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Thread: Last minute formation changes / rest using disavantages?

  1. #1
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    Last minute formation changes / rest using disavantages?

    Hi all,

    Just curious if any of you have this same problem. I've noticed over the last half year or so if I change my formation and apply rests/morale a few minutes before an upcoming match, the results are poor. Its been nagging me for a while now and started tracking it. Historically I have won about 75% of my games in the last year (Going to war on bots mostly lol). But when I prep my team with less than 15 mins I get the troll results way too often. You think its possible that Nordeus wrote some dodgy penalty into the games algorithm that punishes last minute changes?

    Or more likely, the game has already determined the lion share of its calculations well in advance of the match start? The results I get definitely more closely represent what i would expect to get if i didnt change my formation or rest/morale up my knackered players.


    Thoughts?



    Cheers!
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  2. #2
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    You've been tracking it, so what's the data? That's more reliable than a bunch of us who don't track it giving opinions.

    You tracked games, and win-draw-loss totals for the games you did and did not adjust later than 15 minutes to match time were _____.

    IRL, how many changes were made to starting 11 is a frequent point of discussion (or contention) especially when things don't go as planned. Some formula to mimic that wouldn't be dodgy, per se.

    Personally, I've had both ways, heavy training killing a rating, or not affecting at all. Same if the star rating has increased ffor the player.


    Edit: if you think it's "likely" that results are predetermined to any degree, can you answer, practically speaking, why Nordeus would do that? They almost certainly have server and cloud processing on demand, and the formulas used for non-graphical calculations, those behind the stats and goals and events, are almost certainly approaching inconsequential for those kinds of processors. It's not hours long physics modeling calculations. So what's the advantage to processing this ahead of time? We can see visisual changes during the game, so they're calculating some data on the fly... Why not all of it... Like most programs...
    Last edited by LeManiaque; 03-15-2017 at 09:33 PM.
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  3. #3
    Greek Forum Moderator nikolgiorgos's Avatar
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    You think its possible that Nordeus wrote some dodgy penalty into the games algorithm that punishes last minute changes?
    yea, me too.
    I don't understand why they would do that.
    But you know, sometimes when you are log in for a long time, maybe there is some "hidden" connection loss.
    Before important games, better log out and in again ( a refresh).
    ibangali likes this.
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  4. #4
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    In my case, I alway keep my team as 4-1-4-1, my team go to the field with that formation, but just before the whistle blow there few sec cool down time and on that time I change the formation on field (I never had to change players as all are 3 positions except GK) to counter oppo and click "save" as soon as whistle blow, in that way I never had problem but last 2 seasons I got troll, even my team was 115% oppo 65% but I never think about that its happening due to last min formation change. Interesting...
    Even I notice my assigned FK sp player doesn't do fk, every time different player take the shot, very interesting...
    (although my main team with one of AC team not playing now)
    Last edited by ibangali; 03-16-2017 at 07:38 AM.
    I can fight against a real player but can't fight against game engine (troll).
    Trolling ruin the game fun and all efforts.
    We play for fun not frustration.

  5. #5
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    I most of times change my formation 10 sec before the 3 minute limit. Especially when I want to surprise the oppo who is prepared to face my default 4-5-1V. Just did it one hour ago to beat a 15% better 4-3-3. Never been a disadvantage in my case. Quite the contrary.
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    Idk but its dangerous changing in game. Sometimes u get those 1 minute goal and sometimes u score first minute

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by stinkybg View Post
    Idk but its dangerous changing in game. Sometimes u get those 1 minute goal and sometimes u score first minute
    I change my tactics during the match very frequently, the only danger is Pueblo FC destroying yet another opponent.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeManiaque View Post
    You've been tracking it, so what's the data? That's more reliable than a bunch of us who don't track it giving opinions.

    You tracked games, and win-draw-loss totals for the games you did and did not adjust later than 15 minutes to match time were _____.

    IRL, how many changes were made to starting 11 is a frequent point of discussion (or contention) especially when things don't go as planned. Some formula to mimic that wouldn't be dodgy, per se.

    Personally, I've had both ways, heavy training killing a rating, or not affecting at all. Same if the star rating has increased ffor the player.


    Edit: if you think it's "likely" that results are predetermined to any degree, can you answer, practically speaking, why Nordeus would do that? They almost certainly have server and cloud processing on demand, and the formulas used for non-graphical calculations, those behind the stats and goals and events, are almost certainly approaching inconsequential for those kinds of processors. It's not hours long physics modeling calculations. So what's the advantage to processing this ahead of time? We can see visisual changes during the game, so they're calculating some data on the fly... Why not all of it... Like most programs...
    Unfortunately I haven't been tracking it per data point. Has been something i've been keeping note of. I'm goign to start keeping track of it and will let you guys know when I have definitive trends.

    I can't speak for Nordeus's backend but i'm sure their servers can execute every calculation in (near) real time but i'm not convinced. The visual graphics are canned and only reflect maybe 20 different on pitch scenarios. For me, I have seen a scoring animation of a successful cross twice in 8 seasons. I've seen a ball deflected off a keeper to the feet of a striker once. I've had a scripted scenario where "im through on goal and surely will score" once against a level 1 mate in a friendly. My point is, given that we all know the patterns of the animations and how they will ultimately play out suggests that its not a fluid reflection of real time changes. I love the game to bits, but almost every match looks more or less like a rugby scrum at the halfway line, someone eventually taking on a defender and that defender ALWAYS long ball clears it as far as he can (Unless you get the 1 or 2 counter attack animations :P ). Not a complaint per se, an observation that if results are in someway predetermined the animations are more an evidence for it, than against it. Then again it could be that the import of information is faulty.

    Many programmes are designed to have data pulled periodically by the server instead of a client requested push. This reduces upstream server loads. It is possible that the server occasionally fails to request that data pull from the client in a timely fashion, thus having stale data imported into the live game algorithm. Just a thought.

    Thanks for your thoughtful reply though. Also, I agree, dodgy was the wrong to use in the last minute penalty idea.
    Last edited by CobhArsenalFC; 03-16-2017 at 05:16 PM.
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    Getting off topic, but it could be some of the graphics processing is local. We have heard stories of a manager watching a match from 2 accounts simultaneously (the manager account plus a supporting friend), and seeing different animations for the same result, like a FK direct into goal and a FK finished by a second player. Clearly there are limits to the range of animations... But they are yet another unresearched aspect as far as forum managers are concerned. I've meant to start that effort for a few seasons, but lost a bit of motivation. For example, nobody can even tell you, with a hint of data, if the number of animations is consistent per match. That's a very easy starting point. If team A has 60% possession, will they also control the ball in ~60% of the animations?

    Ps- there's so much noise about Nord must be trolling, or crap engine, etc and so few who acknowledge that a team who can coordinate thousands of simultaneous users, secure logins, chat servers, etc could be capable of programming a functional game engine. So thanks for adding a touch of rigour to the discussion.
    Last edited by LeManiaque; 03-16-2017 at 05:35 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeManiaque View Post
    Getting off topic, but it could be some of the graphics processing is local. We have heard stories of a manager watching a match from 2 accounts simultaneously (the manager account plus a supporting friend), and seeing different animations for the same result, like a FK direct into goal and a FK finished by a second player. Clearly there are limits to the range of animations... But they are yet another unresearched aspect as far as forum managers are concerned. I've meant to start that effort for a few seasons, but lost a bit of motivation. For example, nobody can even tell you, with a hint of data, if the number of animations is consistent per match. That's a very easy starting point. If team A has 60% possession, will they also control the ball in ~60% of the animations?

    Ps- there's so much noise about Nord must be trolling, or crap engine, etc and so few who acknowledge that a team who can coordinate thousands of simultaneous users, secure logins, chat servers, etc could be capable of programming a functional game engine. So thanks for adding a touch of rigour to the discussion.
    I'm in IT myself so the thankless 80 hour work weeks are not lost on me. Flaming is counter productive but questioning and gaining consensus on shared trends or behaviours is definitely beneficial to the engine's growth... and of course suggests a community that wants the game to survive for the long run. What's more beneficial though, is me finally winning a bloody treble!

    Anyways, thanks for the tempered discourse.
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