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Thread: The new league draw system

  1. #81
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    forgot to post the achvm
    The new league draw system-achvm-nino.jpg
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  2. #82
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    I get a little sad every time I read this topic.

  3. #83
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Nifield View Post
    I wish mine was the same, have of the teams look to be have abandoned....gonna be a race for who can thrash those 7 teams the most probably.
    you can build a "competitive" team with 0T academy players and 3* retired veterans and have a "challenging" league
    The only difference in challenge is that in the first case you spend a bunch of T and boosters and in the second case none

    Actually there is a forum member (but not visiting the forum often), Amane Ito, who playing the game like this.
    He builds his team mostly with his 0T academy players and have a great success.
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  4. #84
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncton View Post
    I get a little sad every time I read this topic.
    If they continue this silly thing, I really start thinking to play this way - manipulating my league by Q.
    I strongly disagree with that, I stayed in the same level some times because of that but doesn't help.
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookizzz View Post
    So far I notice that average qualities of the league varies from around low 4 star to low 6 star in same league level.

    League draw change started since 3 seasons ago in my server. Now there are very friends in league and all teams are similar in average qualities. In my teams, all my players have similar qualities. So actually, my starters are often lower in qualities than the opponents.
    Me too

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos View Post
    If they continue this silly thing, I really start thinking to play this way - manipulating my league by Q.
    I strongly disagree with that, I stayed in the same level some times because of that but doesn't help.
    Nordeus will tell you they have done that so that the other weaker teams can have a better chance, the same 'excuse' that they will probably give for why a team has to face teams 3 levels higher in the Cup. But, don't you think that all this was done to boost the business? Serious users will be put together in the same league, and thus they will have to spend more money (or complete more offers) to gain advantages over the others. For the Cup, serious users will be put to play against higher level teams, and thus will have to improve their team even more if they want to have a significant chance to win the Cup.
    Last edited by Tactician; 05-08-2016 at 06:25 PM.
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  7. #87
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    I started this thread last June, after I noticed that this isn't random.
    Few weeks later there was an official announcement from top eleven, that this was a decision to make more fair the competition
    http://forum.topeleven.com/top-eleve...aw-system.html
    Of course it's obvious that's not the reason because if the game would like to be fair, this should happened to all competitions and levels.
    The Cup should have a limit in levels (1 lv dif. max), the CH.L. shouldn't have mix of levels (if there aren't enough teams to complete a CH.L. group, teams from 5th or 6th position should promote and not from a lv bellow).
    And of course in the competitions of higher levels, where almost in every one there are mixed level teams because of the lack of managers and different servers.
    Is this q league draw a challenge for the players to spend more ?
    I don't think so. The teams who are promote to play in "easy" leagues, never spent and will never do as they just don't follow the game. You can see that form their achievements
    For example, playing the game for two years and having the mongul 1 achvm ? bought only 30 players from the beginning of the game

    This league draw was a reason I stayed 4 times in the same level, meaning not spending anything. I also think to do the same this season.
    And it's not only me. It's very often to see managers who "lost" seasons, with their will or not.
    In my league this season, half of the teams won't promote and those team have 5* and 6* players.
    Those managers, after some first results gonna loose their interest to the league as there is no hope for a title or CHL. promotion or even promote to the next league lv.
    They 're not gonna spend this season and probably not much in the next season too, as they already have a ready team of 5-6* players.
    So, what for is this q league draw ?
    I don't know, some failed idea ?
    It's not the first one.
    As they give us the space here not only to post different subjects but some suggestions too, I started this thread so maybe some day a guy who is good in marketing get some ideas for the good of both - company and players.
    http://forum.topeleven.com/top-eleve...marketing.html
    Last edited by nikolgiorgos; 05-08-2016 at 08:49 PM.
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolgiorgos View Post
    I started this thread last June, after I noticed that this isn't random.

    Is this q league draw a challenge for the players to spend more ?
    I don't think so. The teams who are promote to play in "easy" leagues, never spent and will never do as they just don't follow the game. You can see that form their achievements
    For example, playing the game for two years and having the mongul 1 achvm ? bought only 30 players from the beginning of the game
    http://forum.topeleven.com/top-eleve...marketing.html
    Users of such teams are classified as non-serious users. Hence, they are unlikely to spend money and/or complete offers as compared to the other type of user that are likely to be put in 5-7 stars league. So, on the business side of view it is better to put the non-serious users together, and put the serious users together. If serious and non-serious users are put together, serious users will feel less need to improve their team significantly as compared to when they have been put in a mostly serious-user league. The higher the level and the tougher a competition is, the more there is the need for a serious user to improve his team as advantages in quality will likely be very significant in such cases for deciding the top 4 and top 6. Why can't you see that?

    'playing the game for two years and having the mongul 1 achvm ? bought only 30 players from the beginning of the game' Such users are probably non-serious users. So, it is better to group them together as they will not likely contribute directly or indirectly to the revenue of the company for the case of the league (for example, directly: buy tokens; indirectly: cause other users to buy tokens). But, they may contribute indirectly for the case of the Cup.

    Why the selection is done based on quality? Consider the denotation P(X) to be the probability of the event X to occur. For a particular level, P(a team is managed by a serious user) is significantly greater than P(a team is managed by a non-serious user) when the team's average quality relative to its level is greater. The P(serious user to spend money or complete offers) is greater than the P(non-serious user to spend money or complete offers). This is an example of how statistics are used to make business decisions.

    A similar approach can be used for the Cup.
    P(the lower level team is managed by the serious a user) is greater than the P(the higher level team is managed by a serious user). Hence, P(serious user from the lower level will spend or complete offers) has been increased as he has been put to compete against higher level teams.

    These probabilities are well respected for the lower-mid, mid and mid-higher levels. Hence, this concern the majority of active serious users - the major fraction of users that are expected to contribute significantly to the revenue of the company. The probabilities are likely not be well-respected at the extremes (very lower levels, for example level 1 and 2, and very high levels, for example 30+).

    Very few serious users use the method of tanking and/or draw fooling in this game. You have seen it based on how you play the game. See it on the serious-user, token buyer or non-tanker side of the game. See it as a businessman. It is clear that the change in how the league draws are done was a business move.
    Last edited by Tactician; 05-08-2016 at 11:17 PM.
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactician View Post
    Users of such teams are classified as non-serious users. Hence, they are unlikely to spend money and/or complete offers as compared to the other type of user that are likely to be put in 5-7 stars league. So, on the business side of view it is better to put the non-serious users together, and put the serious users together. If serious and non-serious users are put together, serious users will feel less need to improve their team significantly as compared to when they have been put in a mostly serious-user league. The higher the level and the tougher a competition is, the more there is the need for a serious user to improve his team as advantages in quality will likely be very significant in such cases for deciding the top 4 and top 6. Why can't you see that?

    'playing the game for two years and having the mongul 1 achvm ? bought only 30 players from the beginning of the game' Such users are probably non-serious users. So, it is better to group them together as they will not likely contribute directly or indirectly to the revenue of the company for the case of the league (for example, directly: buy tokens; indirectly: cause other users to buy tokens). But, they may contribute indirectly for the case of the Cup.

    Why the selection is done based on quality? Consider the denotation P(X) to be the probability of the event X to occur. For a particular level, P(a team is managed by a serious user) is significantly greater than P(a team is managed by a non-serious user) when the team's average quality relative to its level is greater. The P(serious user to spend money or complete offers) is greater than the P(non-serious user to spend money or complete offers). This is an example of how statistics are used to make business decisions.

    A similar approach can be used for the Cup.
    P(the lower level team is managed by the serious a user) is greater than the P(the higher level team is managed by a serious user). Hence, P(serious user from the lower level will spend or complete offers) has been increased as he has been put to compete against higher level teams.

    These probabilities are well respected for the lower-mid, mid and mid-higher levels. Hence, this concern the majority of active serious users - the major fraction of users that are expected to contribute significantly to the revenue of the company. The probabilities are likely not be well-respected at the extremes (very lower levels, for example level 1 and 2, and very high levels, for example 30+).

    Very few serious users use the method of tanking and/or draw fooling in this game. You have seen it based on how you play the game. See it on the serious-user, token buyer or non-tanker side of the game. See it as a businessman. It is clear that the change in how the league draws are done was a business move.
    I'd argue that by lumping all "serious" users into one league, Nordeus creates one of two scenarios.

    Scenario 1: One token buyer is more dominant than the rest and the resulting scenario is one where coiners either scale back or stop buying and in some cases even abandon their teams.

    This scenario has initial gains in revenue as coiners will spend more to try and compete against other coiners. You'll see a battle for 1st, involving multiple 7* teams. But the heavy coining only last until it becomes apparent that one coiner has the upper hand on the other, whether it be due to outspending them or being more skilled.

    I've seen this scenario unfold multiple times.

    Scenario 2: The market is saturated with coiners, so the amount of parity leads to no one dominant team, hence different champs over several different seasons. Since buying tokens isn't equating to trophies, managers scale back on funding nordeus.

    This creates the problem of tanking token buyers as well.

    Basically, my argument is quality based league draw create short-term revenue growth but over the long-term, that growth might not last.
    Last edited by pcmacdaniel; 05-09-2016 at 01:00 AM.
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcmacdaniel View Post
    I'd argue that by lumping all "serious" users into one league, Nordeus creates one of two scenarios.

    Scenario 1: One token buyer is more dominant than the rest and the resulting scenario is one where coiners either scale back or stop buying and in some cases even abandon their teams.

    This scenario has initial gains in revenue as coiners will spend more to try and compete against other coiners. You'll see a battle for 1st, involving multiple 7* teams. But the heavy coining only last until it becomes apparent that one coiner has the upper hand on the other, whether it be due to outspending them or being more skilled.

    I've seen this scenario unfold multiple times.

    Scenario 2: The market is saturated with coiners, so the amount of parity leads to no one dominant team, hence different champs over several different seasons. Since buying tokens isn't equating to trophies, managers scale back on funding nordeus.

    This creates the problem of tanking token buyers as well.

    Basically, my argument is quality based league draw create short-term revenue growth but over the long-term, that growth might not last.
    There is one thing that you need to consider though. It is extent of how much the serious users are addicted to this game. So, Nordeus will likely to profit from the drawing systems in this game for both League and Cup, even in the long term until most users are able to see things like you said in scenario 1 and in addition to that, they are able to fight their addiction and other related imperfections. You can compare the role of this game like that of a drug.

    Most mid-level leagues for serious users will likely consist of 6-7 star teams and some 5 star teams. If ever there is an 8 star team in there, it will be likely that the managers of the 7 star teams will push their team to 8 stars if they feel there is a need for more quality to be able to be among the top 4. Who wins significantly in this case? Nordeus.
    It will be very rare that a 9 star team will be added to such leagues; but, this will more likely to happen in the very high levels. So, the serious users (the majority) won't be discouraged so much that they will abandon. Take into account that their addiction and so on will 'force' them to keep on playing, and even 'force' them to up the quality of their teams because those managers want to win.

    Also, take into consideration that users on this forum here only represents a minority of the users of Top Eleven. Many users don't much about the game other than things like 'throwing' a lot of tokens to get the best players on the market, thinking that in doing so they will be able to win a lot or things like that.
    Last edited by Tactician; 05-09-2016 at 10:08 AM.
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