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Thread: Easy fix for manipulating division and cup seedings

  1. #21
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos View Post


    @HairDryer

    I don't agree.
    Asso games started as a fair competition but many people trying to "create" an advantage (with different ways through those years)

    People is corrupted by nature.


    We've suggested -at least i remember it, but don't remember if between the suggesters I was there- that yep, this option was mentioned time ago.
    Just use the AvQ from another moment, like for example the average quality of the teams during the last matches of the same tournament or similar, and I guess, that for some technical reason, that's not posible.

    Then we can analyze how the use of the "Average Team Strength on Previous Season" too can be used for manipulation. Perfectly.


    The only way to, dont manipulate is... the same suggestion that I did for the assos, -when I say, choose 14 players before start, and play the FAs with these players, without changes available or new market incorporations- so... "choosing before" and closing the teams is the only "perfect solution" but this in the regular tournaments will not happen.

    In FAs is another history, as these needs a obvious fix and a way to do what I call a professionalization of the FAs and not this joke.

    The game in essence, has been so flexible since the first version in 2010, and that's part of the success, that's why I don't expect any type of regulation or controls, or limits under the regular competitions.
    Last edited by khris; 04-06-2018 at 11:13 AM.

  2. #22
    Dreamer Rizla's Avatar
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    I really dont get why you insint on draws with average quality and not draws by level.
    About Asso draws Khris has a point, but the choice must be for the first eleven
    because if not, the exploitation will remain the same as today,,,

  3. #23
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizla View Post
    I really dont get why you insint on draws with average quality and not draws by level.
    About Asso draws Khris has a point, but the choice must be for the first eleven
    because if not, the exploitation will remain the same as today,,,
    14 for the 4 association matches is fair, think that you can have injuries, and allow 3 changes in each match is basic.

    There are many formulas really, random, per level, per avQ, avQ from another moment...

  4. #24
    Dreamer Rizla's Avatar
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    Khris with 14 players @mcdoomer will call me cheater again

  5. #25
    Dreamer Ursd's Avatar
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    It's impossible to fix this problem. They can put it harder to "cheaters" but there is nothing that they or us can do...

    I was thinking to put "Your opponents will be decided by your highest AvQ in the season" but if you do a season with 1* players then, the next one you buy 5* players and ypu beat everyone very, very easily.

    See? There will be always a way to manupulate the draw because there has to be a line. People who manipulates the draw will sell all their players just before arriving to the line...

    This is my personal opinion, then you can believe what you want - it's always like this.
    CD Rocket - Team showcase
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  6. #26
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizla View Post
    Khris with 14 players @mcdoomer will call me cheater again
    11+3 subs^^ only these 14 for all the associations tournament, chosen before the start. No new players should be added, if one sells more than 3 of these players with the idea to change them for better players, the list should be closed, so, -11 players = match lost 0-3 by default.

    ^^


    about a "unique" and supreme solution, for the cup, a new "draw" made in every round would be the only solution, so if you manipulate the team before season starting to join a lower avQ cup, only would work one round... unless you manipulate the team selling and buying the team 6 times before each one of the 6 season Cup supposed draws are made, but that's not posible.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    11+3 subs^^ only these 14 for all the associations tournament, chosen before the start. No new players should be added, if one sells more than 3 of these players with the idea to change them for better players, the list should be closed, so, -11 players = match lost 0-3 by default.

    ^^


    about a "unique" and supreme solution, for the cup, a new "draw" made in every round would be the only solution, so if you manipulate the team before season starting to join a lower avQ cup, only would work one round... unless you manipulate the team selling and buying the team 6 times before each one of the 6 season Cup supposed draws are made, but that's not posible.
    An average curve, the longest the data thread the better. Think of the stock market, for instance. Even if a stock valued at 100 tanks 90% 20 times during 10 years, the average will always smoothen that out. I would not mind AT ALL if the seedings were based on your complete TE career.

  8. #28
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    i dont agree with manipulation.it makes the game less realistic.simple as that....

  9. #29
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    so maybe a mathematical formula... knowing that each level difference is of 5 points..... and 80% always is the visual value given for the 5*... add a min value for the cup draws... the value assigned for the 5th star and then, "check out, the value, of the level" in the cse that a team overcomes the 80%, lets say the 100%..... ¿? so,,,, the min avQ in cup considered always would be 80%....

    Then considering this, you put in order all teams of the server, and if theres a draw in the AvQ assigned for the 80% sum the value of the level...

    EX:

    level 2 try to manipulate. 5* at level 2 is 25AvQ and then we have a level 3 trying the same.... level 3 have the 5* at 30 AvQ points, but both teams decrease the AvQ till 15%... so, the one at level 2, with 15 avq have a full of 4*.... 15avq at level 3 is 2*.... buuut...

    lets apply the formula, lets give the L2 team, a min' value for the cup draw, not of 15avq, but of 25, which is the average real level of the market of his level, so,,, is his potential..... and the level 3 have assigned a value, or 30 that is the 5* at level 3.... despite the avQ decrease there's no way to trick.


    Then.... I have a team 5*... 250avQ points... lets say that a team 3 levels lower, where 5* is 235 have a 8*.... then the system should consider all the star rank.. that goes from 250-254 and see the levels of the teams, the ones with + level would go first in the list ....
    ...or lower level teams will be count with the "star starting value" in this case a exact 250avQ meanwhile the 8* team is growing till the 9* (255avQ).... hmmmm....

    as the system needs go in order from the 1st better team of the server, then doing cup groups till level 1....

    ¿?

    ohh ye, magnific.
    Last edited by khris; 04-08-2018 at 05:27 AM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    so maybe a mathematical formula... knowing that each level difference is of 5 points..... and 80% always is the visual value given for the 5*... add a min value for the cup draws... the value assigned for the 5th star and then, "check out, the value, of the level" in the cse that a team overcomes the 80%, lets say the 100%..... ¿? so,,,, the min avQ in cup considered always would be 80%....

    Then considering this, you put in order all teams of the server, and if theres a draw in the AvQ assigned for the 80% sum the value of the level...

    EX:

    level 2 try to manipulate. 5* at level 2 is 25AvQ and then we have a level 3 trying the same.... level 3 have the 5* at 30 AvQ points, but both teams decrease the AvQ till 15%... so, the one at level 2, with 15 avq have a full of 4*.... 15avq at level 3 is 2*.... buuut...

    lets apply the formula, lets give the L2 team, a min' value for the cup draw, not of 15avq, but of 25, which is the average real level of the market of his level, so,,, is his potential..... and the level 3 have assigned a value, or 30 that is the 5* at level 3.... despite the avQ decrease there's no way to trick.


    Then.... I have a team 5*... 250avQ points... lets say that a team 3 levels lower, where 5* is 235 have a 8*.... then the system should consider all the star rank.. that goes from 250-254 and see the levels of the teams, the ones with + level would go first in the list ....
    ...or lower level teams will be count with the "star starting value" in this case a exact 250avQ meanwhile the 8* team is growing till the 9* (255avQ).... hmmmm....

    as the system needs go in order from the 1st better team of the server, then doing cup groups till level 1....

    ¿?

    ohh ye, magnific.
    That seems overly complicated, mate. I spit balled some ideas with my coworkers that also play the game and we think that the easiest fix is simply to add the statistic: Average Best Possbile Eleven Quality (AvSEQ) Over Time - AvBPEQOT * 1,02 per competition won that season. So, a team with 175 AvBPEQOT that wins the triplet, effectively would be ranked as 185 AvBPEQOT.

    Basically, the game only needs to start recording the quality of your Best Possible Eleven, Sum it and divided it by 11 and recording that average (1 goalie, 3 or 4 defenders, 3 or 5 mids, 1 or 4 attackers, this comprises all possible legal formations, the game already has implemented the system to know ilegal formations from legal ones).

    If you complete a season with 175 AvBPEQOT (including cup and champions league), you would need to tank under 50% for 2 full seasons to make it worth manipulating the seedings. Which seems a price too high to pay for the benefit, considering if you bring the team back to 175 AvBPEQOT, next season the lowest level opponents would be around 115% (125% if you won a few titles). Not a walk in the park anymore. And this is based on calculating just on the first 4 seasons of this system. After some 20 seasons it gets incredibly more complicated, you need to tank a lot more seasons to get the same effect, since you might have more competitions won.

    Bottom line, if the game tracks what You Would Normally be Doing, instead of What You Do, it makes it a lot more even field for all.
    Last edited by mcdoomer; 04-08-2018 at 11:16 AM.
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