A subject to think about

[khris]

i understand that playing against the same team during the season can vary for many things like players levels change and many other factor , but here i'm speaking about playing against same team 2 times in the same day same formation same players,even same stadium almost same everything,maybe it doesn't matter if in the same day or month the result always varies

Why shold be the same result if one play same day and different if 2 weeks passed?.... the thing is, that the game say:
-ok, new match:
lets choose a scenario, things to use to determine the scenario;
Q, morale, condition, internal % of contribution of every player(if tend to appear more or less) agressiveness of every one, nº of corners/freekicks/penalties (if corect player shoot, oes well, if not, bad), determinant players that will appear and these who will not contribute (so to be substituted)... bonus... there are many, many things and info and variables that can do of one match something completly different to the others... and many things we dont know xD

[nikolgiorgos]

why i asked this question ? i had a team in my league that i won against 3-1 and lost against 5-2 in the cup so i'm trying to find a logic

when I 'm talking about orders I mean the whole pack.
In those games for example, oppo maybe had normal ment. in the first game and in the second game switched to defense/counter.
It's very difficult to recognize oppo teams orders in the game.

There are many factors , some of them maybe couldn't imagine.
For example here
http://forum.topeleven.com/top-eleve...eleven-12.html
was thinking the possibility that some players performing better in specific competitions.

[Buster Keaton]

A great factor is when they launch a update middle in the season

then you can reorganize your team completely and to play friendlies to understand your team behaviour again

this way you can lose important matches when they launch a update en you dont reorganize your team

[Andrew Nifield]

You must be a pretty terrible manager if you play 2 games against the same guy, lose and play the same tactics the second time around. There will always be randomness - but it's silly to constantly debate information we don't have access to.

Nothing much changed for me with the update, though I was surprised I won one of my 4 matches since then, and by a large margin...it hasn't changed anything for me. It will be interesting with the new rests sitaution, I imagine people will be VPNing the hell out of the game now!

[nash123]

I imagine people will be VPNing the hell out of the game now!

Why? I think, that will not work.

[Andrew Nifield]

It works, or they wouldn't be talking about banning people for it.

[cookizzz]

Does it ever happen to you that you play against the same team in the same day or 2 days where you face it in the league and cup or cl ,

but the thing here even if you both play with same formation during the 3-4 matches the results is never the same it means you can win against him in the league and lose against him in the cup in the same day, while playing with the same formation and nothing has changed .


is this top eleven trying to be realistic ? because before i thought the game has a big data base of same scenarios where teams with specifics formation and quality loses or win against others .

I just encounter this situation. But I used different formation. So I don't have relevant information for your reference.

I don't think match result must be the same in situation you mentioned. Conditions of 2 matches are hardly identical. You should ascertain conditions like player morale, conditions, in match tactic changes, etc. of your team as well as your opponents are identical.

Game will be boring if there is no randomness.

[Tactician]

I just encounter this situation. But I used different formation. So I don't have relevant information for your reference.

I don't think match result must be the same in situation you mentioned. Conditions of 2 matches are hardly identical. You should ascertain conditions like player morale, conditions, in match tactic changes, etc. of your team as well as your opponents are identical.

Game will be boring if there is no randomness.

But it is non-appropriate if there is too much randomness involved (which is likely to be the case in Top Eleven). This is probably why there are so many complaints about strange results, non-acceptable results or 'troll' results in this game; such results (let's called them surprise results) have occurred more than they should. Like I have said, if two teams of equal quality are made to play against each other for say 10 times, where all the other factors that can be controlled by the manager are kept constant (tactics, condition, morale and so on), the team using the superior tactics must have the majority of the wins (not 50-50 or so like it seems to be in this game). Randomness can be used to try and simulate the outcomes like they might happen in real life, but when too much randomness is involved, the outcomes deviate from what is expected in real life, that is there are too many surprises or anomalies. So, briefly, the probable problem in this game is that randomness has been given too much significance for deciding match results.

[cookizzz]

But it is non-appropriate if there is too much randomness involved (which is likely to be the case in Top Eleven). This is probably why there are so many complaints about strange results, non-acceptable results or 'troll' results in this game; such results (let's called them surprise results) have occurred more than they should. Like I have said, if two teams of equal quality are made to play against each other for say 10 times, where all the other factors that can be controlled by the manager are kept constant (tactics, condition, morale and so on), the team using the superior tactics must have the majority of the wins (not 50-50 or so like it seems to be in this game). Randomness can be used to try and simulate the outcomes like they might happen in real life, but when too much randomness is involved, the outcomes deviate from what is expected in real life, that is there are too many surprises or anomalies. So, briefly, the probable problem in this game is that randomness has been given too much significance for deciding match results.

I don't rule out existence of troll or surprise results. Just want to remind some complaining managers that we may not access all factors which affect match results.

I have not studied the cases of recent troll results. Do some managers report surprise positive results? Do complaining managers encounter both positive and negative surprise results? Do some managers report that after a series of negative surprise results, they encounter some positive surprise results?

Edit:
One of my teams have roller coaster like up & down in last 2 seasons. These may not be those surprise results as you mentioned but these could be shared for your information.

In last season, this team opened the season with 6 losses in a row. I did not think my team badly played in this period and should have won some of these matches. The team still struggled in 1st half season and finished at bottom of table at half season point. In the 2nd half season, its performance improved without significant player or tactic changes. At one point it has good chance to reach 2nd place. But its performance suddenly worsened in last 2 or 3 days. It eventually finished at 6th (or 5th).

In this season, this team have no roster change except upgrading 2 attacking players 3 or 4 days ago. It unexpectedly well started the season with 8W 0D 1L. Most previous league matches were not so easy but my team could win. But these results are not fully surprising because average qualities in my league in this season were lower.

[Tactician]

Cookizzz, I replied for the 'concern' in general, that is not specifically to your post.

I think that football managerial skills should matter more than randomness when it comes to a football management game. Randomness should only be there for the element of surprise just like it is in real football, and also to mimic how the results happen in real life. But some users (probably not you cookizzz) will always try to argue, justify or say things against this because of the fact that they are not very good or even good at football management and tactics (some are not even decent). In other words, such users prefer to have the results based more on 'rolls of dices', where not much skill is required, as this is to their advantage.

Some users also prefer to have the results based on quality only, which is 'nonsense' in terms of football logic, but they want it like this because they want it 'simple' and want to win easily without requiring much tactical skills.

Some users prefer to have the results based mostly on quality and on 'rolls of dices', again probably because they are not good enough in football tactics.

All those three cases and other similar cases are understandable. It is natural for someone to have something that functions in such a way that he gets advantages. But, this does not mean that this particular way of functioning is appropriate.

I prefer a game based more on skills and hard work rather than 'luck'. Also, football is game based mostly on skills and hard work - the players skills, the managers skills and the other members of staff skills; generally, 'luck' plays only a minor part.