Training.

Are there any plans on changing the training in T11?

It's a bit ridiculous that we have to waste skill points on training a GK's finishing or worse still training outfield players handling!!!!

they too improve outfield player`s handling or the only penalty you will have left is player spitting :)

Handling does not mean hand ball,,,,,,does it?????
I thought it meant. Ball control

maybe, but if u take a good look on it, handling usually is the highest rating for GK defence skills, and the lowest rating for all the other players on their defence skills....so i guess it's more like a GK ability

I have 2MC who have a better handling rating than both my GK's. I have 4 defenders who are only 1 handling rating below my GK's. My 2 GK's are better at crossing than my 4 FB's.

My point is that there are far too many wasted skill points in the training and needs changing. Skill points are not that easy to get and when they are wasted on my MC's handling then it's really ridiculous.

Eh, I doubt handling is a specific goalkeeper's statistic. Handling more likely refers to all kind of ball control, so it's really not useless at all for any position. At least in real life a player who can handle a ball well makes less mistakes and has a better first touch.

My GK 18 years old, still very weak in terms of experience

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Originally Posted by Killerbee

Eh, I doubt handling is a specific goalkeeper's statistic. Handling more likely refers to all kind of ball control, so it's really not useless at all for any position. At least in real life a player who can handle a ball well makes less mistakes and has a better first touch.

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You are spot-on. Handling in football in general means how and where on the body to hold the football so that it is protected in running and tackling situations. The handling skill is not a GK specific skill.

made more sense after i read through the thread
why not have it this way 'handling/ball control'
makes more sense TBH

Killerbee...Marc....Rubbish. Handling means hands. I have never heard anyone anywhere including pundits on TV say 'what great handling by that midfielder' when describing how well a player has kept a ball. When I played football my coaches never said go and practice your handling.

I have heard TV pundits describe what great ball control a player has when describing how well a player kept the ball and I was always told to practice my ball control.

Handling is also a very big and specific thing that GK's practice.

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Originally Posted by BigB79

Killerbee...Marc....Rubbish. Handling means hands. I have never heard anyone anywhere including pundits on TV say 'what great handling by that midfielder' when describing how well a player has kept a ball. When I played football my coaches never said go and practice your handling.

I have heard TV pundits describe what great ball control a player has when describing how well a player kept the ball and I was always told to practice my ball control.

Handling is also a very big and specific thing that GK's practice.

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Eh, it being rubbish is your opinion and completely silly in my eyes since you have no evidence whatsoever to back up your claim. What other statistic do you see that would refer to a player's ball control then? That's right, none. Handling is clearly meant for both the definition of touching, grasping, or using with the hands (for GK) as the manner of treating or dealing with the ball (for everyone).

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Originally Posted by Killerbee

Eh, it being rubbish is your opinion and completely silly in my eyes since you have no evidence whatsoever to back up your claim. What other statistic do you see that would refer to a player's ball control then? That's right, none. Handling is clearly meant for both the definition of touching, grasping, or using with the hands (for GK) as the manner of treating or dealing with the ball (for everyone).

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When have you ever heard a manager, a player, a TV pundit or anyone in football saying an outfield player 'handling a ball well' when describing a players ball control? I have heard plenty people talking about a GK's handling.If handling does mean a players ball control then it shows Nordeus no absolutely nothing about football.

So why do GK's have to gain skill points for finishing or heading? Just because there is no specific ball control training doesn't mean it's in handling, it means Nordeus don't know what they are doing.

In Portuguese version handlig is translated to "posse de bola" that means capacity to keep the ball in your possession without losing it.

So nothing to do with GK, just to capacity to dosent lose the ball whend the oponent is pressing you.

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Originally Posted by BigB79

When have you ever heard a manager, a player, a TV pundit or anyone in football saying an outfield player 'handling a ball well' when describing a players ball control? I have heard plenty people talking about a GK's handling.If handling does mean a players ball control then it shows Nordeus no absolutely nothing about football.

So why do GK's have to gain skill points for finishing or heading? Just because there is no specific ball control training doesn't mean it's in handling, it means Nordeus don't know what they are doing.

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You take the definitions far too serious. Just cause the commentary you listen to never uses the word 'handling' doesn't mean that nobody ever says a (field) player is good at handling/controlling the ball. On top the creators of the game are not from England, so they may use more literal meanings for words than the words that are used in common speech. As Dman2pt says, the translation is different in other languages.

Also the training points are all relative. Sure you spend points on other skills than a GK uses, but all that means is that it takes less points in handling/positioning/passing/crossing/aggression/speed to make a difference to the performance of a GK. Developers can add totally useless or random numbers to the game and still keep it balanced. All that matters is that they sufficiently raise the performance of the GK as you train him (more in defense/mental than attack obviously).

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Originally Posted by BigB79

Killerbee...Marc....Rubbish. Handling means hands. I have never heard anyone anywhere including pundits on TV say 'what great handling by that midfielder' when describing how well a player has kept a ball. When I played football my coaches never said go and practice your handling.

I have heard TV pundits describe what great ball control a player has when describing how well a player kept the ball and I was always told to practice my ball control.

Handling is also a very big and specific thing that GK's practice.

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Common man....handling is not to be taken in the literal sense. Its how you 'handle' the ball, that means how you control the ball. Just like how u 'handle any situation' doesn't mean u go about putting hand in between anything, it means controlling the situation. That shouldn't cause any confusion.
BTW, Dman2PT proved the point with his translation.

In Italian it has been translated to Press which according to GT means grabbing, grip, clutch, hold, seizure, holdfast. This is enuf to explain in my opinion.
P.S GT may be wrong when translating long sentences as it makes grammatical errors, but it is correct in such situations.

In Swedish, the skill would translate to "saving" (with equal strange grammatical use of the verb) which would suggest its for goal keepers only. And Why would a gk need heading?

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Originally Posted by kefka

In Swedish, the skill would translate to "saving" (with equal strange grammatical use of the verb) which would suggest its for goal keepers only. And Why would a gk need heading?

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Heading is another one, we are talking about the last one, handling.

I also don't understand why STs need marking and tackling, handling and heading should b the attributes needed. Heading for corners and handling as it is important to control the ball so handling will complement finishing.

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Originally Posted by Dman2pt

Heading is another one, we are talking about the last one, handling.

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Sorry if i was unclear, the skill that in english reads "handling" reads "räddning" in swedish which means saving. Sorry for mixing it with another stupid game mechanic

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Originally Posted by BigB79

Killerbee...Marc....Rubbish. Handling means hands. I have never heard anyone anywhere including pundits on TV say 'what great handling by that midfielder' when describing how well a player has kept a ball. When I played football my coaches never said go and practice your handling.

I have heard TV pundits describe what great ball control a player has when describing how well a player kept the ball and I was always told to practice my ball control.

Handling is also a very big and specific thing that GK's practice.

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I would do your homework before trying to take on me my friend. So you have never heard a pundit say " oh he handled that well" ? Even google it if you must! Anyone that knows there football in-depth will know and agree with me.

The word Handling is more of an American football term but still my points remains the same.

First page of google:

football - How can I improve my ball handling? - Sports Stack Exchange

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Originally Posted by Saransh Vatsa

I also don't understand why STs need marking and tackling, handling and heading should b the attributes needed. Heading for corners and handling as it is important to control the ball so handling will complement finishing.

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Well, every player needs to have a basic grasp of marking and tackling. Attackers need to press when not in possession as well. If an attacker is good at pressing and tackling, they can force mistakes on enemies leading to winning the ball and creating good counters, so it makes a decent amount of sense I think.

Interesting the translations, how they have slightly different connotations. I was thinking it mean ball control, so it would include actual handling, as in toss ins, for fielders, and goal keeper's handling/grasping/tossing.
(And I can think of several GK that can finish, such as in a penalty kick, quite well. It just means they are great athletes. :))

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Originally Posted by Marc Symons

I would do your homework before trying to take on me my friend. So you have never heard a pundit say " oh he handled that well" ? Even google it if you must! Anyone that knows there football in-depth will know and agree with me.

The word Handling is more of an American football term but still my points remains the same.

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I think after 15 years involved in professional football ive more than done my homework my friend.

When have you heard a pundit describe a players ball control as 'handling'? When have you heard a pundit say "what great handling that player showed" when a player has shown great ball control?

And if you play this on your PC and look in the top right hand corner you will see it ask what language you wish to use and in that you will see the British flag next to the english language which means this game is written in the Queen's English not American English.

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Originally Posted by Marc Symons

First page of google:

football - How can I improve my ball handling? - Sports Stack Exchange

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Seriously this is your 'evidence', who are these people? Americans? Once again the game is written in British English.

What exactly did you search for in google?

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Originally Posted by Killerbee

Well, every player needs to have a basic grasp of marking and tackling. Attackers need to press when not in possession as well. If an attacker is good at pressing and tackling, they can force mistakes on enemies leading to winning the ball and creating good counters, so it makes a decent amount of sense I think.

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I agree with you that ST need to have some skill in marking and tackling but does a GK need to practice heading,dribbling,crossing or on his creativity? And even they do do they need to have such high ratings?

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Originally Posted by BigB79

I think after 15 years involved in professional football ive more than done my homework my friend.

When have you heard a pundit describe a players ball control as 'handling'? When have you heard a pundit say "what great handling that player showed" when a player has shown great ball control?

And if you play this on your PC and look in the top right hand corner you will see it ask what language you wish to use and in that you will see the British flag next to the english language which means this game is written in the Queen's English not American English.





Seriously this is your 'evidence', who are these people? Americans? Once again the game is written in British English.

What exactly did you search for in google?

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Im not going to get into a long drawn out debate about something that is so minor and obvious. It just tickled me that after "after 15 years involved in professional football" you did't know that 'Handling' is a training/tactical term used in both England and America in regards to all players on the pitch.

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Originally Posted by Marc Symons

Im not going to get into a long drawn out debate about something that is so minor and obvious. It just tickled me that after "after 15 years involved in professional football" you did't know that 'Handling' is a training/tactical term used in both England and America in regards to all players on the pitch.

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No it's not, and it's certainly not used in training or tactical terms to describe a players ball control. And I played football in England and I really don't care what they say in America because they say alot of things differently and this game isn't written for Americans.

Are you not going to answer me. What exactly did you google?

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Originally Posted by BigB79

No it's not, and it's certainly not used in training or tactical terms to describe a players ball control. And I played football in England and I really don't care what they say in America because they say alot of things differently and this game isn't written for Americans.

Are you not going to answer me. What exactly did you google?

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Nordeus is a Serbian developing company and they distribute 'Top 11' Worldwide. They have two offices, they are in Belgrade and San Francisco. Oh wait a minute did i say San Francisco? That would then also make them American based, therefore I would say this game is very much written by/for Americans too.

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Originally Posted by Marc Symons

Nordeus is a Serbian developing company and they distribute 'Top 11' Worldwide. They have two offices, they are in Belgrade and San Francisco. Oh wait a minute did i say San Francisco? That would then also make them American based, therefore I would say this game is very much written by/for Americans too.

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If your going to try and hit me with facts at least give the full facts!!!! They have FOUR offices and one is in Dublin!!!!! I know all about Nordeus and who they are so don't try and get smart with me. And once again look at the top right hand corner and you will see it's a British flag next to the English language not American and they are different. Also if the game was written by and for Americans then in the game description it would be called soccer not football.

And once again what was it you googled and what exactly was it you wanted me to Google to prove your point?

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Originally Posted by Killerbee

Well, every player needs to have a basic grasp of marking and tackling. Attackers need to press when not in possession as well. If an attacker is good at pressing and tackling, they can force mistakes on enemies leading to winning the ball and creating good counters, so it makes a decent amount of sense I think.

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Hmmmmm..... But the ratio 1:1:1:1 b/w handling, heading, tackling and marking is too much. IMO, it should be 4:4:7:7

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Originally Posted by BigB79

If your going to try and hit me with facts at least give the full facts!!!! They have FOUR offices and one is in Dublin!!!!! I know all about Nordeus and who they are so don't try and get smart with me. And once again look at the top right hand corner and you will see it's a British flag next to the English language not American and they are different. Also if the game was written by and for Americans then in the game description it would be called soccer not football.

And once again what was it you googled and what exactly was it you wanted me to Google to prove your point?

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Lets not forget that all in-game cash is in dollars :) ;)

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Originally Posted by Marc Symons

Lets not forget that all in-game cash is in dollars :) ;)

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Are you not going to tell me what you googled and what it was exactly you wanted me to google that proved your point?

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Originally Posted by BigB79

I agree with you that ST need to have some skill in marking and tackling but does a GK need to practice heading,dribbling,crossing or on his creativity? And even they do do they need to have such high ratings?

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Heading is fine, just in case he decides to head a corner off, creativity shud be there according to me, not sure but i think the GK need to be creative in thinking so as to read the shot well. Ya, Dribbling and crossing is totally unnecessary. The GK won't be going on solo runs so why does he need dribbling. And crossing???? Is he playing winger. Even 5 or 10 in both these stats shall work. After that, no more skill point shud get allotted to them.

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Originally Posted by Saransh Vatsa

Heading is fine, just in case he decides to head a corner off, creativity shud be there according to me, not sure but i think the GK need to be creative in thinking so as to read the shot well. Ya, Dribbling and crossing is totally unnecessary. The GK won't be going on solo runs so why does he need dribbling. And crossing???? Is he playing winger. Even 5 or 10 in both these stats shall work. After that, no more skill point shud get allotted to them.

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And what good would this do? Then you get a GK with 100 positioning, 100 handling, 5 tackling, 5 marking and 5 heading. And what happens then? He either keeps a clean sheet forever OR Nordeus adjusts the handling and positioning stats to have less impact so that the result stays the same. I'm gonna put my money on the latter, hence this change is totally useless and not relevant at all. It's all relative, so it doesn't matter where the skillpoints go as long as the quality and performance is improved when training.

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Originally Posted by Marc Symons

You are spot-on. Handling in football in general means how and where on the body to hold the football so that it is protected in running and tackling situations. The handling skill is not a GK specific skill.

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Isnt that called shielding ??

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Originally Posted by Killerbee

And what good would this do? Then you get a GK with 100 positioning, 100 handling, 5 tackling, 5 marking and 5 heading. And what happens then? He either keeps a clean sheet forever OR Nordeus adjusts the handling and positioning stats to have less impact so that the result stays the same. I'm gonna put my money on the latter, hence this change is totally useless and not relevant at all. It's all relative, so it doesn't matter where the skillpoints go as long as the quality and performance is improved when training.

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O.K agreed. But the point here is that even if Q increases, skill points are wasted on some irrevelant things which the player does not require according to his position. Like if u see, as for MC and ST, MC has higher dribbling and crossing while ST has higher finishing and shooting, even if they have same Q. But, if u see, MC needs a hang of all the attributes. But as in case of GK, why does his dribbling need to be the same as his positioning??? Alright, 10 is too less, agreed but that being equal to others is a bit too much, u got to agree with me here.

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Originally Posted by Saransh Vatsa

O.K agreed. But the point here is that even if Q increases, skill points are wasted on some irrevelant things which the player does not require according to his position. Like if u see, as for MC and ST, MC has higher dribbling and crossing while ST has higher finishing and shooting, even if they have same Q. But, if u see, MC needs a hang of all the attributes. But as in case of GK, why does his dribbling need to be the same as his positioning??? Alright, 10 is too less, agreed but that being equal to others is a bit too much, u got to agree with me here.

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I agree with you on your entire point, you misunderstand me:).

I'm just saying that the game gets balanced around the training points we spend now. If they lowered the amount of 'useless' skills, GK would get overpowered and they would just balance it to make GK as strong as they are now. So it makes no real difference.

Also, most players are generated with a balanced amount of skillpoints (like scouts who have pretty much all stats spread). If training could give you more useful skill-points, then it would be hard for any new GK to be better than one you've been training.

I think you guys are over thinking. I don't believe the game engine is that evolved.

In my opinion, handling is a GK ability. Even if you translate it more loosely, to ball control, still makes no sense that such a skill would be included in the defensive skills. An offensive player normally has better ball control than a defensive player.

Why do you have to train useless stats? It's the easiest way to balance the game and avoid having to code heavier algorithms to deal with normalization and potential exploits. Just like the illegal formations, that keep you from exploiting some unreasonably unbalanced formation. In the same area, you can't choose what skill you'll train. Just between Defense/Offense/Physical, keeping the skills within these groups balanced. And, once again, they balance these groups not allowing them to differ more than 20 points.

This is my opinion... It's coded like this, because it's easier to code.

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Originally Posted by Flinger

I think you guys are over thinking. I don't believe the game engine is that evolved.

In my opinion, handling is a GK ability. Even if you translate it more loosely, to ball control, still makes no sense that such a skill would be included in the defensive skills. An offensive player normally has better ball control than a defensive player.

Why do you have to train useless stats? It's the easiest way to balance the game and avoid having to code heavier algorithms to deal with normalization and potential exploits. Just like the illegal formations, that keep you from exploiting some unreasonably unbalanced formation. In the same area, you can't choose what skill you'll train. Just between Defense/Offense/Physical, keeping the skills within these groups balanced. And, once again, they balance these groups not allowing them to differ more than 20 points.

This is my opinion... It's coded like this, because it's easier to code.

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Hmmmmmm..... Maybe.... And as u all know the game is too light weight occupying only 20 MB. So this may be the reason for the light weight code and we all knoit is not a complex game engine involved. There are many theories.......