Do special abilities work in the "wrong" position?

[ponzu]

I find Shadow Striker to be a cool SA. For one, it does not have a counter. And I think it really works as my MR/AMR who is -10Q (44 vs. max of 54 for my LV7) with SS scored 4 goals in a cup match (granted, it was a 9:0 blowout).

Well, I want to keep him at 44 for marketability reasons. I don't think I have a chance to train him to 49, and I don't want to leave him as an in-between. This may be silly, but this is what I read and this is what I currently believe. Granted, my beliefs change quickly these days.

He is currently a 44.8 and has MR/AMR and SS, as I mentioned. And he is a fast trainer. So to keep him from going over 45 I started training him as an MC (Passing is his highest rated individual skill as is).

Will he still use his SS SA if one day I play him as an MC? I don't know why I would and I don't know why I bother asking. I just like figuring things out. I am sure those who have replied to me in the past few days have noticed

An another question. Maybe I should throw out the common wisdom (for what it's worth), suspend MC training (only 2 points gained so far), and start training his skills in earnest and playing him in competition? His counterpart is 46Q MR/AMR who was the leading scorer last season and a medium trainer. I have been told to sometimes go with your gut and not the numbers. This guys seems like a star, but his Q is just so damn low.

[nikolgiorgos]

What are you saying ?!
Special abilities are not even working in the right position !

[Gert Funck]

wrong post

[legendqueen]

Sir you should really learn how to shorten your ideas

1st question: If he plays as MC, his Special Ability is still applied when he shoots from distance. But when he plays as MC, shooting from long range will be less likely to happen than when he plays as AML/AMR/AMC.

2nd question: (brought me some brain damage when trying to understand your ideas): If a guy is slow trainder, dont bother use green pack to train him, it's a waste. And if a low Q player plays well, you can keep him, as long as his Q is 4 star +, if he drops lower than 4 star, think of replacing him with other guy.

[HoofDaddy]

star level means nothing, form is all. Formation and tactics provide the basis for success. See the season thread, 1* getting 2 goals and a 9 rating doesn't happen by accident.

[ponzu]

star level means nothing, form is all.

Do you believe that or just saying to agitate a newb? Sure, there are a few guides and thesis papers I still have not read, but surely this cannot be true? For one, try going up against a well managed team 3-4 stars above you. Without maximum win bonus, possession boost and luck it's almost impossible to win. Another thing is that in my experience form (if you mean match rating) depends on the team's performance and not other way around. Go against a lowbie, score 9 goals and everyone midfield and up is an 8-10. Go against a stronger opponent, play your heart out, lose by one, and everyone is a 6-7. Now, if someone is 7-6-7-6-5 even in winning matches I would think there is something wrong with them or with the way I am using them. But to say "form is all"?

Formation and tactics provide the basis for success.

True.

1* getting 2 goals and a 9 rating doesn't happen by accident.

Oh but I think it might. Still makes for a cool story in the managers' lounge, though.

[ponzu]

Sir you should really learn how to shorten your ideas

You are so right! Even truer I should learn to stick to one idea per post. My problem is I develop ideas while writing. Then I try to explain them to prevent misunderstanding. In this case I started with "I am doing X, will it work?" and progressed to "Is X worth doing or should I switch to Y, which is said to be a bad idea, but is it really?"

On question 1.

Thank you for clarifying that once a SA is developed, it will apply in any position, but is less likely to be in demand in some positions. I have a DC/DMC who is training his Aerial Defender SA. I wonder if this SA will be triggered when he is playing DMC.

On question 2.

The guy in question is a fast trainer. In fact, the only fast trainer on the team All my machinations and calculations led me to buying a bunch of mid-grade trainers who are slowly chugging along towards the next star. This guy has the lowest Q (he is a Q44 4* on the team with three Q55 6*s and counting). Obviously, he is not going to train up to Q49, but he is one skill away from becoming a Q45. Now, it has been said -- and tell me if I took it too close to heart -- to sell players when they have a rating ending in 4 or a 9 because then they attract the most attention in the market. So the decision I made was to develop a largely useless third position (MC in addition to MR/AMR) in order to keep the rating at 44.8.

In Question 1 I was asking for information and I got it, thank you!

In Question 2 I was asking for opinion and inviting a (hopefully meaningful) conversation. I ended up hearing that Q is nothing and form is everything. If my 4* fast trainer with MR/AMR and "Shadow Striker" scored 4 goals in the first Cup match (never mind that it was a 9:0 blowout of a misformed team) I was supposed to keep giving him starts over his higher rated teammates and keep giving him a chance to improve Q to a mid-grade 5* rather than holding him back for dubious reasons of future marketability. Yes? No? Maybe so?

Of course it is all complicated by the fact that the guy in question is competing for a starting job with a Q46 MR/AMR who is my star performer over two seasons. Hence the decision to develop MC and give him a chance to compete with my highly rated, but average performing MCs. He is at 5/50 progress for MC. It will probably take him most of the season to train the MC role and if his rating is lowish for the current season, it will become ridiculous in the next.

Unless he is one of my lowbies whom I carry in order to lower the avQ for cup draws. 3* next season, 2* season after, and so on. He can become my mascot, my good luck charm.

Did I explain my ideas better? Or made it worse?

[ponzu]

@HoofDaddy One way I can think of taking your statement "star rating is nothing" seriously is if you are trying to say that individual player's rating is not taken into account by the match engine. Say if a 3* ST is trying to make a run past a 5* DC that it does not matter that his speed is rated 12 points lower. If that is the fact, it's unfortunate and counterintuitive, but okay, you guys would know.

Why does everyone shop and train for the highest rating then?

[legendqueen]

....
Did I explain my ideas better? Or made it worse?

LOL, You should be writer, reporter, analyst etc... not programmer I'm not a big fan of reading so if you want useful conversations you'd better halve your writings down.

- DMC with defending SA still works. You can see, when forming defensive wall, DMC joins, also i believe he (a DMC) always stays around the goal when defending against airstrikes.

- People say Quality can't outweight form, i agree with this only 50%.

AML/AMR are the positions for superstars (normally in a match, they are the ones who have a lot of chances to score/assist, so AML/AMR usually have better rating than MC, DC, DMC...etc) So when you see an AML/AMR performs better than other position, it's something very common.

Take into account an AML who has played with you like 3 seasons, you're likely to put all his skill points to attack + physical-mental, so even his overal rating is 4 star, his attack and physical-mental skills are 5 star, or even 6 stars. So he's performing well still due to his good Quality in specific role (which is attack), not just his form.

Your 4 star player may score a lot in an easy match, but beware! Low star rating usually can't do much against stronger or equal rating teams (in this situation, AML/AMR also have to join defence, so if their rating in this role is low, he will be a dead weight)

- Training player with other position should be the last thing you do in this game, because it costs too many skill point/green packs, also it doesnt' benefit you enough for what you pay. If you want another good MC, buy from market, much cheaper than training another guy into MC. The only posibility when you give a player another favoured position is when you want to have a "multifunctional" player in your squad, who can play everywhere in the field, but this player NEED to be super fast trainer.

[HoofDaddy]

Rating numbers are always rolled on during the course of a game. But the different in higher levels between a 2* and a 5* at my level arent that great. A 2 star range at my level is 65-69, 5 star 80/84. So a 5star is only 15-20% better statistically than a 2star. Compare that with A lvl 3 player where 5stars are 50% or greater statistically to 2 stars. I'm not saying that 5 stars are a waste of money and time. It's just that players that exhibit consistent form and performance over extended time (5+) seasons shouldn't be discarded because their star level seems to fall off. They are cost-effective in wages as well.

People shop and train for the highest rating because the are looking to maximize their potential of success. As every manager on here can tell you, they have had 7* in slump and 3* with 5 game scoring streaks. Form is all, star rating is meaningless over the course of a single game. A bad game is a bad game regardless of the player's quality.

And ponzu, deciding your starting 11 is one of the hardest decisions a manager has to make. When encountering a tanking team do you a) use your strongest team and crush them mercilessly, padding your stats b) use players that you are looking to sell and are likely to rate well and thus have a greater chance of selling c) rest your starters and avoid unnecessary injuries
the correct answer is all of them, depending on the situation, these are the decisions that make great managers, not choosing attacking posture over defending, game to game with the same formation that was copied from the tactics subforum.