Do you think that the result of every match between two teams is based on unique equations that represent and compare their players / formations / tactics / trainings and all the other factors in an algorithm way or is it just random ?
https://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0607/0607064.pdf take a look on pages 4- 8 - 14 - 26...
http://www.iaees.org/publications/jo...er-matches.pdf
I say that it is not completely random and to an extent our action matter a lot, the problem is that there is a big % that seems to not consider anything we do and is often based of luck,troll and other things that make no sense especially to me, like the fact that abandoned teams can be competitive enough to grab a good result against you.
The game considers I think many things the number 1 I think is the draw (this is why so may resort to manipulation). Skills are important but not if you are in a plus 2 level CUP/CL. If you end up in the right draw, even 1 level higher than yourself but with teams with similar quality TE is actually a very entertaining and almost fair game.
I say the key is the Nr of good players that you have on your team not on visual skills but performance (nr of goals,assists, good defenders etc.)
Wouldn't the mathematics of randomness mean that everyones club history would read wins 33.3%, draws 33.3% defeats 33.33333333333333333%?
I got an email (from support) when I asked them the same question. The answer I got was results are churned out using something akin to a RNG (Random Number Generator ) like on poker websites.Which in my opinion, they are not truly random. 2. All RNG's need human statistical input , Otherwise the variance/troll results would be far too frequent. Oopps they are [emoji16][emoji16][emoji111][emoji111]Quote:
Originally Posted by USARABAT
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It's both mathematics and random.Quote:
Originally Posted by USARABAT
No, man. You should read something about probability theory =] It is more important than you probably think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altiplano
Game is IMO and experience based in scenarios. So"mathematical randomness" is the exact term.
It's possible you're probably correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxcatl
Read this http://www.iaees.org/publications/jo...er-matches.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by khris
Then tell me if you still believe in mathematical randomness ;)
I was trying to understand the role of luck (random effect) in TE with my own way :p
https://forum.topeleven.com/top-elev...op-eleven.html
Many seasons ago I lost a cup semifinal to a weaker team, on full condition and full morale (Nordeus confirmed that preparation is just cosmetic), using a counter formation, a winning bonus and watching the game.
Apparently it wasn't enough to win.
- If the preparation is just cosmetic, you can just forget it, it won't matter towards the result, right?
- Ok, try using a counter formation, but you still lose. So this doesn't matter, maybe it's something else.
- Maybe it's the tactics? Whatever you use, you won't see a result on screen, because the simulation doesn't reflect the real game, so you don't know what the **** you are actually doing.
- Many people lose against weaker teams, so quality isn't the only important part, I guess.
- Maybe it's a mix of everything? Yeah, maybe, but if we look again about my example above none of this mattered.
I would say it's a mix of numbers mashed together, but in a retarded way :p
I only use 1 formation, maybe I mix it up a little sometimes, always on defensive and high pressing and usually I win everytime except a few time when the games decides to **** you.
But here's my take:
Whatever you do it doesn't really matter. Probably possession is the only thing that actually works and is active towards the result, because you can see a change in it when you make a change in the formation and in the passing style. It's also more linked to shots on target than we think and it's what generates the final results in a very simplicistic way.
Sometimes troll results happen when your opponents has low possession but still scores, maybe the engine calculates a ratio over this percentage because they don't want to make it too unfair and still give an opportunity to a weaker team.
Example: more possession = more scoring opportunity (which is fair and realistic), but it gives a chance to the team with a lower possesion in order to compensate.
A few days ago I lost against a weaker team, 2nd in my league because he had a lot of friends watching, I lost all my bonus possession and he won 4-1. In the first leg I won 1-2 the same way. He had a lot more possession, so the game showed only his plays, except a few opportunities where I scored and also maybe balanced to my quality.
I also explains why I keep winning with the same formation, because it works well with high possession. The only games I lost this season (3) where because posession was in favor of my opponent (lost 4-1) or actually more balanced (lost 2-1 both times).
Possession isn't a reliable stat to read the Game. More possession is never equal to more opportunities. Your scoring opportunity is dependent on the meter at the bottom of the screen in a live animation, the animation would never show your team attack if the meter isn't in your favor. This meter is more dependent on your formation and orders than it is on possession. For instance, if you set a defensive/ counter-attack strategy against a stronger opponent even if the opponent has 65% possession it doesn't matter, if the game engine favors your tactic over his own the animation will give you more scoring opportunities. A better stat to keep tabs on a live match is shots on target both for and against, and how many of those shots forced the goalie into making a saveQuote:
Originally Posted by Tyltyl
Now that I think of it, I can add a few more ideas.
The formation only works towards ball possession, that's all. If you mess it up when you tank, you just lower your possession giving the opponent more scoring opportunities. Hence you lose 0-10. Simple, ok?
Now, I remember that 2 seasons ago while tanking, I encountered other tanking teams, so we both had wrong formations and some matches still ended up with me scoring 2 or 3 goals while conceding 7. How can a wrong team score this much? It should end 0-0, or maybe 1-0, except when ball possession generates his bull****s.
Maybe tactics only give a slightly higher scoring bonus for yourself. Attacking raises your scoring opportunities a little, let's say 5%, while defending it doesn't lower only yours, but the ones of your opponent up to -3%. Makes sense to me.
Let's say you possession is 70%-30%, the higher possession team gets X amount of scoring opportunities (let's say 10) that can generate goals. If you are lucky you get 5 or 6, if you are not and odds are not on your side, you get 1 or 2 and it can actually happen. BUT, on that 30% it generate less opportunities (let's say 3), that don't mean he won't score, it's just about luck and he can score 1.
The same happens when possession is 55%-45%. Both teams generate 5 scoring opportunities from which they get a final result of 2-1.
Then a troll result can happen when you are unlucky and don't get goals with the opportunities you get out of your ball possession, while it generates a goal out of lower opponents opportunities.
Just my crazy idea, but to me it makes sense, because whatever you choose won't change the result. It can be just a ratio calculated over that. Much easier to program, makse sense, mostly fair, if you lose it's bad luck.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but opportunities come exaclty out of that and I partially agree with you except for one thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan117
I always play defensive and counter attack and I have a lot of possession in my favor everytime, but when I played against this team which is weaker, he got a lot of bonus possession out of friends watching up to +15% in his favor (at my home with me watching!). It was enough for him to get 55% possession, 7 shots and 4 goals.
Attachment 92702
you guys should really read this http://www.iaees.org/publications/jo...er-matches.pdf
it only gives you a small idea about the programming of online soccer games ...
there is much more complicated algorithm than what you can imagine...
I lost yesterday against a weaker team , i had 15 % bonus ... he wasn't watching ....
I don't believe in what's so called "troll results" ... I believe math and physics algorithm ...
once you and I guys learn more of how the programmers wrote the equations (Secrets) , more we avoid surprise defeats and do better ...
The algorithm gives Khris the reason. lol
My point is that he didn't score more goals and get more opportunities because he had more possession than you, it was because the game engine favoured his tactics and formation among several other factors over your own. Like I said before shots on target and number of saves is the most reliable stat to use definitely not possession.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyltyl
The truth is we dont know what we doing wrong or right. There is so many factor in this game where we can blame morale condition formation tactic bonus training so on and so on. Each have their own perception or believe what work and what not.
For me is quality 9* team will have 99% winning against 7* and below with right formation( not tanking). 1% troll which can happen once in a while. You can put aside morale condition bonus and not watching or watching which is all cosmetic.
So quality is the main factor in calculating the result and have all the advantage.
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also experience is a factor ( more number of games )
There is no tactics or anything you can do to stop a troll result from happening in a live match. Over the seasons I payed attention to this matches and there is a case for predetermination here. The live animation goals for example, when there is a counter-attack and your players starts moving faster toward the goal 95% of the time there is a goal, the other 5% it is a clear indication of a ''bad day'' and the match will go against you, a draw or a loss. The other animation to pay attention that results mostly in a goal is when the corner shot finds your player and he hits the ball, usually there is a goal, every time my players miss this clear opportunities it is a sign that the match is going against me.
I've noticed this but can't remember if I had lost or drawn ALL times when I faced similar situations. I will associate your observation about the indicators of a "bad day" with the result of the games from now on.Quote:
Originally Posted by KenoticFC
Some teams play 2 games per day ( league/ cup or League / CL ) did you notice a complete bad day in both games or lets say " half day bad performance " ?
The link you provided doesn't work (or the firewall is blocking it). I click it and I get this screen.Quote:
Originally Posted by USARABAT
Attachment 92714
Second, by online soccer game, what is the author of the article referring too? A facebook/google application created by a small company or a massive corporation that produced games for XBox/Playstation? The nordeus game engine is an 8-9 year old computer program, written by a company whose programmers can't produce one update without bugging the game. I'm skeptical that this is a complicated algorithm by programmer standards. Heck, my manager skills in this game elevated significantly just from taking 2 programming courses at the local college and i've got like no idea what i'm doing in those courses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmacdaniel
Hello, this is a screen shot from the first page . use the title and keywords at the top to google it or send me ur email/ FB to forward it.
Check where the programmers have reached to understand the power of mathematical and physic algorithm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2rhRJkWOEI
Check this out from my cup semifinal. My opponent was SLIGHTLY weaker than me, but very frightening! In the first game we were both present, I win 1-6 away in a very straightforward and easy game.
I just played the 2nd leg, my opponent didn't watch probably thinking we were done. If he did he would probably had the opportunity to boot me out!
Check the stats. I also changed my formation from the same I had in the first game after the first 2 goals. I ****ing shat myself! WTF?
Attachment 92738Attachment 92739
as you said the difference is slight .... the battle ended as following : 3 pts each and u won with 1 goal difference 6-5 ...
Both teams won out of home land (if i am not wrong)
Question: Did the absence of your opponent in the second game made a difference ?
Mathematical Randomness is an oxymoron. Variables can be measured/catered for in modern statistics 🤣🤣MR Randomness. Ha Ha.That's tickled me. [emoji106][emoji122][emoji111][emoji111]Quote:
Originally Posted by USARABAT
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Nice ! Although I wrote to support and they replied "Possession NEVER won a game "(Sic)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyltyl
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