only for him.
So far I know, using old version, gain skill point and without adding or assigning those points if you login to new version then those skill points won't stay or save for later use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabez Teh
Yes, it's obvious not to train your outfield players (alone) with GK training. However, if you were lazy (like me) and want to minimise the number of training sessions required and therefore wish to sometimes train all your players at once (with a mix of attack, defense & physical), is there a wastage on your outfield players by including GK training in the mix or does the game recognise it's a waste and allocate that part of the session somewhere else for the outfielders?Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxcatl
I do realise I can train GKs with everybody else and they will still make gains but due to all the wasted gains in creativity, aggression, etc I would ideally like to throw in a GK training if it didn't penalise the outfielders. I have done it a bit already, without analysing the results, but I did notice that GKs will still make gains in creativity, aggression, etc and not necessarily in the GK training skills.
I disagree with most of these last few posts about GK Training.
These opinions 1) don't acknowledge the possibilities of mixing GK Training for outfield players. Al's research doesn't indicate that overall skill point is lost using GK Training or other "grey" skill training, just that skill distribution for each position can be manipulated and tuned using "grey" and "white" skill training. Think this is being misinterpreted.
Bigger concern is 2) making unfounded assumptions about the importance of grey/white/ and overall skill balance and development.
There is no way to prove, right now, that a GK with high creativity isn't more effective at using his kicking skill to start a counterattack. Or that speed isn't also used in calculating saves that factor reflexes as well. An AMC might not shoot from as far or as powerfully as his greyed out strength declines. These mechanics and calculations are unknown to use, and Al has put in a lot of effort to keep things facts-based here.
I played against a team whose ML/ AML was the biggest goal threat, but his defense grey skills were below 10%, besides positioning. So, Dick's passing up that lane and walk by him all match. Manager let him become balanced to have negligible defending skills
I wrote an "you are wrong" post but then made a few test and... you know, you actually are right here!Quote:
Originally Posted by LeManiaque
I made 6-8 trainings [6x GK Training] on a field player and after that gave him one Slalom Dribble (all skills are white), and he got PLENTY skill points. So that means the experience is never lost, but stored to be distributed later when there's a chance.
I was wrong about GK Training and field players, it's not pointless to include this drill along with GKs to a mass training. Thanks!
Well, these four skills are grey for a GK. I don't believe leveling them is a wise thing to do. Because even if they're in use (they might be, but we'll never know), they're not as important as white skills. Otherwise they would be highlighted too. So if you're going hardcore, I think they should be avoided - it's better to have +1% in a highlighted attribute than in a grey one.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeManiaque
Al started a great discussion for all of us managers.!
I wonder how the GK skills pay off for outfield players. Like, is there a limit? Or a penalty, lowering the TEF when they are applied? A few more details to sort out before we know how best to use GK Training. I do think it's a good drill to advance, because oh this effect.
Attachment 73974
Hi guys!
I have updated the OP with this table, now with TEF for a 23 y/o FT. I recon its the same for a 22 y/o, and probably 24 y/o too. But I am not sure. Anyone have any input on this?
As you can see, it get really really expensive to push a 21< y/o from 7 to 8 stars. As a one time cost, its cheaper than taking a 18 y/o 99%, but you have to do it at that cost every season for a while.
The numbers are fairly good, maybe a decimal could be moved here and there if the data was bigger but not by much.
I want to test some budgeting scenarios, since we can basically equate green packs to total skill addition per season. It's just up to us to manage how they distribute. Is there team always better with 1 player of 7 stars at age 25 because he was great before, or to have 3 young players at 5 stars, manipulating their skill balance... Multi season development.
my view (as a non-spender) is all or nothing... target one or two 18yo FT then build them up and keep using greens on them (assuming they perform of course). IMO better to continue using greens on the 7 star 25yo who will still stay in your team for a number of seasons than waste them on the three young 5 stars.
sure, the young players will gain much more from each green but what's the point if they'll be gone by the end of their first contract, probably earlier, and replaced by some newer version of themselves?
i have a 27yo 7 star who is still my best, or at worst equal best player, who has played over 400 games now. i have only just stopped/dramatically reduced in the last season or two feeding him greens. that's largely in part to finally finding another 95%+ FT 18yo at the start of a season a couple of seasons ago. he's now 7.5 stars at 20 and i feed him instead. the rest basically get nothing unless required due to scheduling.
i would also add don't be afraid to stockpile your greens until you find the right player. no point wasting them on someone who will be trasferred in a season or two. find the right player and look after them and you'll have them as the backbone of your team for 10+ seasons (all without spending a cent).
Why do you want to sell an 18 y/o 5* FT player and replace him with.. ahem... some newer version of himself?Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Savage_1
Buy three guys like this at the start of the season, feed them all you have, buy the next three at the start of the next season, feed them up... Four seasons, and you have a young FT-team. And also this is the time you need to replace those first three guys, because they're getting old.
It's very unefficient to spend your greens on old players. Train them while they're young, forget about 22+ y/o mastodons. You are wasting packs training them. Or do I miss something here?
Firstly, I'm a non-spender. I have never bought tokens, green packs, etc. My post was aimed at similar players, not at people who spend to buy scouts, train SA, new positions, power train, etc. I don't have the money or time for that. Until this season, I have barely watched videos because it just wasn't worth my time for green packs and there were so few for tokens. Fortunately, this season I have found where all the token videos for my country were hiding so I finally have amassed some tokens and might buy my first ever scout, negotiation, etc next season.
As to the rationale of my dedicating greens to older 7*... for starters it's difficult to find/get 18yo high 5* FT, especially at the start of the season (they are in demand!). In the last ten seasons or so, I have only been able to identify and win the auction for two such players that have performed well (often these players stink early in their careers. some come good, some don't). no point wasting my few resources on them. i save them for the rare mix of young, FT, performers. So I buy as best I can at the start of the season.
My team is always 6* by mid-season, however it is rare that any of my team will reach 7* by the end of the season. therefore at the beginning of the new season it is usually better to replace most of the squad with new players obtained from the transfer market who are as close to 99% as possible, young, have good stats, SA if i'm lucky, etc.
I currently only have 3 players who have played over 100 games (despite going deep in CL and cup every year) - the two FT I mentioned in my original post and one non-FT who is a good performer who (sadly) will probably be a reserve next year because he's only 104% now and will be 23 next year so he'll be a long way behind the rest of the team in quality and won't train well enough to keep up.
Given the above, to me it is better to use greens on a 25yo 7* than a young 5* because for my squad the 25yo 7* will still be good enough to be in my team in a couple of seasons whereas the young 5* will almost certainly not. Plus, the 25yo 7* is a proven performer (or they wouldn't be there) and the young 5* is an unknown. Therefore, notwithstanding that the individual gain for each green is greater on the young 5*, I would rather use it on the 25yo 7* as the long term benefit is greater.
Please note the question posed that I was responding to did not state the three young 5* were FT, it just said young 5* (plus 5* could mean anywhere from 80 to 99%). Further, I would not have a 25yo in my team at all unless they were a high quality FT, otherwise it would have been impossible to keep up and still be in the team by the time they were 25. I can tell you from first hand experience that 25yo FT, even at 6/7* still train OK. It was only at 26, moreso 27, that I noticed the training starting to drop off significantly (not that I looked at or kept any data, just casual observation). At 22 to 24, he trained fine and got up to 8*.
To summarise (a very long post sorry), I full well acknowledge training older players is "inefficient", that doesn't mean it's not more beneficial than training a younger player. My goal is to train whoever is going to be in my team the longest from then on, sometimes that will be an older player. Obviously, ideally it would be a young FT (which is what I'm currently doing), but it wasn't for a number of seasons prior.
I think age and quality aren't the only factors and agree one strategy for a competitive team is advance the players who are consistent performers in their roles.
2 lowest quality players on my team are doing best this season, despite age difference.
Attachment 74138
Attachment 74139
Yesterday I had 2 older players gain a star during a training session when they weren't awarded a "+1" to any single skill. I think this is a good indication that the "bucket theory" is possible. Fractions are used behind the scenes.
Ok, there are few days now, when I set the team (all players 21-22) in a six-pack of the easy/very easy drills of 3 categories (-,75 condition loss) , I also get the X2 bonus, but the team cannot fill the 10% of Attack and Defense bonus. \
It needs a little more.
Weird with this pack of drills and the X2 I could get the 10% in all categories.
(I 'm talking about two active teams I have, not only one).
Anyone else ?
On my main team, I use 10 players for first season, 9 players for rest 3 seasons, most of them are my low star sub (2/3 positions), first season easy+very easy (6.75% condition) with 2x video, second season without video, procession 10% full, third season without video 10% condition full but attack and defence bonus very little left for fourth season, on fourth season I usually use warm up + FCA + PGS (6% condition), all done, only one video, total 26.25% condition loss but if I use 2x video on second season then I don't need third season but still I need to do that 6% condition season to complete tiny bit attack+def bonus to complete.
On my second team, I don't use 2x video but it need 4 season of 6.75% condition training and one 6% (5th season) training to complete all 10% bonus.
I think it's been last 2 season that training season cannot fill the 10% of attack and defense bonus, which goes for fourth season.
yes i do that too to stay at 10% on all four the two lowest in each category 6 drills in all ran 3,4 times with training bonus but latley its stopped giivennme them on both my teams support said better u do less you get basically no piont in bonuses if your not gona max them
same here .2 trainings with 2x and then a little is missing so a 3 is neededQuote:
Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos
so it isn't something wrong in my roster.
Probably they reduced the gaining ?
The teamwork bonuses are... fickle.
Running drills of medium, hard difficulty doesn't provide good bonus despite taking more condition. Even if it's not just 1:1 condition for bonus, I wish harder drills didn't seem to be penalized.
Getting a bit away from the topic.
One of my young stars turned 22 this season, and i for sure noted a big dip in training gains.
When is the next dip? That's probably when i have to replace him... 25?
I'd replace him in the beginning of the next season. But if you have 3 older players, I'd replace them instead, and this one would play for another season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shire
There is some mention of 21-24 as the next age bracket, but that's anecdotal and old. In a few months I imagine Al will have good data for learning rate, TEF, over ages. He probably has a guess at this point.
Anecdotally, I have players over 25 who can pick up 3 skill % in a session. My MoM last match is 26, my best player this season is my oldest, 27. Some say 18-19 rate erratically, some say GK are best older, or ratings stabilize. I think the distribution of skill points after a match reinforces the skills that each player used in the match (while our training drills might throw off their balance. Perhaps explaining why fast training doesn't always mean better results.)
it's 18-21 y.o. (the same)
22-23
24-25
26-27
dropping about 15-20 % every time
Yeah, I've heard a theory that a player gets what he uses, and uses what he... well, prefer. That means if you have, let's say, a young MC who's getting more attacking skills than defending, you should train him to AMC position and he will perform there better.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeManiaque
I can't say how much truth is in this theory, I'd like to hear your comments. I'm thinking abount trying it on my fresh FTs next season. I am going to write down their skills, let them play for a week or two, decide what positions they "want" and after I train them to the new positions it will be possible to compare ratings on the old and new positions.
Hi, AlQuote:
Originally Posted by Al Svanberg
Question please:
My 7* (120-130%) 21 yo players gaining skill very very slow, like if I do training, 24% condition loss with world class drill, some time they gaining 1-2% skills, some time none, also when playing a match they gaining same as training season. If you like I can bring some screenshot too. Is that the right gaining ratio on their age and lvl please? As I understand your data, For 15% condition loss they should gain 2.1% but make me confuse when they gain none...
even I have one 9T reco. scout DC+DL+DR with wall, he is now 22 yo, he is not playing with main team so some time I use his 48% condition and he gain zero :(
Second question, on next season when manager lvl up they will loss one start (20-25% I think), so they will be 22yo 6* (100-110% I guess), in that case, their TEF will be 0.12 or 0.09 please.
Thanks
It is 20%. And strictly speaking, players don't lose anything, the mechanics is different.Quote:
Originally Posted by ibangali
Here's one of my previous messages, just FYI:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxcatl
Thanks Toxcatl.
Tomorrow I'm going to file up 15 screenshots of my players skills and will try to see if I can bring back same skill which they going to lose. Specially I love my GK & ST :)
GK average 8 rating n ST 39 gaols so far in 25 league matches
A really impressive OP and a lot of useful information all through the thread!
Thanks to everybody contributing from a level 3 manager, who wants to go deeper in the game.
I've just bought three fast trainers to see where I can take them.
One first question: If a drill doesn't cover any of the highlighted skills of a player, better not use it on his training?
I've been reading about GK training on non GK's, and it seems that the effect of this training is delayed till the next effective training for the player. Or am I wrong?
