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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: [Official] New Association Tournaments - Live Now - What's new

  1. #181
    Pro EastsiderSG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sillybq View Post
    I read alot of comments of how the new associations targets tankers. i dont quite get how it will discourage tanking. Tankers can still tank and rejoin a season later with 3x multiplier. They never used to get any tokens the season they tanked anyway. They can just tank more and get a full 11 star team to make up for the additional season in limbo.

    In fact now the opportunity cost is low for those needing a break or want to tank a few seasons. If you cant get into a diamond or ultimate association, it would only be a 40 plus tokens loss in platinum on average per season (assuming one wins enough to stay in plat). Tanking can gain us alot more from daily logins and stuff while saving alot of resources.

    I think we cannot deny the fact that we get less tokens. Players in ultimate are going to be tankers or spenders. Its is just part of their move towards more profits. Nothing wrong with that but it sucks for us. I wont spend more than i can gain from associations so probably cant go very far.

    If nik is tanking, that should be the way to go. It just shows how bad the issues are at the top of the server so best to avoid as long as possible. To me, he was and still is the most credible source of information. He encouraged saving rather than spending just to compete. The best lesson in the game is budgeting but tanking works too.
    They definitely succeeded in reducing tanking. And tankers previously had an unfair advantage in associations. All changes come at a price. We all suffer the same fate with the reduced tokens so no issue. Comes down to who manages better with the reduced tokens. I do agree that tankers will dominate in ultimate but with more work and difficulty. All it takes is an additional season to get the *3 and they can rejoin associations but at least they won't hinder the rest of us while in the process of tanking
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  2. #182
    Spanish Forum Moderator khris's Avatar
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    Depending on the draw system the war could be between those earning x3/2 and then a x1 in alternate seasons vs those having always a x3 cause of constant promotions.
    Both cases, could too, switch multies to the FAs to keep the advantadge set to the Max., advantadge from tanking/promoting, or to have the x3 with one or another account...
    (still maybe the system will prevent hard manipulations if the draws are between same Division FAs, obviously will be an important factor)
    Here the dilemma comes when we have to define what is acceptable to have a fair competition, and where is the limit. The advantadges given by some movements, that in the end, as happened with the manipulations and the 1*s. force everyone to do the same, may need some extra action like adding Loyalty Bonuses once a team stay 4 seasons inside a FA, having a x1'5 bonus to try to prevent abusive behaviors that should be tackled IMO, because isn't the same play with 1 account than play with 15 accounts per head.

    There's a problem too in a middle term with the own levels collapse, as the servers are designed to stop promoting teams at L100, and we have 220+ top servers with teams repeating levels that should be able to join the FAs, so if top 8 repeats level should be considered as promotion for the whole league.

    And btw we will see how it develps, but initially the AvQ gap should be reduced in mostly of competitions by forcing promotions 1 time every 2 seasons overall, still its a complex matter when we talk about margins, what is fair play, what should be allowed, etc...

    As said, next steps, to keep a general fair play line should include a new negos only for 18-19 aged, a +2LV cup/CL for 120% promoters and proportional events for tankers that reach the 180%, as tanking shouldn't be a guarantee of win. If I face a 130 with a 115% team, a 180 should face a 195%...
    Last edited by khris; 04-30-2021 at 08:23 AM.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by miloren View Post
    Are you sure the tokens earned every week will be multiplied according to the position in the league? The help says it is the association points, not the tokens. If it were as you say, you are right to wait until the end of the season to assess the change, but if not we will earn less no matter where you look
    Guido van den Berg is right. I never suggested in any thread that tokens earned in FA tournament would be multiplied. If anything, I only mentioned that a manager who won a top3 in league in a season would be granted a x3 multiplier for FA tournaments in the following season which increases the chance of getting more points for his association.

    It is further illustrated by my example earlier by the addition of 4x weekly T-income with various finishes to compare with expected T-income in the upcoming new system vs the old system. It is quite clear the example used is an addition of weekly income, not multiplication there.

    Regards to tanking, as a few who suggested, tankers could still try it in an alternative season mode. ie. 1 season in top 3, then rejoin the asso to get top x3 multiplier for the following season when they tank and then quit the asso in the season after next. Tankers doing this will need to have 2 acc doing alternate this, and there is no guarantee both their teams could always achieve top3 league standing in the season after they do not tank (ie. Serial tankers may not be ‘good’ enough to win league matches consistently enough with deteriorating tanker teams after not doing so for a long time, their teams promoting 20% every other season means they can no longer use old players to keep tanking but have to learn in knowing how to train younger players and improve them efficiently than relying on automatic increases in serial tanking seasons, etc.). At least serial tankers cannot tank repeatedly and continuously without stops to keep their teams or specifically a few of players at 180%+ forever (as if those players would only improve and never ever deteriorate in their whole career) to manipulate the top-100 like before.

    Seasoned-experienced managers of fighting with equal or better opposition without tanking, and to some degree manipulators (who surely did face other manipulators and tankers in draws), have way more solid tactical know-how to win top3 in leagues, in general (because they always try to play to win all 51 matches in a season vs only tanker’s 25 [when they put out tanker formation to lose 26]). That kind of game knowledge gap would hopefully be exposed from next season’s league, and hopefully some of the best non-tanking managers would beat tankers in failing to get league top3 finishes and screw those 1-in-1-out rules-exploiting planning by those gangs of 6 doing the same. (That rule, I believe, is set up to help high level managers near the top in having a fairer chance of getting a x3 multiplier, not for tankers to control multiple accounts jumping in and out regularly and systematically of 1 specific association)

    P.S. Maybe an addition rule in limiting the same team be unable to join the same association for more than once within 5-6 seasons should help plugging that possible loophole. Any association who removed a certain member with strong, valid reasons would not consider accepting the same member back into the group so soon anyway, as well as for members who decided to quit an association with long, hard thoughts of pros and cons before doing so. Most other games with association function also have this kind of rules to avoid exploitation too.
    Last edited by HeavensAAA; 04-30-2021 at 12:49 PM. Reason: Adding P.S.
    EastsiderSG likes this.
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  4. #184
    Apprentice Ludo_Mansio's Avatar
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    This is where I might look stupid... but has the ability to request training been removed? I can see how I can train with FA members, but no option to request what type of training bonus I want. Easily solved with a message in the FA chat, but just making sure I'm not missing something
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  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by khris View Post
    Tokens are delivered each week, depending on the tournament performance, you only can be 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th as usual.
    There is nothing that multiply tokens depending on your League position.
    Thanks. So the maximum number of tokens, winning all 4 tournaments, is 64 in platinum, 16x4, far from the 100 you earned for staying even if you did not finish 1st in the 4 tournaments. The cut of tokens in rewards is considerable, and liquidates the possibility of living with the tokens by associations as many of us did to be able to compete against those who use the visa.

    The only positive data is that the tanks are finished. But the tanks that run out are the ones that can be made for free, staying in the same division. If you use the visa again you have no limit.

    Let's call this update then by its name, which is not exactly "improvement", but another step in the goal of turning the game into a perfect pay to win.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by miloren View Post
    Thanks. So the maximum number of tokens, winning all 4 tournaments, is 64 in platinum, 16x4, far from the 100 you earned for staying even if you did not finish 1st in the 4 tournaments. The cut of tokens in rewards is considerable, and liquidates the possibility of living with the tokens by associations as many of us did to be able to compete against those who use the visa..
    You are wrong. You can still do this the same way, but your association needs to promote to Diamond or (even better) Ultimate to get the amount of tokens that you were used to. Or get way more if you perform well.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludo_Mansio View Post
    This is where I might look stupid... but has the ability to request training been removed? I can see how I can train with FA members, but no option to request what type of training bonus I want. Easily solved with a message in the FA chat, but just making sure I'm not missing something
    You do not look stupid at all. I cannot find a way to request a training bonus either.

  8. #188
    Addicted po_zdrach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido van den Berg View Post
    You do not look stupid at all. I cannot find a way to request a training bonus either.
    Me too....

  9. #189
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    The new system requires genuine instruction from teammates via chat to communicate on what we need and teammate adds it on.

    Should not be too hard for a 1-liner request with a 1-liner reply from each of the 3 pairings
    Winning is a form of art. Consistently winning is a show-hand of skills and luck.
    Asso tag: #29GB24 (1st level-8 team record holder) & #AAK65W (2nd level-5 team)

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido van den Berg View Post
    You are wrong. You can still do this the same way, but your association needs to promote to Diamond or (even better) Ultimate to get the amount of tokens that you were used to. Or get way more if you perform well.
    I'm afraid I'm not wrong. Apart from the asso points, which are the ones that are affected by the factor you get from your position in the previous league, the other rewards are specific. And the final reward for staying in the same division is 10 green, 10 blue and 10 red, and 20 for going up, no yellow tokens like before.

    Then, the maximum number of tokens you can get at the end of the season is 40 in gold1, instead of the 100 you got for going up, 64 in platinum winning all tournaments (4x16), instead of the 100 you got for only remain, and now finally a bit more in diamond and ultimate if you work hard. In gold1 and earlier, the robbery is armed, since even with bad results in the former one you earned more tokens managing to stay in the same division than moving up in the new being 1st the 4 weeks
    Siddharth Singh likes this.

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