What do you all mean with countering the orders?

[madflo19]

This season a difficult 1:0 against a weaker unmanaged team, not my strongest 11 on the field, 15 mins before end I decide to def and counter - bam 1:1. So I always play attack against attack, it works better, but there is no counter logic

There is no logic in this game,only "experts" like LacBuoc knows how things work in the game.

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[nikolgiorgos]

countering the orders?

that's an interesting subject for Mythbusters

https://forum.topeleven.com/top-elev...eleven-20.html
#193

[pcmacdaniel]

I've mentioned countering orders a few times in my posts.

What it refers to is studying the previous match history of an opponent to figure out if the manager falls into a pattern.

However, what I think is the key question here is, can orders be countered? If so, what is the relationship between the orders that can be countered? Even if orders can be countered, are some of the orders, just cosmetic?

I base my strategy on counter orders do exist. And to provide evidence that this might work, I'll share my match history against a team both the OP (Kto) and I are familar with, it's the level 8 tanking CL winner, Panos FC. My association faced his 5 times in associations, and him and I went head-to-head in all 5 meetings. Panos had over 90% passes completed in all our head to head meetings, and played a Christmas Tree for the first 9 meetings. So the 90% completed means short passing, and i'm assuming attacking because Christmas Tree is an attacking formation. By the third meeting, I had picked up on the pattern.

1st meeting: He loaned out 8 starters, I played as 15% favorite. Won 6-2 and 5-2
2nd meeting: Bug weekend
3rd meeting: Me (140%-150%) Him; I won 2-0 and 1-0
4th meeting:
5th meeting: Me (141%-158%) Him. I won 4-0 and 2-1

Considering the quality gap, and my 5-1-0 head-to-head record as a double-digit underdog, it can't be troll. Once, maybe twice can be troll but not 6 out of 6. So it has to be something with the orders I applied that produced this success; which leads me to believe counter-orders do exist and there is a relationship between the passing type (long, mixed, short) and mentality combination, and that combination can be countered. Same for High Press/Counter-Attack(and maybe offsides) combination, but not sure how to tell if opponent is using these orders.

To add to this theory, I've lost the first leg to a signficantly lesser team in associations three times this season already. So can't pick up on pattern + having stronger team = 3 defeats. 50% 1st leg defeats as a favorite,(60% as significant favorite) probably too frequent an occurrence to be troll as well I would think. Once maybe, but 3 times idk.

P.S. Sorry I don't have more pictures for photographic proof; I didn't screenshot enough stuff.

[khris]

Well, to know the mentality its easy, just one need to know the line of pressure where the other team starts the game.... defensive means he will come from defense, slowly and step by step from behind till your goal,,, Normal menans the game starts more advanced and attacking you will see the other team starting playing in your own field, this is what I always call -line of pressure-and why I advice always to have prepared 2 groups of orders, because depending of the scenario/simulation, key players that are the choosen ones selected by the system in one match etc.... is better start attacking from your own field...

long - short passing and mixed too is easy to know... the tackling soft-mixed-hard is related to the number of tackles, hard will mean more tackles, and here I tend to think (despite I aklways played NOrmal in all my 57 seasons) that VS better teams (+20%+AvQ) is better do soft tckles due the "posible differance" in the ability tackling so is posible have FK's against going hard, so reduce the number of tackles vs higher Q teams can be a advantadge. Oposite with weaker teams with who we have advantadge in the ability.

ooffside trap is obvious and counters too...

...so for me is not " counter orders", is more find a combination that give you advantadge depending of the scenario that the game creates... and ofc count =, I will not say if more or less, for example, attend and manage the team cause the simulation is another, switch some players... do a sub' ....

[madflo19]

90% completed passes doesn't means automatically that he is playing short passing because i remember so many times when i was playing mix passes,the ass man telling me that was a great decision to play short passes and vice versa!

[pcmacdaniel]

90% completed passes doesn't means automatically that he is playing short passing because i remember so many times when i was playing mix passes,the ass man telling me that was a great decision to play short passes and vice versa!

Good point. I didn't realize mixed could hit 90%. I think this guy was around 92% or so when we played usually. Wish I kept photos of the box scores so I could provide proof of match results and double-check.

[Kto]

Good points guys. I think over 90% passing should be short pass, or however you can see the tendence though.
I often just base desicions on real football which could be wrong. Even though its hard to translate the complexity of real football, real players have to stay very flexible.
Agree with the combos of orders which might have an influence. Against long ball no offside an arrows back is what I do in defence but absolutely no idea if its good. Sometimed it went right without and didnt work with.
What I also wonder about are arrows. No idea how it works, in defence I try to duplucate oppos attacking arrows (like blue on CD for the case ST has red), in attack avoid this duplicating (no arrow if suggest blue and red if suggest red).
Lately I often play through the middle (always flanks before), so I tried in few games against offensive LM and RM blue arrows with my offensive developed wingers, suggesting oppos having red, that went good so far, but who nows if it was because if this setting too.