Training and Counter-Formation Tutorial

[Kameltreiber]

What what you suggest against a better Team which is playing
3W (DR DC DL) -2(DMC DMC)-2(MC MC)-3(ST ST ST)? Thanks.

[sdw]

You suggest 4-3-2-1 as an option to counter 4-4-2 standard, but I only have 1 AMC, so what about a 4-3-1-2, which would be just replacing the DMC in a 4-1-2-1-2 for another MC. (DL, DC, DC, DR, MC, MC, MC, AMC, ST, ST).
I used 4-1-2-1-2 to counter this 4-2-2 in the cup against a 2pt lower team (23.9 vs 21.4) and got a 2-2 tie at home which is a pretty bad result for the second leg away. So that's why I'm looking for a smoother solution.

So, in the end, would a 4-3-2-1 be better than 4-1-2-1-2? I think so since you suggest that there's no need for a DMC if he uses no AMC, and replacing it for another MC should strengthen the midfield where he is using 4 guys, so that would be just 1 down. What do you guys think?

4-3-2-1 is effective according to most of players,but according to me.Yes,4-3-1-2 is effective against 4-4-2 cuz you stop his flang,and you have AMC instead his absense of DMC...But this 4-3-1-2 with ML and MR... I dont have experience with 4-3N-1-2(with three MC's) against 4-4-2,but I think is not so good,cuz he will attack you from the flanks.Conclusion : you dont need DMC,you need to stop his flanks and attack him with AMC with mixed passes.It will be good with attacking thru the middle,but in this game this type attack is not so effective and it's pity.

[sdw]

what do u think to counter 5-4-1...??

4-5-1 V style or 4-4-1-1

[sdw]

What what you suggest against a better Team which is playing
3W (DR DC DL) -2(DMC DMC)-2(MC MC)-3(ST ST ST)? Thanks.

It depends how he uses the arrows .I think he uses red arrows on his MC's.He has two DMC's,so he will stop your AML/AMR/AMC very easy.Your purpose is to beat his center to gain ball posession and stop his counter-attacks cuz he has a lot of strikers.I'll be honest,for three years I never see such as formation but I think this is the purpose,beat him with 3-5-2.

[FRANNY FC]

great thread my friend! i was wondering what you did when u had problems with your 4-5v-1 formation when playing 4-3n-1-2,whats the alternative counter formation?

[Fazil]

Hi sdw
Need your suggestion for counter two formations,

4-1-2MC-2AMC-1ST,, I played 3-1-3-2AMR/AML-1ST made a draw away match.
4-3MC-1AML-2ST I Played 5-2MC-2AML/AMR-1ST because of injuries Lost 3-2 away match.

[Kameltreiber]

It depends how he uses the arrows .I think he uses red arrows on his MC's.He has two DMC's,so he will stop your AML/AMR/AMC very easy.Your purpose is to beat his center to gain ball posession and stop his counter-attacks cuz he has a lot of strikers.I'll be honest,for three years I never see such as formation but I think this is the purpose,beat him with 3-5-2.

Thanks!! Played 1:1 which is great because his Team is much better.

[sdw]

great thread my friend! i was wondering what you did when u had problems with your 4-5v-1 formation when playing 4-3n-1-2,whats the alternative counter formation?

4-3n-1-2 is not good tactic for my oppinion but it counters 4-5-1 V style.
So you can try 3-1-4-1-1.With three DC's and one DMC you're good at defending,including stopping his AMC.With ML,MC,MC,MR you have good ball possession and attack him from the flanks,cuz he hasn't.With your AMC you're filling his hole on the pitch,cuz he hasn't DMC.One Striker is enough.

[sdw]

Hi sdw
Need your suggestion for counter two formations,

4-1-2MC-2AMC-1ST,, I played 3-1-3-2AMR/AML-1ST made a draw away match.
4-3MC-1AML-2ST I Played 5-2MC-2AML/AMR-1ST because of injuries Lost 3-2 away match.

For first : your tactic is not good.I dont know what you mean with 3 defenders(3 DC's or DL/DC/DR) and I dont know what you mean with 3 midfielders (3 MC's or ML/MC/MR).But my suggest dont use this tactic.I used it once and it was not effective against very weak team.Against 4-1-2-2(2 amc)-1 you must have DMC and dont play with AMC.Soo... there are a lot of options.You can use ML and MR and play from the flanks,but my suggest is 4-5-1 V style formation.
For second : this guy is playing attack from the left flank.So you must counter it with good DR.With your tactic he was beat you cuz he gained ball possession.Beat him for sure with 4-4-1-1.But put blue arrow of your MR and red arrow on your ML.Attack him from the left flank or mixed passes.It's your choice.

[Master Tactician]

Very good post. Clears out many misconceptions.

I'll diverse my opinion on only 2 things:

1a) DCs: I really like to have good attack on them just for the good passing, I always favor Physical- Defending skills but no more than 2 (I would never let to go to a 4 points difference though). A concept borrowed from Arsenal 2001-2004 where the 4 defenders where not defenders before they play at 1st team. And it proved wise since they're passing was more than superior. I like when teams start passing through the defense and as for now, I can say it works in Top11(+ short passing) since I have too much ball possession, more than 85% of successful passing and sometimes I get goals from my DCs. I'm still very open to criticism for this one though.

1b) DCs: When the opponent plays with 10 and I want to make use of the extra man (or when I need desperately 1 goal) and when I play with 3 at back (or 5) I use red arrow on the central DC. That's a concept I borrowed from real football tactics and I can say it worked 3 out of 4 times in Top11. If it really works and it's not just a coincidence then it will be a very very very strong counter, therefore guys, check it out, try it, it's worth the risk if it really works in general. (It's also strong related with 1a)

2) DML/DMR: Against AMR/AML in some cases I use 2DML/DMR + DMC. Last 2 seasons I play with no fullbacks. When I wanted to defend against AML/AMR I played a 3-6-1. 3DCs+ DML,DMC,DMR+ 3MCs+ 1ST. It worked against much stronger opponent in 4 out of 4 games. If I remember well I had blue arrows on DML/DMR.
In fact I think that choosing between fullbacks vs DML/DMR when countering AML/AMR is a trade off between ball possession and defending that favors the use of DML/DMR. I'm still open to any criticism for this one as well.