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Thread: Why manipulating draws might actually diminish your fun

  1. #1
    Famous Der_Ryan_M's Avatar
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    Why manipulating draws might actually diminish your fun

    Now, this is a story all about how my top eleven game experience got flipped-turned upside down and I'd like to take a minute just sit right there I'll tell you how I became a better player and have more fun in the game, just by not-manipulating draws and taking on challenging opponents. (Kudos to those who see what I did here)
    Also maybe want to hear your opinions on the subject, maybe you can convince me of the opposite (again).

    So long story short, in facebook groups and here on forum I see so many people who seem to get their enjoyment out of this game by beating abandoned teams and getting good statistics plus filling their trophy cabinet with cups, that, if you think about don't mean that much to be honest, they just look good.

    Well, for a long time I was also of the opinion that this might be cool and I even opened a second club (because my normal club already had a fairly bad statistic, because I played this game like a noob for a long time) and started to play like a "pro".
    After 10 or 12 seasons or so, I almost won every trophy, some trebles, had an insane record and a player who scored almost 1000 goals by the age of 26. And I was getting bored, thinking to myself - why am I doing this and really there is nothing that special about it...

    Don't get me wrong, from my time on this account, I know that it is not like really easy to win every trophy every season, you need to train and manage your ressources and you might get the odd hard opponent here and there as well, even as a manipulator. But these are mostly like the finals and if you are still the stronger team then and happen to lose one, you only feel disappointment, because you are so used to winning every game.

    But what if I tell you, that you probably miss out on so much fun and so many things in this game by playing this way?

    For the last 2 seasons on my main account I did take on the challenge. First season it was by accident as well, because I was testing the new youth academy and their players' quality put me in the strong league, cup and so on. But you know, I somehow enjoyed it.
    There is no better feeling in this game than winning as the underdog. Not expecting much, playing against a level higher 10% better guy in cup, who is also active and watching the game and then leading 4-0 with your well trained and tactically set-up team, while he is trying to gain control with a sub and so on.
    It's the stuff you miss out on when playing against bots. It really brings out a competitive aspect in the game, that is quite enjoyable I have to say. I'm at 131% now, the highest I have been in a longshot and I compete vs 140% guys (a level higher) in cup and CL.
    In my league is a 143% former tanker, who did win the league last season and I had no chance. Currently I'm only one point behind him and it's a classy title race.

    You just feel so much better beating the big guns compared to beating bots. And also less disappointment when you get beaten here and there by another good player. I wouldn't have thought it, I must say.
    Also it really makes you see the entire game from another perspective again and it makes you a better player, being able to adapt to your opponents. Therefor you win less trophies, but who cares... The statistics on my main team are bad anyway. And always good to beat a trophy hunter in associations then, when he has to play vs a similiar quality player.

    You know, I don't say all of you should do it. If you have fun playing the way you do, keep on. I found it nice for a while, I might come back to manipulating when I feel like it. But you might miss out on something, just saying...
    milpol, khris, HeavensAAA and 4 others like this.

  2. #2
    Pro Sillybq's Avatar
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    We can have multiple accounts so we can have fun in different ways. I only have 1 other account and it's a stress free account. I try different things and have fun with it. My personal objective for that account is to never ever win a trophy with it. No need to train, watch videos and watch matches. Even so, it's wasn't that easy. Had to set tanking formation at times. Sometimes the game just hands trophies to you at early levels without the need to manipulate.

    Also next season, the first team for that account would be 100 percent YA produced so it will be fun seeing how they do without any help or intervention. Ok I will intervene if they are close to winning anything.

    But with regards to playing with the big boys and fighting it out. I will give it a miss. Had tons of that in Top Soccer Manager where manipulation is the norm and there are few bots. It ain't fun losing after all the hard work and effort. You just end up jaded and feel like quitting.
    Last edited by Sillybq; 02-19-2020 at 06:51 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Totally and surely have that same feeling, and that is also exactly why I have joined the current platinum association and stayed there despite being a constant fight against relegation for all 4 seasons in a row (asso always finish within 1350 and 1400 points, and none are tankers , so it is easy to imagine what the pressure of getting 250 points every season could be like).

    Even worse is that 50%+ of the time my asso match-up would be at least 5%-8% better (another 25% about 3%-5% better, and only 4 opponents were worse [can really count as they were so rare]), so it really forces me to set up and master on how to win via counter against opponents of up to 10% better, and also properly build my team to win by those 7-0 or higher margins in all other daily matches with a 20%+ advantage. Semis and finals opponents are tough too, as it is very normal to be drawn with similarly draw manipulating managers too.

    This is probably the most balanced approach that I personally would take when I would like to:
    1) Win all trophies - to show (off ) competitiveness
    2) Maintain platinum with the current fight-for-survival association - for the Ts reward, and also a very good weekly training ground against better opponents
    3) Aim for a minimum 7-0 wins or higher for every daily matches with 20%+ advantage by testing all different formations, tactics and in-game substitutions possible (the ‘default’ margin is about 4 to. 5-nil, and getting 10-0 wins is a sign of doing the right thing)
    4) Achieve some great 300-game unbeaten run or 100+ winning run would be fantastic
    5) Keep manipulating draws to save resources until it doesn’t work (when it gets to higher level, this won’t work anyway)

    As you say, each of us value trophies, achieving records, company within associations, and very probably winning an unlikely trophy by beating opponents as an underdog differently. Each of those has its own sense of achievement and enjoyment within too.
    Der_Ryan_M and Sillybq like this.

    AAAFC - Manager Level 8

  4. #4
    Champion Max McClean's Avatar
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    Why manipulating draws might actually diminish your fun

    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Ryan_M View Post
    Now, this is a story all about how my top eleven game experience got flipped-turned upside down and I'd like to take a minute just sit right there I'll tell you how I became a better player and have more fun in the game, just by not-manipulating draws and taking on challenging opponents. (Kudos to those who see what I did here)
    Also maybe want to hear your opinions on the subject, maybe you can convince me of the opposite (again).

    So long story short, in facebook groups and here on forum I see so many people who seem to get their enjoyment out of this game by beating abandoned teams and getting good statistics plus filling their trophy cabinet with cups, that, if you think about don't mean that much to be honest, they just look good.

    Well, for a long time I was also of the opinion that this might be cool and I even opened a second club (because my normal club already had a fairly bad statistic, because I played this game like a noob for a long time) and started to play like a "pro".
    After 10 or 12 seasons or so, I almost won every trophy, some trebles, had an insane record and a player who scored almost 1000 goals by the age of 26. And I was getting bored, thinking to myself - why am I doing this and really there is nothing that special about it...

    Don't get me wrong, from my time on this account, I know that it is not like really easy to win every trophy every season, you need to train and manage your ressources and you might get the odd hard opponent here and there as well, even as a manipulator. But these are mostly like the finals and if you are still the stronger team then and happen to lose one, you only feel disappointment, because you are so used to winning every game.

    But what if I tell you, that you probably miss out on so much fun and so many things in this game by playing this way?

    For the last 2 seasons on my main account I did take on the challenge. First season it was by accident as well, because I was testing the new youth academy and their players' quality put me in the strong league, cup and so on. But you know, I somehow enjoyed it.
    There is no better feeling in this game than winning as the underdog. Not expecting much, playing against a level higher 10% better guy in cup, who is also active and watching the game and then leading 4-0 with your well trained and tactically set-up team, while he is trying to gain control with a sub and so on.
    It's the stuff you miss out on when playing against bots. It really brings out a competitive aspect in the game, that is quite enjoyable I have to say. I'm at 131% now, the highest I have been in a longshot and I compete vs 140% guys (a level higher) in cup and CL.
    In my league is a 143% former tanker, who did win the league last season and I had no chance. Currently I'm only one point behind him and it's a classy title race.

    You just feel so much better beating the big guns compared to beating bots. And also less disappointment when you get beaten here and there by another good player. I wouldn't have thought it, I must say.
    Also it really makes you see the entire game from another perspective again and it makes you a better player, being able to adapt to your opponents. Therefor you win less trophies, but who cares... The statistics on my main team are bad anyway. And always good to beat a trophy hunter in associations then, when he has to play vs a similiar quality player.

    You know, I don't say all of you should do it. If you have fun playing the way you do, keep on. I found it nice for a while, I might come back to manipulating when I feel like it. But you might miss out on something, just saying...
    I completely agree with you here, although it is nice to have a carefree season sometimes, I like to play good teams and beat them, there is nothing better than it. I have never manipulated a draw and I never made an attempt to do it, I find it easier to not do that as I then have to spend ages on the opening day of the season buying players which I am certainly not w fan of.

    Now, I will tell you, I have played the game for fun, for under 3 years, I am coming back from another month break, but when I was on a good run in the Champions League, I was unbeaten there for 2 seasons while I won it twice, I felt at one stage in the second season’s semi finals, He was also unbeaten for 52 matches prior to me playing him. I thought that I was going to be obliterated and my title defence was going to look shameful, but no, I logged in nervously to find out I won 0-3, wow no way. I had clear daylight between myself and my opponent for the second, don’t get me wrong, he was good, He beat an even opponent like 12-4 on aggregate in the Quarter Finals, I was even to him but I expected to be bashed in that game, my assistant said a few days after that after an important title contender’s League that my team had a strong mental desire which I never heard him say before, he always said my team performed like crap whenever we drew or lost a match.

    Anyway, after that league match, I had the second semi finals game at home, I thought that they would come back but I won 3-0, no this guy was not any pushover, he was slightly stronger than me and he won 3 trophies from the previous season.

    I won the final, with my new Club Max FC without manipulating, I won 12 titles in 7 seasons including 2 Champions League titles, I had never won a Champions League before I made that account and yet I had done with really competitive teams.

    The cup went well too, I reached 4 finals in a row, winning the first 3, with decent competitors. I had fun at the time, and I think that if I was manipulating at the time, I would have been bored out of my mind.

    I won the league 4 times in my 7 active seasons. I had a few very close calls from losing the league title, well certainly not the last one because I won by 23 points., but I did no manipulation there.

    I had around an 87% win percentage or so in all the competitions I participated in those 7 seasons, I am not counting the seasons I tanked in or the competitions that I tanked out of like in season 6 obviously because I was not trying as I was on a break.

    Here is my trophy cabinet from those 7 seasons, I only played the league and cup in the last season, because I took a month break the previous season. The previous season, I was knocked out in the cup round of 16 and Champions League group stages, I won the league that season though, Yes I skipped a season but that was the on I tanked in. I will show my record before I tanked in 2 out of the last 3 seasons and before all the losses appeared due to my tanking. I will show all of the trophies I won in those seasons as well. I am proud of them because as I said, I performed no draw manipulation and I never spent a penny.

    I can’t blame those who manipulate because I would want the trophies too. I enjoyed the challenge of active competition, yes I had my rants but it was fine and I did well.

    This is my record after 5 of those seasons and before my first breaks.



    These were all the seasons that I was active in. I did take a break (half of level 6 and all of seasons 7, that is why it is repeated.

    Season 1: (I only logged in on day 19)



    Season 2: (unlucky season)



    Season 3:



    Season 4: (first ever Champions League Title )



    Season 5:



    Season 6: (image is cropped because I took a break that season)



    Season 7: (After Inactivity, I returned and won my last two trophies)



    Season 8: (On break again)

    Anyway, these photos are just experiences being a non manipulation team.

    All of my titles with my new club.



    Sent from my iPhone using by pressing the Reply button.
    Last edited by Max McClean; 02-19-2020 at 11:51 PM.

  5. #5
    Pro Sillybq's Avatar
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    Lets put it plainly. Why people manipulate?

    Common reasons

    1) Avoid + 1 competitions
    (They tell you they lower their quality only to a certain extent as they keep more players but when you see the pros manipulate, 7 negative 1 star players can bring quality very low)

    2) Tired of troll results
    (More active and strong competition will result in more trolls against bots as the engine keeps things close. While manipulating does not eliminate trolling, it definitely lowers the count)

    3) Easier to win trophies
    (It is easy to win at low levels anyway, might benefit from it more at higher levels)

    4) Recognition
    (Some very popular mid to high players are manipulating and they are respected and recognised as being good players. People judge you based on your trophy cabinet especially if you have a non tanking career which is very obvious)

    5) Save resources, attend fewer matches
    (Weak competition means less training required and your team wont need you around to dominate)

    6) Different style of play
    (If you need a break from competition or if you need a boost when life is getting you down)

    7) Break records
    (Much easier breaking streak and player records when manipulating)


    Each of us needs varying levels of competition and stress. For myself, the events and associations are sufficient for me to test my skills against high quality teams. Not manipulating just means increased trolling and game engine deciding if we should win.

    Do you really think your skills are put to the test when you do not manipulate?
    Have your well trained players always beaten newly purchased scouts or normal players?
    Do the right formations and strategies always get you the win?
    Does maintaining Superb preparation always make a difference?
    Have you never conceded the moment your friend supports you?
    Have you not lost a match only when you arrive at the scene?

    There are many more examples. It aint a perfect game so lets not try too hard to perfect people

  6. #6
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    I agree, with no to much manupilating..
    personally I keep always my basic 11 players... and sell the not needed reserves to lower the quality some..

    Because if you sell half of the team, what I read on the forum before, it takes to much time just to buy a new squad....

    So in this way I limit the time I waiting in the market to buy new players.

    But with my new team (now level 5) I got always 1 or 2 teams competing for the league.. I like exactly more teams so even if you lose 1x it is not directly costing the title..
    So every one can win from every one that is more fun and in the long run more rewarding then win almost every match with 7-0 or something

  7. #7
    Famous Ποσιδονας's Avatar
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    I agree with @Sillybq . Not manipulating draw would have some fun if
    - The draw was fair and not put you vs +1 level opponents in CL and tankers in the Cup
    - The game play had some logic and not being random so often
    - If there weren't so many cosmetic things (morale, support and ball possession, special abilities, training player bonus, formations, GK performance, game stats)
    - If the training was more interesting and skills had some connection with performance
    - If the market wasn't so crazy and negotiation would work
    Sillybq and minamino like this.

  8. #8
    Champion Max McClean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ποσιδονας View Post
    I agree with @Sillybq . Not manipulating draw would have some fun if
    - The draw was fair and not put you vs +1 level opponents in CL and tankers in the Cup
    - The game play had some logic and not being random so often
    - If there weren't so many cosmetic things (morale, support and ball possession, special abilities, training player bonus, formations, GK performance, game stats)
    - If the training was more interesting and skills had some connection with performance
    - If the market wasn't so crazy and negotiation would work
    I agree with some points that I forgot to put in my post, I would only manipulate or tank to get rid of +1 level players.

    I wrote from my point of view without manipulating.


    Sent from my iPhone using by pressing the Reply button.

  9. #9
    Moderator IImaestroII's Avatar
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    Welcome to '' hard way '' of playing guys, I'm playing with this way for years and is very very challenging , league fights till the end against equal or stronger teams, cl and cup against storng and active teams where every match is like a final. Learned a lot by playing in this way.
    But i don't advice to play like this if you are new cause it requires lot of experience before

    Why manipulating draws might actually diminish your fun-screenshot-3186-.jpg
    Why manipulating draws might actually diminish your fun-screenshot-3187-.jpg
    Why manipulating draws might actually diminish your fun-screenshot-3188-.jpg
    Why manipulating draws might actually diminish your fun-screenshot-3191-.jpg
    Why manipulating draws might actually diminish your fun-screenshot-3189-.jpg
    maloukees and Der_Ryan_M like this.

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  10. #10
    Famous Ποσιδονας's Avatar
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    but @ IImaestroII having a 138% quality team is not a free to play

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