Do tactics really work or this game is pay to win

[InvincibleGinger FC]

Hmm that sounds strange
Here some points I find important:
- I pay the maximum amount of money as winning bonus to my players. Personally I think that helps to motivate them
- I always play with the same tactic, 4-1-2-2-1, defensive style. I think changing the tactic too much confuses the players
- My strongest players play on AML and AMR, in my opinion the by far most important position (they score most of the goals)


…and of course the usual things than max. training bonus, max morale, good shape and so on

I have found as well that a few true and tried tactical setups works best. Win bonuses absolutely make a difference and amen on the AML/AMR. My top scorers and best performers have been always AML. I am now only on my second AML since they always stay good for so long thanks to continuous MOM awards.

[SuperDunk]

I don t have the screenshots because my phone refused to do them, but let me start on "if the game has any tactical sense"
So i played a 4-DMC-2MC-AML-AMC-AMR (later changing the DMC for a ST) against a 4-ML-MC-MR-AML-AMR-ST in the Champions challenge against Real Madrid i think.
The MC in my opponent s team got injured so he played without a MC for the rest of the game, he managed to score on me 2 goals with no midfielder.
I had down arrows for my AML-AMR to try and counter his wingers, but how did he managed to have more possesion in some part of the game than me?
I also have to mention i played through the middle and short passes.
This game makes no sense, and i sometimes wonder why i am still playing it....

[SuperDunk]

According to my experience: No

High white skills are still very important. My team has 120%, but all players have around 200% in their white skills. I win without a problem against players with 130% but no high white skills. I didn‘t notice a change since the TopEleven2021-Update.
But maybe I have just luck…

I spent 3000 greens on 3 players to lose 7 points so far in the league where i had a better rating.
All i have to say that white skills mean **** all in normal competitions, if the game wants to screw you, it will.

[InvincibleGinger FC]

Let me guess, he probably was using long passes? The absence of a MC actually increases the potency of long balls reportedly and in my experience although I haven't formally tested the veracity of that. Long ball tactics are very effective against heavy midfields although in my experience rather finicky. To make long balls work, you kind of need the correct players in the correct places with the correct drills on both the defensive and offensive line. Personally, I have never been able to produce much success against stronger teams with long balls, but I have a teammate in my association that uses it lethally to defeat +40% teams consistently. Although I can see how a team can win with long balls, I must agree that Nordeus does give a lot more possession to long ballers than makes sense.

[SuperDunk]

Let me guess, he probably was using long passes? The absence of a MC actually increases the potency of long balls reportedly and in my experience although I haven't formally tested the veracity of that. Long ball tactics are very effective against heavy midfields although in my experience rather finicky. To make long balls work, you kind of need the correct players in the correct places with the correct drills on both the defensive and offensive line. Personally, I have never been able to produce much success against stronger teams with long balls, but I have a teammate in my association that uses it lethally to defeat +40% teams consistently. Although I can see how a team can win with long balls, I must agree that Nordeus does give a lot more possession to long ballers than makes sense.

How can a team with no midfielders (DMC-MC-AMC) have the same possesion as me? I was 2-3% better in rating than him and my players were much better skill wise.

[SuperDunk]

Let me guess, he probably was using long passes? The absence of a MC actually increases the potency of long balls reportedly and in my experience although I haven't formally tested the veracity of that. Long ball tactics are very effective against heavy midfields although in my experience rather finicky. To make long balls work, you kind of need the correct players in the correct places with the correct drills on both the defensive and offensive line. Personally, I have never been able to produce much success against stronger teams with long balls, but I have a teammate in my association that uses it lethally to defeat +40% teams consistently. Although I can see how a team can win with long balls, I must agree that Nordeus does give a lot more possession to long ballers than makes sense.

We all know the engine from associations and normal competitions isn t the same.

[InvincibleGinger FC]

How can a team with no midfielders (DMC-MC-AMC) have the same possesion as me? I was 2-3% better in rating than him and my players were much better skill wise.

That's where I agree with you in that Nordeus gives too much possession to long ballers.

As for my teammate, he defeats +40% teams regularly both in association and competition matches. Not always, but regularly like probably more than 50% of the time.

[tomu741]

I just cant understand too why playing counter attacks with long ball you have more possession than oppo. After all counter attacking means that you give possession away and try to score on the break when you win the ball back.
Probably Khris is absolutely right that you should see this game not as football game but mathematical engine game. And change orders or player placement in such way that it tries to improve match scenario in your way. But it doesnt mean that those changes should be logical that you made during the match

[khris]

I just cant understand too why playing counter attacks with long ball you have more possession than oppo. After all counter attacking means that you give possession away and try to score on the break when you win the ball back.
Probably Khris is absolutely right that you should see this game not as football game but mathematical engine game. And change orders or player placement in such way that it tries to improve match scenario in your way. But it doesnt mean that those changes should be logical that you made during the match

[RaiKo]

Can you elaborate on what you mean with "rating penalty"?

As @SuperDunk had mentioned above, There are 2 types of simulation engine in the game.

1) League, Cup, CL and Super League: main parameter is total quality of player(the value inside the parentheses.)

2) Association, Events and Friendly Champ: main factor is AvQ(%) of the player.

They are working different than each other. Im not really sure how the things go in #2, but if you have a player who has minus % skills in normal season, that means he probably won't be able to show his maximum potential. There could be a hidden multiplier like new association X0 factor. When this penalty gets involved over the minus skills, Player action in a position where the minus skills are important is completely neutralized and comes to a halt. At this moment, your player may lose the versus and gets an instant rating drop(red).

It's basically a nerf unit to prevent managers from dominating game by the mutant players. That's why mutant players rarely finish their matches with 9s or 10.