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Thread: Star player losing form

  1. #11
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    A new player, with more contributive power, can change the Contributive Roles list that the game assign, and a new player, can eclipse another you have.
    This happened to me many times, or the same when I kept old players as reserves, that had by default a very contributive role, as they were key players that even with 3* where able to score... and, having these roles already covered -roles of contribution inside the team, which are limited to create realism- I couldnt buy a new ST and see him as key player or even high contributive. I needed to liberate space, -so free contribution spots/roles- till the game assigned, to a new ST the power I wanted for him.

    All is calibrated by the engine, so, this happens.
    With contributive role I mean, the Internal programming power that the game assign to each player, so, some are key players scoring assisting 1 time per match, others in alternate matches... the FKs man too is chosen and have a role assigned by the engine to be the best man usually, for some weeks,,, etc**

    So any external/visual movement, moves the team configuration Internally.

  2. #12
    Apprentice king7eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    For curiosity, did this happened after a new player signing? or you still having same team and this was all of sudden?
    Just all of a sudden. I added a new right back early in the season. The rest are the same player from last season. Just did couple of friendlies. 1st match nothing. 2nd friendly game I change his position to AML (his playing position AMR/AMC/AML), he scored 2 with rating 9.5. Is there any logic that player with multiple position must be rotated at some point? I played him on the right all the time.

    train hard, play smart
    Last edited by king7eric; 09-30-2019 at 03:04 PM.

  3. #13
    Elite Tactician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    A new player, with more contributive power, can change the Contributive Roles list that the game assign, and a new player, can eclipse another you have.
    This happened to me many times, or the same when I kept old players as reserves, that had by default a very contributive role, as they were key players that even with 3* where able to score... and, having these roles already covered -roles of contribution inside the team, which are limited to create realism- I couldnt buy a new ST and see him as key player or even high contributive. I needed to liberate space, -so free contribution spots/roles- till the game assigned, to a new ST the power I wanted for him.

    All is calibrated by the engine, so, this happens.
    Say you have a team of 11 first team players, and 8 reserves. You go buy a new player because you think, as a manager, you lack cover say in the MC area. In your main formation, you use 2 MCs, and with the new MC, you have a total of 4. Suppose this new MC has been given more contributive power, how is that suppose to affect your team? This is **** game mechanics (but something which I will not deny that does not exists because it is plausible).

    Now, you as manager you found out that the new MC has more contributive power, but you bought him for cover, which means he could be a poorer quality player, a slow trainer or he could be even on the good side - fast trainer and with good quality. What do you do? Do you drop your 7-star MC for the 5 star slow training MC? Ok, suppose you brought the new player in the first team, but the player that got affected due to this plausible **** game system is the 7-star AMR in your team, now what you do? Do you go train that slow training MC to AMC then AMR? See my point... this thing promotes negative playing if it exists in this game.

    Maybe Nik can comment on this because he is more experienced in buying and selling players, and he even been selling high quality ones if needed.
    Last edited by Tactician; 09-30-2019 at 03:08 PM.
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  4. #14
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king7eric View Post
    Just all of a sudden. I added a new right back early in the season. The rest are the same player from last season. Just did couple of friendlies. 1st match nothing. 2nd friendly game I change his position to AML (his playing position AMR/AMC/AML), he scored 2 with rating 9.5. Is there any logic that player with multiple position must be rotated at some point?

    train hard, play smart
    No, usually those who have multiple positions, perform better in a specific one, cause this depend of the other players, and the own game I guess that assign a position inside your team, that you need to cover with a contributive player to see your team playing fluidly and, that particular player, scoring from there.

    many managers have like...2-3 positions that perform at highest level, and many times when you have, a AML, and a AMC as key players + for example, a DL+MC that tend to score 50% matches, then the STs and, the AMR can't catch the performance of these....

    Then people comes here complaining cause, my ST dont score, but, usually they have 3-4 players that are doing the job in terms of providing goals/assists.
    Is a matter of space, and limited contribution roles, basically.

  5. #15
    Apprentice king7eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    A new player, with more contributive power, can change the Contributive Roles list that the game assign, and a new player, can eclipse another you have.
    This happened to me many times, or the same when I kept old players as reserves, that had by default a very contributive role, as they were key players that even with 3* where able to score... and, having these roles already covered -roles of contribution inside the team, which are limited to create realism- I couldnt buy a new ST and see him as key player or even high contributive. I needed to liberate space, -so free contribution spots/roles- till the game assigned, to a new ST the power I wanted for him.

    All is calibrated by the engine, so, this happens.
    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    With contributive role I mean, the Internal programming power that the game assign to each player, so, some are key players scoring assisting 1 time per match, others in alternate matches... the FKs man too is chosen and have a role assigned by the engine to be the best man usually, for some weeks,,, etc**

    So any external/visual movement, moves the team configuration Internally.
    I need to understand more on this game. Very nice info. Thanks Khris for sharing this

    train hard, play smart
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  6. #16
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactician View Post
    Say you have a team of 11 first team players, and 8 reserves. You go buy a new player because you think, as a manager, you lack cover say in the MC area. In your main formation, you use 2 MCs, and with the new MC, you have a total of 4. Suppose this new has been given more contributive power, how is that suppose to affect your team? This is **** game mechanics (but something which I will not deny that does not exists because it is plausible).

    Now, you as manager you found out that the new MC has more contributive power, but you bought him for cover, which means he could be a poorer quality player, a slow trainer or he could be even on the good side - fast trainer and with good quality. What do you do? Do you drop your 7-star MC for the 5 star slow training MC? Ok, suppose you brought the new player in the first team, but the player that got affected due to this plausible **** game system is the 7 star AMR in your team, now what you do? See my point, this thing promotes negative playing if it exists in this game.
    I always say the same, you can not create a key player, just picking a random player from the market and training the visual skills, because the internal programming power is way higher.
    We already know that a 1% speed DC can cover a 200% speed ST, so?

    That's how it works, your job as manager, is try to understand this, know your players, test them, and choose the better options, using your perception and checking out how they perform despite the skills they have visually.

  7. #17
    Elite Tactician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    I always say the same, you can not create a key player, just picking a random player from the market and training the visual skills, because the internal programming power is way higher.
    We already know that a 1% speed DC can cover a 200% speed ST, so?

    That's how it works, your job as manager, is try to understand this, know your players, test them, and choose the better options, using your perception and checking out how they perform despite the skills they have visually.
    Yeah but what is a user supposed to do in the above case I described. The user bought an MC for cover, but the game decided the new but slow training, old MC to be the key man and nerfed his AMR. What is the user supposed to do in that case? That will be really annoying and even enraging if such things happen. This game clearly needs a better AI. Clearly, if such things happen, the game penalises the user for making good managment decisions. For example, in the case I have given, the user made the best decision to buy another MC as cover because he has only 3, but then he gets penalised for doing so, that too by affecting one of his first team players that has not been even assigned that position. This will be a sort of never ending thing where the user will keep buying players to counter this effect, but the game will keep playing dirty tricks on him by affecting other good players in his team.
    Last edited by Tactician; 09-30-2019 at 03:23 PM.

  8. #18
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactician View Post
    sic.

    If this calibration, in the contributive roles happens, when we buy a player, is to create realism, cause the "team contribution" mathematically, always will have a limit.

    So, this limit, needs to be re-distributed once a new player joins your squad, and a new player, with high capability of contribution, inside a team that during the season already have a limited Max. that can achieve -wins, goals etc- this means that someone needs to loose in order to keep this limit.

    You cant buy 10 players that scored 40 goals each one the last season, and see them doing the same for you, scoring, 400 goals, 40 x10 because, the game works in that way, doing a limitation of contribution by assigning roles of contribution, that are fluctuating with new signings cause this touch the internal team configuration.

  9. #19
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactician View Post
    Yeah but what is a user supposed to do in the above case I described. The user bought an MC for cover, but **** game decided the new but slow training, old MC to be the key man and nerfed his AMR. What is the user supposed to do in that case? That will be really annoying and even enraging if such things happen. This game clearly needs a better AI.
    Simply, you can not create a key player right? cause it needs to be well programmed, so, if you buy a player, to cover, but performs better, you should do the same as a real coach. Use him in the main 11.

  10. #20
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    Simply, you can not create a key player right? cause it needs to be well programmed, so, if you buy a player, to cover, but performs better, you should do the same as a real coach. Use him in the main 11.
    Then, if a slow trainer, with 5* scores 1 goal per match, and your actual main player, fast trainer, with 7*'s or even 8, score 3 goals or 20 in a season, why would you pick the lowest contributive?

    Im telling constantly that visual skills afect slightly,, as visual team AvQ is only used to determine the distance in avq between 2 teams and this selects the scenario/chances...

    And, once the scenario is selected, what you need is a fluid game, with assists, goals etc... and players with high contributive roles with options to score in each chance, so....

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